Ep. 76: Lit It or Quit It: Wuthering Heights

Join Kelsey and Amanda as they delve into the chaotic world of Emily Brontë's 'Wuthering Heights,' debating whether it's an epic love story or a revenge-fueled gothic horror. Laugh along as they tackle the book's melodramatic characters, wild plot twists, and the ever-controversial Heathcliff. Spoiler: it's as messy as you remember.

00:00 Welcome to Lit Vibes Only!

00:30 Join Us on Social Media

03:11 Our Current Reads

10:22 Summary of ‘Wuthering Heights’

19:03 Book Discussion

48:50 LITerally the Best or LITerally the Worst

01:01:55 Final Recommendations and Social Media Plugs

Follow us on TikTok & Youtube @litvibesonlypodcast and on Instagram @litvibesonly_podcast. You can also email us at litvibesonlypodcast@gmail.com We'd love to hear from you!

See you on Mondays!

Transcript

Kelsey 0:05

Welcome to Lit Vibes Only, where we lit the shit out of books we love and hate. I'm Kelsey, the unhinged, diehard, romantic and fantasy reader.

Amanda 0:15

And I'm Amanda, the insightful, thrill seeker and historical fiction nerd. Welcome, welcome to our second Lit it or quitted episode for the wonderful month of February where we're gonna dive deep into Weathering Heights. But before all of that fun stuff, we want to remind you that we have some pretty great socials that you should be checking out. So we are on Instagram at Lit Vibes Only podcast, and we are also on YouTube and on TikTok at Lit Vibes Only podcast. So if you are not joining our community on those platforms, you should be. We have a great time. We share so much fun additional. Bookish content for you to engage with and respond to. So like, follow, comment, subscribe, all of that good stuff if you're not already. All those things. All those things. And if socials are not your thing, you can also get in touch with us via our email. It is lit Vibes only podcast@gmail.com. Send us an email, say, Hey, give us your feedback. Recommend books for us. We love engaging you guys in any and all the ways. Mm-hmm. And we have a new platform that we are utilizing this year, fable, which I know some of you listeners. Yes. I've already been on for a minute. We are just getting into it and loving it. So hopefully some of you have already engaged with us on that platform. Are following us? I'm lit Vibes only Dash, Amanda. Mm-hmm. Kelsey is lit vibes only dash Kelsey. And you'll see underneath our separate profiles. That we also have book clubs for the books that we're reading for our littered or quitted episodes. So yeah, hopefully you read along with us for Weathering Heights. That would've been my book club since I'm the one who chose this book. And perhaps you read along with Kelsey for Children of Blood and Bone earlier this month. But again, just a great way to meet other readers. Give us your thoughts and get hyped for the episode so you know exactly what's up and what we're gonna be chatting about today. So those are all the major platform things. And then of course, last but certainly not least, if you are still sitting out there and you haven't rated and reviewed our podcast, I literally, I don't even know what to say to you at this point, except just do it. Do it. Oh my goodness. It's such an easy, quick thing to do and has such a huge impact. For us as podcasters, especially as book podcasters, it does bump up our visibility. So if you can take a moment now, even while you're listening to the episode, to do that while we chat about our current reads. Mm-hmm. Or at the end of the episode, we would greatly appreciate it. It means so much to us and we really wanna get our podcast out to more ears, so thank you.

Kelsey 3:10

I was just, as you were talking, Amanda, I was like, wait, I actually don't. Follow your book club on Table I table. I saw

Amanda 3:17

that. I know. So I just

Kelsey 3:18

added it. I also saw that, I was like, what the hell? Because I was gonna ask you, how's the book club going?

Amanda 3:25

For Demon Copperhead? Yeah. Yeah. It's right. So I don't wanna like confuse people because again, it's January for us still pretty much the beginning of January. So our Demon Copperhead episode hasn't dropped yet, but hopefully by the time that it does, we'll have a couple more folks. Yeah. We know it's gonna take some time to get folks on board with this new thing that we're doing. Mm-hmm. But spread the word. And our goal is to give you guys at least a month in advance notice before the episode drops so you have time to read it. And also, if you've already read the book before, you can still join the book club. Yeah. Where you can still share your thoughts. So you don't need to be like, oh, I read that book ages ago. You can still hop on, share your reflections, share your predictions for whether or not you think it's gonna get a litted or acquitted out of either of us. So please don't let that keep you from joining the book club. We still wanna hear from you on that platform.

Kelsey 2.0 4:15

Definitely. And as we get moving along, you'll be able to vote on the books we read for the next month. Mm-hmm. So my book club started with Children of Blood and Bone

Kelsey 4:28

And now, like this week I'm gonna have people vote on. What to read next. I only have a few subscribers, so I'm trying to like up that so that more people can vote. But yeah, so I'll choose the variety of books and then let people vote.

Amanda 4:45

Yeah. And again, it's another way for you to have an impact and a say in this podcast and like what we're talking about Exactly. We want Exactly. We want to be covering books that you guys are excited about and not just what we think people wanna hear or what we are excited about. So again, this is a community effort and we really mean it when we say we wanna hear from you. And wanna take that information and do cool things with it. Yeah. With that said, let's talk about what we're reading right now.

Kelsey 5:13

I'm still reading Fearful by Lauren Roberts. Oh yeah. I'm almost done. But it's that book that I'm reading like before bed or in bed. Mm-hmm. So I get like a chapter or two a night. So that's why it's, it takes a little longer.

Amanda (2) 5:28

Yeah. No worries. It's sometimes it's nice to just like, I enjoy it. Yeah. Sit with a book and let it marinate and take your sweet time. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I, again, I've said this a million times, but because of the timing of these. Podcast episodes we're recording on Sundays. Always. Almost always. I usually have just finished a book on Saturday, which is the case. Yeah. So I'm just about to start yet another book. It's an audio book. And it's the Overnight Guest by Heather Guten. It is of course a thriller'cause I almost listen exclusively to thrillers and memoirs on audiobook. But this one, it's a true crime author. She's gone to this isolated farmhouse to do some writing. She gets snowed in. And at this house previously, a couple people were murdered and a girl went missing. Mm-hmm. And while she's there and snowed in. Weird things start to happen. And then this child shows up in the snow outside Creepy and things. Yeah, things un outta here.

Kelsey 6:27

That's what I would do outta here.

Amanda 6:31

So things unravel from there. I'm really excited to listen to it. I'm, again, very much still maintaining my audiobook streak, mm-hmm. And I'm loving it and I'm really proud of myself because I. I really am not an auditory processor. Not a good one. Yeah. And I feel like I'm getting so much better and I'm like working that part of my brain. That's so good stuff. Good stuff all around. Yay. Yeah. Yeah, we've got a great book to dive into today. It is Weathering Height. We'll get to you in a second. Miss Watering Heights by Emily Bronte, there's a couple of reasons why I chose this book. One is mm-hmm. It coincides with the release of the film that at this point will have just dropped. It'll have dropped. The, what was it? Come out Valentine's Day and this episode drops. Like

Kelsey 7:25

what a lovely Valentine's Day story.

Amanda 7:27

I know. So I chose it for that because I think it's gonna bring this classic book back to the forefront for a lot of people. Uhhuh. I really enjoyed reading this book. I read it over a decade ago, so it's been a long time Uhhuh, but I remember reading it, I was either in college or it was right after college, and I. Picked it up. I was really into kind of gothic novels at the time. Mm-hmm. And loved it'cause it was just bizarre and eerie. And all of the characters are a hot mess, which, I love, they're just all horrible people. Yes. And I thought it was great. I was so fascinated by these I don't even know. Hooligans out on the mos just doing crazy stuff. So I really liked that. And this book also, led me to go on to read books like Rebecca by Daphne Dimar, which I'd mentioned, and again, this is a classic, so mm-hmm. There's a lot of things you can say about the classics, both good and bad, but I think there's a reason this one has persisted. And I love supporting female authors, right? So let's do the thing from the 18 hundreds, from the 18 hundreds when they were like, not really allowed to write or had to write underneath like a male pseudonym. So all that stuff. I think I already know the answer to this question, but I'm gonna ask it'cause I have to. Yeah. Kelsey, was weathering heights a litted or acquitted for you?

Kelsey 8:52

See, this is where I think you're gonna be surprised is like, I don't really have like a judgment. It is it is like. Exactly mid.

Amanda 9:02

Okay.

Kelsey 9:03

Yes. There's not really much that I really liked, but there's not much that I hated. It was just like,

Amanda 9:08

it's there.

Kelsey 9:09

There.

Amanda 9:10

Okay. Okay. You can use my term. It's aquit, it's smack in the middle. There's really nothing the middle. Nothing to be said on either side, although we will have things to say.'cause I have things to say. We'll, yes,

Kelsey 9:21

I'll have things to say, but you don't have strong feelings. That's what it feels like. Yes. Okay. That's

Amanda 9:27

fair. Then you have the mammoth task of summarizing this book. And I say mammoth mainly because in my opinion there's a lot of characters to keep track of and a lot of them have the same name. Mm-hmm. So that's fun. Yeah. So Godspeed, so

Kelsey 9:42

I,

Amanda 9:46

oh boy.

Kelsey 9:47

This summary. Really reflects my experience with this book. Okay. Okay. I initially was like, oh my God, yeah, I need to go back. I read a different summary. Like I, I watched a video summary. Okay. Wow. Okay. So I know what happens. However, I really did want to give the readers, or the listeners rather an idea of what this book felt like to me.

Amanda 10:17

Okay. So like the reading experience. Okay.

Kelsey 10:19

Yes. My personal reading experience.

Amanda 10:21

So I would say, just to provide a little clarity. The book is mainly narrated. From the perspective of Nelly Dean, who is a housemaid, who's been caring for some of the characters in this book. But yeah, the other person's perspective who we're looking at this story through their lens is Lockwood, who has come to stay at Thrush, cross thrush, cross Grange. And so that's one house. And then there's the larger manor house, which is weathering heights. And so they're located in close proximity to each other. And essentially at the beginning of the story, it starts with the Shaw family. So we have a brother and sister. Catherine and Henley. Yes. And their father comes home one day with a young boy that he has adopted who is an orphan, whose name is Heathcliff Heathcliff. And those are the primary characters from which everything else stems from. And it's important to know that from the beginning, Katherine and Heathcliff got along and Henley and Heathcliff did not, especially because Mr. Shaw favored Heathcliff over Henley. Mm-hmm. And that's really important because a lot of Heath Cliff's choices over the course of the novel are taking revenge on both Henley and Henley's son, Harton, and also taking revenge on Edgar, who ended up marrying his childhood crush and lifelong love Catherine.

Kelsey 11:47

And I also think he's, he is punishing Catherine as well.

Amanda 11:50

Yeah, I think so. Mm-hmm. For choosing Edgar instead of him. Yes. So he's a very vengeful person and his extremely actions, like his need to take revenge really push along most of the events in this story. But this is certainly a book that I hope you've read beforehand in order to understand what happens because it is confusing, it jumps back and forth in time. There are huge time jumps and there are so many characters who are all interwoven with each other in terms of marriage and then their children, and then their children are getting entangled with each other. So

Kelsey 12:28

yes,

Amanda 12:28

there's a lot there.

Kelsey 12:31

So you'll notice that I start in the middle of the book because everything, until then, I did not know what the fuck was going on, and I had no idea who the narrator was, and I had no idea like. I didn't understand any of it. Okay. Okay. I was like, oh my gosh, this book I should probably just read over again, which I do think would help with understanding what was going on. Sure. But I was like, no. So here's my summary.

Amanda 13:03

Alright, let's do it. I'm so curious.

Kelsey 2.0 13:06

Okay. Catherine Gets engaged to Mr. Linton for his wealth. Heathcliff leaves the village, then comes back and meets with Catherine and Mr. Linton. Katherine tries to embarrass Isabella by telling Heathcliff about her feelings for him. Katherine then gets sick, she's also pregnant, and Isabella and Heathcliff run off together. They end up married, they're gone for two months or something. Then are back. Heathcliff thinks Isabella's brother made Katherine sick, so he blames him. And Heathcliff is also unkind to Isabella. He's a mean, he's a mean guy to pretty much everybody. Heathcliff goes to see Katherine and confesses his love. And they both apologize for their decisions they've made up to this point. And after that encounter Katherine gives birth prematurely and dies. Katherine's child is named Kathy, also a k Katherine, but she's called Kathy throughout the story. Isabella leaves Heathcliff and has a child of his in secret. Once she's gone, that child's name is Linton. Years later, Isabella's dying and she asked for her brother to take her child Linton from her. The brother goes to get the child and then he's immediately taken to Heathcliff because that's his son. But they get to know each other and they start writing one another letters, Linton and

Kelsey 14:39

Kathy,

Kelsey 2.0 14:40

Kathy's father finds out and she stops riding to Linton, and then he becomes ill, and Heathcliff tells Kathy it's her fault. Time passes, it feels like in this book it's one thing and then 12 years and then one thing. Mm-hmm. Two years. It's chaotic. And then Kathy goes to see Linton and Heath Cliff kidnaps her and forces her to marry Linton. And this woman Ellen, who's been narrating most the whole time. Oh, Nelly.

Amanda 15:11

Nelly.

Kelsey 15:11

Oh yeah. I actually did notice that by the end. But Ms. Dean.

Amanda 15:16

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey 15:18

But I first thought it was Ellen. Is also kidnapped with Kathy, but essentially just to go back to the story, she is telling this story of these families. So she's one of the main narrators. And she's a housemaid, so they're both kidnapped together. Kathy ends up marrying Linton by force and then Linton ends up being a shithead to Kathy as well. And Edgar is dying, who is Kathy's father. And Nelly is able to tell him what happened because eventually she is let go. But Kathy remains at the Heathcliff house and Edgar ends up dying shortly after that'cause he was ill. And then Kathy was able to see her fa father right before he died. But then Kathy is forced to live at the Heath Cliffs with Linton and Heathcliff Linton also dies, which is her husband because he was ill as well. So Heathcliff ends up with all of this wealth and because he's her guardian now, because he's her step, what is it called? Father-in-law.

Amanda 16:41

Father-in-law. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey 16:42

And then she's living in the Heathcliff house and Kathy and Harton, her Harton

Amanda 16:49

Harton.

Kelsey 16:51

They become romantic and that's how it ends, Ecliffe dies and this whole time has been like burdened by the ghost of Catherine, his one and only love. Yeah. So that was my experience of this story.

Amanda 17:08

It takes a minute as a reader to get oriented in the story as Kelsey pointed out.

Kelsey 17:12

Yeah. And the writing in general is just obviously, do you call it old English?

Amanda 17:19

No. This was published with the 18 hundreds uhhuh, so it's like Victorian English old English is you're going way back. This

Kelsey 17:29

feels like that. That's the experience I had with this book.

Amanda 17:33

That's interesting because you love Jane Aaron. It's like the same, both the same genre. Yeah. Interesting. And the same time period.

Kelsey 17:39

I do think part of the difference is that I listened to this on audiobook and yeah. Like not being able to see the words, I think made a big difference.

Amanda 17:52

Yeah. Mm-hmm. I definitely, this is not a book I would ever listen to. An audiobook

Kelsey 17:57

I do not recommend. And I didn't like the narrator

Amanda 18:02

once again,

Kelsey 18:04

but it did not make me fully hate the book. So I just feel like demon copperhead was just bad. So

Amanda 18:12

like the nar? The narrator and the book you didn't like either.

Kelsey 18:15

Yes.

Amanda 18:16

Yeah.

Kelsey 18:17

Oh, that's, it's like I do say some of the issues were with the narrator

Amanda 18:22

yeah. There's, like I said, the structure of the novel is wonky itself. The structure and the piecing, and then trying to keep track of all that and all the characters solely through audio would be a horrible experience in my opinion. I would never do that to myself, and in fact, there's a really beautiful. Illustrated version of this book that I read. It's the full text. It's not a bridge or anything, but it has like illustrations, like every, I dunno, couple chapters mm-hmm. Which I really enjoyed and added to the, probably helps. Yeah, it did. And it just added to the entertainment value and kind of the creepy, gothic horror nature of this novel. Okay. But as always, we're gonna start I feel like we've already started, but we're gonna backtrack and try and start with some positives for this book.

Kelsey 19:10

Dang. I don't know, to be honest. I dunno. Okay. I don't have a strong feeling towards anything that happened.

Amanda 19:25

Okay.

Kelsey 19:26

Or the characters.

Amanda 19:27

Okay.

Kelsey 19:28

It was just, to me it was like this shit show of a. A book. Yeah. Timeline. It was just,

Amanda 19:37

it's basically a gothic soap opera. What is

Kelsey 19:39

there to, what is there to like really, I don't know.

Amanda 19:43

I liked it because I thought it was creepy. And I know that's something we differ on.'cause I do enjoy more like horror things than you do. And, that's something I've dived into more. So I liked the gothic horror element with the ghost and just it's very atmospheric. Like I feel like a lot of books set on the Moors in the UK are very atmospheric, which I liked and I loved that these characters were absolutely insane. Like just the choices they were making, how they responded to each other. They're just like petty little jealousies and rivalries and. I loved it and I stand by what I said. It's like a gothic soap opera, because at any given time you're just like, wait, hold the phone. Who did what to who and why? Or to whom I should say it was like a soap opera.'cause your jaw's always on the floor.'cause it's like, how is this happening? This is so insane. How, yeah. So I thought there was like huge entertainment value there for me. And okay, I'll

Kelsey 20:46

get, I'll give you that. It was like somewhat entertaining, I didn't pick up on the gothic vibes. Probably there was like a comprehension issue there, because I didn't even know there was like Catherine's ghost wandering around. So I know that he went to her grave and dug her up or something. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That was gross. But it I never got like gothic vibes from this book at all. I was just like, okay, this is really, yeah. Not at all.

Amanda 21:12

What? I guess it depends, like how would you describe, got it. You should listen

Kelsey 21:17

to the audio book narrator. She does not sound at all. She's like almost peppy. Oh, interesting. Yeah. It's it. Yeah. And I think that might have helped

Amanda 21:29

with you not thinking it being like gothic at all. Yes.

Kelsey 21:32

Yeah. I recently read one dark window. Yes. And that was super gothic. Vibes. It was very dark. This one just didn't feel, it just felt like people doing dumb shit, like it didn't feel okay. Yeah.

Amanda 21:45

Yeah. I think if you have a narrator if their tone is not appropriate to the tone of the book I feel like it makes for a very bizarre reading experience. And it sounds like that's what happened because I could imagine a really great narrator really leaning into the weird, dark, eerie, slightly supernatural tone of the book. Yeah. Because it's, it is in some ways a ghost story, right? And yes. It's crazy that you weren't able to pick up on that because the narrator was like, do do, do, do. They're just out, you know, like, and the way that

Kelsey 22:22

she narrated the voices for people too. Oh

Amanda 22:25

no. Everything

Kelsey 22:26

just sounded so ridiculous. Oh no, what? And so I think it would do well if they redid the audiobook. Yeah. Because this sounds so old. It sounds like it was done 20, 30 years ago, like it sounds like a long time ago. It could be,

Amanda 22:42

yeah.

Kelsey 22:42

Yeah.'Cause it's a really old book, but I think they could nail it with different narrators and like male and female voices.

Amanda 22:51

Yeah.

Kelsey 22:51

And. It would potentially help with like comprehension, because it was just this one woman. Mm-hmm. The whole time. And I had no idea who was talking. Oh. Ever. Because it was just her voice. Mm-hmm. And I was like, okay, it'd be like two, three minutes into the chapter, I'd be like, okay, I think it's that person now.

Amanda 23:13

Oh wow. Yeah. Again, because it switches, narrators and jumps around in time and there's so many characters. Again, I don't know how you, this is all become, this is all making so much sense to me. Like it's all becoming clear and it almost makes me like, I don't know now. Now I feel like when I recommend books to you for these other acquitted episodes, I feel like I need to know what,'cause I, you almost always listen to audio books especially now like I'm, yeah. So I. I'm wondering if I need to vet the audio book first. Maybe because even like with this book with demon copyright, I'm just like, I do truly feel like you would have a different reading experience if you brought it and not listened to it. And I do wonder, especially with the movie coming out and maybe a resurgence of popularity for this text, if they will redo the audiobook. Yeah. Perhaps with a full cast. That would be

Kelsey 24:09

so great.

Amanda 24:10

That would be amazing. And like even just adding music to it as well. Yeah. I think would really add to that creepy, gothic atmospheric vibe. Yeah. That is so important to the success of this novel.

Kelsey 24:21

I should have gotten quotes just like of the way that especially Heath Cliff like talks to people. Mm-hmm. And I'm just like. It, I'm so curious what they're gonna do in the movie. Like they gotta change it because this is ridiculous. Like some of the phrases that Yeah. They're saying to each other.

Amanda 24:39

Yeah. I think from what I've seen in the trailer, it's very, it's got like this kind of surrealist element to it with the way that it's filmed. Yeah. And almost this dreamlike quality to it.'cause it does look a bit bizarre at times. It's not fully realistic. So I am curious how they're gonna reinvent it. I do think it's funny that in the trailer for the movie, like mm-hmm. It specifically says like, the greatest love story of all time. And I'm like, in my opinion, this book is not a love story. It is like, no, you can call it like a horror novel. You can call it gothic novel, you can call it super whatever. I have never been like, oh yes, Catherine and Heathcliff. I think because they are so toxic. Yes. It doesn't have any sort of like, they're never truly together. They have these moments when they're kids and then again he goes off. So you don't really see them in a romantic relationship for any length of time really. Mm-hmm. In the book. Yeah. And they are shitty to each other and everyone else in the book.

Kelsey 25:39

Yes.

Amanda 25:39

So I've always had questions about that as a reader and listeners, I don't know if you agree, but when people label this book and their relationship as like this epic love story, I'm like, did we read the same book? I like this book and it is not because I think it's love story at all. Yeah. Like

Kelsey 25:55

that. There's no way after reading that book that I would label it a love story. See, that's why at the beginning I was like, can you call it a love story? No, not really. Yeah. But yeah, I've seen so many people say that about this book. Yeah. Yep. But it doesn't emphasize the right things. No. Because really this book is about like people doing shitty things. Yeah. And it's about revenge and it's about what ha trauma, what happens mm-hmm. When you experience trauma

Amanda 26:24

Yeah. And like class differences and Yeah. Like one of the things too that we can talk about, because there's been a lot of debate about this over the years mm-hmm. Is like the race of Heathcliff, right? Mm-hmm. Because he's described as being dark skinned. Mm-hmm. And so there have been theories about what his racial or ethnic background is. Mm-hmm. And whether or not he is white or if he, like some people have put out there, like there was at this time in the UK for the setting of the book, which is the 17 hundreds. Like the mid, the late 17 hundreds, mid the mid to late 17 hundreds. Like there was still like the slave trade happening and is this Yeah. Like an enslaved boy that he happened to pick up in the market essentially and bring home. Like, where is this child from?

Kelsey 27:13

I don't think that fits with the story though, because he ends up becoming very wealthy. And like he does in very early 18 hundreds. I feel like that wouldn't have been possible for someone who was an enslaved person at some point.

Amanda 27:27

I don't know. In the early 18 hundreds. I'm trying to also think when, when the, when Britain basically ended slavery, Uhhuh.'Cause they obviously ended it before we did. And yeah, I don't know. That was just a theory that someone had put out there, but mm-hmm. There've been lots of questions, like maybe he wasn't, an enslaved individual. Maybe he was from like, I don't know, the Middle East or, a southern European country from Italy or Greece. Mm-hmm. But there's been theories like about that. And of course there's also the question of where did Heathcliff get his wealth from? Like how did he amass it? Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. And that question is never really answered in the book. Mm-hmm. He just goes away for three years and comes back insanely wealthy. Yeah. So I've always wondered about that and why Emily made that choice and how he got his money and yeah. What perhaps nefarious

Kelsey 28:20

just happened. But what we do know about Heathcliff is that he is gigantic. Amanda?

Amanda 28:26

Yes. He's a very tall, broad individual.

Kelsey 28:30

One of the, these tropes that you love.

Amanda 28:33

Yes. The big that started way

Kelsey 28:36

back in the day.

Amanda 28:37

Oh God. I like, I don't understand, I mean, it makes sense, right? Because even since I don't know, centuries before men are supposed to be the big strong protectors and the women are like the weak docile, oh, save me. That's been around for forever. So it doesn't surprise me that it's showing up in these texts, but it doesn't make it any less annoying.

Kelsey 28:57

Doesn't make any sense though. Like he didn't, there was no addition to the story for him to be like giant. Yeah, it was just a thing. So I'm like, I think it might be the same, it might

Amanda 29:10

be the same thing now, like why in so many of our romance novels and roommates say, do the men have to be this large? They don't like, he doesn't need to be six five and like massive.

Kelsey 29:18

I feel like there is a quality that people are looking for in romance novels that I think nowadays that like people like that, right? So it does add something to the story for some readers. But in this story, like you said, you and I said, it's not a romance story. It's not a romance double. He's just like this big guy.

Amanda 29:40

But I think some people, a lot of people actually, many people do see it as love story, so it makes sense, right? If we're playing into the same romantic tropes, like of course perhaps it's gonna be like the big strapping guy because it is. Catherine and Heathcliff. If you look at the list of like classic romantic relationships, like they're always there. Like they're always on the list and

Kelsey 30:01

that is wild.

Amanda 30:02

Again, to me it's wild to a lot of other people as too, but that is how this story is characterized for

Kelsey 30:09

better or worse. Do you think it was supposed to be?

Amanda 30:11

I don't think so. The thing is like when she wrote the book and when it first came out, people were scandalized because of how. Badly behaved. These characters are like, and I don't know, like I don't know that much about Emily, to be fair. And yeah, I don't know if she was trying to make this commentary.'cause especially at this time in the uk like Uhhuh, this idea of civilized, polite British society, right? Mm-hmm. This is what we all esteem to be. Yeah. And here are these wealthy individuals acting, like I said, a bunch of hooligans. So I don't know if she was like, yeah, you guys like to prance around thinking you're all holier than thou and prim and proper. But honestly, when you're left to your own devices these are the kind of shenanigans you can get up to or have the capacity for.

Kelsey 30:57

Yeah. I, yeah, I could see that being the commentary rather than it's about these two people in love. Remind me where Catherine met linton. How did she meet him again?

Amanda 31:11

Yeah and I, so his first name is Edgar. What are you talking about? Catherine or Kathy?'cause Catherine, so Catherine Shaw, but that's his last,

Kelsey 31:20

oh, his last name,

Amanda 31:22

Shaw? No. So this is where it gets confusing.

Kelsey 31:24

Yeah.

Amanda 31:24

So Edgar Linton and his sister Isabella Linton live at Thrush Cross Grange. Okay. And they're roughly the same age right. As Catherine and Heathcliff like they're contemporaries. Oh, okay. Okay. So when Catherine Heathcliff are younger, they go over to Thrush Cross Grange from Weathering Heights from their house. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And they interact with Edgar and Isabella,

Kelsey 31:52

who are, who were brother and Sister Shaw

Amanda 31:55

you said? Yeah. So Catherine Shaw and her adopted brother Heathcliff. Go over to hang out with Edgar and Isabella Linton. So those are siblings. Oh yeah. So are you So Ka Yeah. Catherine ends up with Edgar. That's they meet. Mm-hmm. Yeah.'Cause they're neighbors and she like, ends up getting bitten by their dog, blah, blah, blah. That whole story. They miss

Kelsey 32:16

all of that. I miss all of that. Didn't even know

Amanda 32:22

like you did when it happened in the book. You didn't catch it?

Kelsey 32:24

No.

Amanda 32:25

Okay. I was like,

Kelsey 32:26

seriously, Amanda, like 30% way. I was like, okay, I see that this is happening now. It was so bad. I was so bad. It took me so long. Not exaggerating.

Amanda 32:40

I'm curious to know, and listeners, this is a great opportunity for you to chime in. If you're somebody who read the audiobook, I would love to hear from you to know if you had a similar experience to Kelsey and if you're somebody who read it and had a similar experience to Kelsey. Mm-hmm. I'm curious what the breakdown is of people who like read versus listened to. Mm-hmm. And how it changed your reading experience. Because again, it is confusing, but I did not have the same level of confusion or difficulty when I was reading.

Kelsey 33:06

And I remember, reading Jane Eyre, like I've only read that book once. Mm-hmm., I did not have the same issues,

Amanda 33:13

but

Kelsey 33:13

I read it.

Amanda 33:13

But I think the difference with Jane Eyy is not only do I feel like there's a smaller character of cast and entanglements, but also it's way more linear. Like it's just as far as I remember, I could be wrong, but it's just one narrator the whole way through. You're not jumping around and everything's happening as it happened, versus I'm Nelly and I'm gonna reflect back on what happened all of these years ago. Whereas Lockwood's, like in the present and interacting with them now. Yeah. So

Kelsey 33:37

that's true. That's true. I think the structures.

Amanda 33:40

Less complicated. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey 33:41

But still the same style of writing,

Amanda 33:44

but still the same style of writing. Yes. Yeah. Which is

Kelsey 33:46

also what added to my confusion.

Amanda 33:49

Yes. And at this point, I forgot what your original question was about LinkedIn, because I was Yeah, you were. I don't

Kelsey 33:55

know. When did they meet? How did they meet? Oh yeah. So yeah,

Amanda 33:57

she, they went over there and she got Ben by a dog and yeah, they got to know each other. She realized because Hindley, her brother, Catherine's brother, hated Heath Cliff. Like he was never going to a proof of them getting together. So she's like, well, guess I'll marry Edgar'cause he's here and available and appropriate and wealthy. And wealthy. Of course.

Kelsey 34:18

She's like, I mean, if I married Heath Cliff,'cause I remember this conversation. With her and Nelly, she's like, if I marry Heath Cliff,, we'd be broke, basically, is what she was saying. Mm-hmm. And so she, she didn't want that life yeah.

Amanda 34:30

Which makes a lot of sense back then as a woman because you have no ability to get income for yourself, so you want financial security and stability. You don't wanna be in a poor house somewhere if your husband dies and leaves you destitute. So it's very strategic. And

Kelsey 34:44

that's the moment Heath Cliff heard and then leaves

Amanda 34:48

mm-hmm. For

Kelsey 34:49

the three years.

Amanda 34:50

Yeah.

Kelsey 34:51

Didn't say a thing just left. Yeah. He's like, well, you know what, I'm gonna get wealthy.

Amanda 34:56

Yeah.

Kelsey 34:57

And he does.

Amanda (2) 34:58

Yep. And who knows what he did to like, again, attain that wealth. Um, Do you have any theories? Do I have any theories? I don't. Based on his character and how ruthless he is, I do think it was something, I used the word nefarious earlier, but I do think it was something. Unsavory. I don't know whether he was involved in the black market back then and like smuggling goods if he was people. Yeah. I don't know if he, yeah, I don't know. But I don't think it was something upstanding and honorable, especially given it's terrible, the relatively short amount of time that he attained that amount of money. That too. Yeah. But yeah, I like I said, I liked it. It, to me, I would say if I had to classify this story, I would say that it is a revenge story. Absolutely. Like that to me is the primary motivator, the primary driver of the story and the plot. Yeah. So it feels I don't know if you've ever read the Count of Monte Cristo, but that is like a revenge story and. It feels very similar in that someone's coming back to take vengeance on those who they feel have wronged them. And to be fair on the kind of Monte Cristo, I think he's more justified, whereas I was gonna say, whereas C Cliff is just like a bit of a maniac. Yes, and yeah. Vicious. But yeah, that's how I would classify it. And I'm surprised that more people don't talk about it,

Kelsey 36:30

which makes for a really interesting story if you look at it just in that lens. Yeah. If you're trying to make it a love story, it's like, what the fuck? Yeah. Because no one's happy. Really.

Amanda 36:39

No one. So some folks have argued that the real love story is not Catherine, Kathy Linton. So Edgar and Catherine's daughter. It's her relationship with Harton. Like at the very end, like she ultimately finds happiness with Hinley and Francis' son Harriton, who Heathcliff has kept under lock and key and misused and abused and he's basically illiterate.'cause his dad or his not his dad. His, what would that be uncle? His uncle wait,

Kelsey 37:14

Harton is who's

Amanda 37:16

is Henley's? Yeah, it's Henley's son. So it would be his uncle. Heathcliff is adopted, so not uncle by blood, but yeah. Uncle by adoption. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So people have argued like that's the actual love story. And if people are gonna talk about any romantic relationship in the book, like that's the one that seems the most ultimately because it starts off problematic. It's so

Kelsey 37:35

silly. Yeah. Like he's like, you make fun of me. Why would I like you?

Amanda 37:39

Yeah.

Kelsey 37:40

She's like, what? No. And yeah I don't know.

Amanda 37:45

That's sort like the, again, I think where perhaps Emily's making some social commentary, because that happens multiple times throughout the books where people who are wealthier or more educated are looking down upon and condescending to those who they deem less than. Yeah. Whether it is, again, because of wealth or education level. And you see that happening and as a reader you're like, Ew, gross. How dare you treat this person this way? And maybe she was hoping her audience at the time would be like I should probably reflect on this in my own actions and how I'm treating people in my life.'Cause again, this is a woman writing this, a woman who at this time would've been like very much oppressed and, fighting for any sort of agency and autonomy. And so it makes sense that she would wanna write a text that may be highlighted to some degree, some injustices happening. Yeah. Just a thought. I don't know.

Kelsey 38:32

I saw somewhere that, throughout,'cause it, it spans different generations, right? Mm-hmm. And so it's really just, three generations. Mm-hmm. If you really think about it. And then they're like cursed through those generations. And then people talk about Kathy and Harton getting together, being like that resolution of mm-hmm. This curse of what happened throughout the families. So I've seen that take as well.

Amanda 39:01

Yeah.

Kelsey 39:02

Yeah. I mean it definitely,

Amanda 39:03

for all of the craziness that has happened in the book, it does end on a somewhat positive note. Like, Heath Cliff is finally dead and gone. And it does seem with his, Catherine, with his Catherine finally gone to be with her and they can Yeah. Haunt the mors together. But yeah, because you see Kathy Linton changing her opinions and perspectives towards Heron and them like coming together into it's it's hopeful in that people can overcome their differences, they can overcome their prejudices, they can overcome their traumatic family histories, generational trauma, and start afresh. Mm-hmm. So I think it does have a hopeful ending and in that way, maybe is like a romance story that has a happy ish ending. But again. I don't think it meets really any of the other criteria for romance.

Kelsey 39:56

No. Maybe a romance from the 18 hundreds?

Amanda 39:59

No, because there are romances from the 18 hundreds that are vastly different. But again, like a gothic novel in general is is dark and so I, yeah, I guess if it's a gothic romance yeah, I guess if you, yeah, it is a gothic romance, and so it makes sense that it's dark and tragic and bizarre.

Kelsey 40:20

Maybe, yeah,

Amanda 40:21

we might be just using the wrong romance criteria

Kelsey 40:25

to analyze this. What is it? It not, what is it called? Dark Romance. Dark Romance. It's more like those lines than any it is, if you're talking about Heath Griffin. Catherine.

Amanda 40:35

Catherine, yeah. Yeah. It definitely is more closely aligned. There's this

Kelsey 40:38

obsession with her. Yes. And you cannot leave her alone. Even when she said he like basically stalks

Amanda 40:44

her. Yeah. Desecrate her corpse.

Kelsey 40:47

Oh my God. That was wild to me. I was like, what the fuck? I know. And he's like, what? As he was telling Nelly, he's like, what's the big deal?

Amanda 40:55

Yeah. He's over here kidnapping and. Imprisoning people. Oh my God. And forcing them to get married. That was wild. It is. It is. Dark romance wild.

Kelsey 41:02

Oh my God. Yeah. And even when Heathcliff is about to kidnap Kathy and Nelly and he slaps or hits Kathy. I was like, what the fuck?

Amanda 41:13

I know what's there's violence, there's abuse, like

Kelsey 41:17

there's everything.

Amanda 41:19

It's all the dark parts of humanity on display for us to see

Kelsey 41:24

for real and

Amanda 41:24

ponder. Yes.

Kelsey 41:26

I'm curious, I have a question for you.

Amanda 41:28

Oh boy.

Kelsey 41:28

Thinking about all of the events of the timeline, do you think there's one decision, like a character could have made differently that would've like really changed the outcome of the story?

Amanda 41:41

The really obvious one is that Heath Lip and Katherine got married versus Edgar and Katherine,

Kelsey 41:48

but do you think they would be happy if that had happened?

Amanda 41:54

I think they would've tormented each other, you know what? Exactly. Exactly. But it's so interesting, right? Because, there are these couples who do love each other, but you watch them together and you're just like, I don't get it. Yeah. Look miserable. Like they, yeah. I don't know. So I feel like it'd be one of those relationships where it's like they are drawn to each other's toxic traits, and so it works somehow. Yeah. But it's not healthy, like it's not a healthy relationship. Yes. But I think they would have lasted, I think,

Kelsey 42:33

yeah. I don't think like in, in general for Heathcliff or Catherine that they would have had. Like positive relationships in their lives. I don't think that was in the cards for them.

Amanda 42:45

No. Especially

Kelsey 42:46

romantic relationships.

Amanda 42:47

No. They both have such obsessive tendencies and personalities. Yes. I, yeah. Without some like massive intervention in like growth and self-awareness, I don't think they have the, because neither Katherine nor Heathcliff for the duration of their respective lives have any healthy relationship. I can't name one. I'm like, who does Heathcliff have a healthy relationship with? Who does Katherine Shaw have a healthy relationship with?

Kelsey 43:18

What was her, I didn't get a good grasp on what her relationship with Edgar was.

Amanda 43:24

It just seemed like she married him for convenience, but mm-hmm. There was nothing there, like mm-hmm. I don't think she had any real feelings or consideration for him.

Kelsey 43:34

And felt neutral though, right? Like it wasn't like, yeah, I don't think,

Amanda 43:37

I don't think they were actively making each other miserable in the way that Heathcliff was making his wife Isabella miserable. Yeah. So I think for her, maybe it's a bit more toned down. And that could have also been just the fact that, she was a woman and of the time and, just maybe didn't act out as much or had as much leeway to act out. But I wouldn't say that her relationship with Edgar was like positive. I think it just was.

Kelsey 44:02

Mm-hmm. And Nelly was like the gossip

Amanda 44:05

I mean, To be fair, I think Nelly's credit, she is the only parental figure for a lot of these individuals that mm-hmm. Showed them any sort of Kindness, care provided wisdom and guidance. Like every other person in this novel who was a parent at one time or another, just failed miserably in their duties. Yes. Except, I guess maybe Isabella when she was alive, taking care of Linton. Mm-hmm. Heath Cliff and her son maybe, but we don't see that. Yeah. Shithead or like sickly bratty. Linton

Kelsey 44:43

shithead. Yeah.

Amanda 44:45

I

Kelsey 44:45

think he was he turns out to be that.

Amanda 44:47

Yeah. And I'm sure his mom probably spoiled and coddled him in London and

Kelsey 44:52

maybe, yeah.

Amanda 44:53

Yeah. And then he, yeah. But yeah they're literally the epitome of a dysfunctional family, community. Really like community. They're all, at this point, they're all family.'cause they've all intermarried. So I can, I feel like I could just label them all As, except Nelly. Except Nelly and Lockwood.

Kelsey 45:08

Yeah. That guy.

Amanda 45:09

Yeah. Who like, it's interesting because at the end of the novel he expresses interest in getting with Ka Linton. Because he sees how miserable she is and is like, maybe I could marry her and save her. So

Kelsey 45:22

be the savior.

Amanda 45:23

Yeah. Yeah. But

Kelsey 45:25

I have another question for you. Okay.

Amanda 45:27

Okay.

Kelsey 45:27

And it doesn't, obviously, when I say favorite or least favorite, it doesn't have to be because they're likable, obviously, because I don't, yeah. The characters are not

Amanda 45:38

likable.

Kelsey 45:39

So let's start with your like, favorite character and then tell us why

Amanda 45:45

Oh, this is hard. I'm like looking at the characters right now. I guess I would say my favorite would have to be Heathcliff, right? Like he, and again, not'cause he is likable in any way, but because he is the linchpin to this whole enterprise, he is the reason that things happen and because of his bizarre vengeful actions, the revenge, the story is so twisty and wild. Mm-hmm. So he gives this story the he, it's his story, right? It's Heath cliff story. Yeah. So, he would be my favorite. And then I was gonna say the

Kelsey 46:23

same thing. Yeah. He's so chaotic and like awful.

Amanda 46:26

He has a chaos agent. Yes.

Kelsey 46:28

And yeah. But you understand his actions. You're like, oh yeah, I guess like you're crazy enough to want revenge in this way. Which again.

Amanda 46:37

Makes me think about'cause again, he was adopted as a young child, but I'm like, what happened to you before you were adopted? Oh, for real? What is your story and why are you the way you are? I feel like there's something there. And you could create a spinoff novel that gives us the background for Heath Cliff. Just like White Sargasso Sea gives us the background for Bertha from, I think her name is Bertha, from Jane Eyre. The wife in the attic who's been locked away. That's her story. It's actually really great. You should read it. Oh, and it's a modern book. It was written I think in like the seventies. Yeah. So it wasn't written back in, in the 19th century, but Okay. I would be curious for someone to write. Yeah. Like even if it was like a novella of what was Heath clips like before he showed up? At Weathering Heights.

Kelsey 47:25

Yeah. Because I think it would be interesting.

Amanda 47:27

Yeah. And I think it would give us more insights into some of the choices he makes as an adult and his insecurities and Yeah. Why he acts the way that he does. Yeah. And then I, interesting. I think my least favorite character, my least favorite character, I think would probably be Linton. Oh my God. Saying this because he's just a whiny, annoying, sickly, just ugh boy

Kelsey 47:48

child.

Amanda 47:48

Yeah, what are you go away. Like he's like a little fly. You just wanna swat away or a mosquito. So annoying. And again, to give him some grace, he had a tough upbringing, he was, he is sick. His dad wanted nothing to do with him. He was living off with his mother. Then his mother dies, he has to go back. His dad doesn't really want him. And he's abusive. And he's abusive. So I do wanna be like, okay you did get Delta. Poor hand of cards, but I didn't, he drove me crazy,

Kelsey 48:13

I would say the same thing. Yeah. We're aligned with it that way. Yes.

Amanda 48:17

Same favorite and least favorite. Yeah.

Kelsey 48:20

Anyway.

Amanda 48:21

Alright, is there anything else you wanna add before we get to our reviews?

Kelsey 48:26

No, I think we talked about what I wanted to.

Amanda 48:28

Okay. I thought it was gonna be like a flat out quit it based on some of your comments earlier. So I, I'm I will take that. It was like an in-between. Yeah. And it's something different that we've done on the podcast. This is our first mm-hmm. Real classic quote unquote novel from the canon that we've read. So it will be interesting to hear from other folks too. And yeah, we're gonna hear from some other folks now for are literally the best or literally the worst segment. Yes. We are gonna read some five Star and one star reviews from Good Reads. I've got Five Star since I was the one who forced Kelsey to read this, and Kelsey's gonna read some one star reviews, so they were

Kelsey 49:07

so fun to read through. It was hilarious. So the first one I have is from Chelsea.. I've tried it three times. I know people are obsessed with it. I hate everyone in the book and I just don't care about a book where I actually hate the characters and Sure. I get the interpretation that as terrible as Heath, cliff and Kathy are, it's their love that redeems them. And isn't that romantic? No. That's it. Okay.

Amanda 49:40

Yeah. I would definitely say if you are somebody who likes to read books with likable characters, you will hate this book. Yeah, totally. It is not for you. Mm-hmm. If you don't mind crazy, messy, bizarre characters, you might really love it, but mm-hmm. Yeah, none of them are likable. It makes

Kelsey 49:57

for interesting stories.

Amanda (2) 49:59

It makes for an interesting story.

Amanda 50:00

So I've got two short and too long. So my first one is a long one. This is from Margaret M five Tormenting and Passionate Stars for a reading experience like no other, because never have I read a book that altered my emotions so many times. In one book, my feelings moved in waves between compassion and despair. Admiration and loathing pity, but always regret victims or tormentors. That's for you to decide. For me, weathering Heights is an epic and timeless classic that has everything obsession. Greed, revenge, grief, emotional abuse inequality, and even light horror. Everything except the thing most associated with this story and my opinion. This is not a love story. It is the most beautiful love story that never happened, and in that lies the tragedy and the power of this book. It is a sobering waste of life and love as the cruelty and selfishness of the characters shape their own story against the rigidity of an intolerant class system that pretty much predestined their fate anyway. Yet the unbreakable bond that existed between the two main characters sees them pursue each other, but always when it was too late with a haunting realization that this self-destruction is set to continue into the next generation as the sins of the parents threaten to live on through the children with the same cruelty and brutality they heaped on each other. A brutal yet passionate story, a story about love, desire, and obsession, both ugly consequences made all the more intense for its Victorian England setting. In fact. Victorian realism at its best, raw, rigid, unforgiving, and profoundly devastating. And I ended it there'cause it went on and on. But I like if I wrote a review about this book, that is what my review would say almost word for word. There I go. And yeah, it's not a love story. It could have been one, but it wasn't.

Kelsey 51:53

Okay. This one was also really long and I had to cut it. Okay. Because they went on and on, but this is from Madeline and it just says bad stuff. So she's gonna go over like the bad stuff in the book. Mm-hmm. She had a section for good stuff, but I was just like, yeah, let's just cut that. Okay. I cannot, for the life of me understand why anyone thinks this is a love story. It's a horror story of love and passion gone horribly wrong. And Heath Heathcliff is one of the greatest villains ever created in literature. Notice I said villain and not anti-hero. Heathcliff is not an anti-hero. He is a sociopath. And for the last 50 pages of the story, I wanted to violently murder him so badly that my hands were shaking as I held the book. He is evil. Kathy doesn't get my sympathy either. She was spoiled unfeeling bitch during every moment she was present in the story. And it's only because she was dead by page 200 that she didn't make me as angry as Heathcliff did. She simply didn't get enough time. But let's go back to Heathcliff. I cannot outline here all of the evil things he did over the course of the story. And to do so Would probably be to give away spoilers. Let me just say this. I now understand completely why Weathering Heights is being advertised in bookstores as Bella and Edward's favorite book. It should be, as I said in a comment on one of my statuses, Edward Colen is good, but Heathcliff wrote the fucking book on domestic abuse, thinly disguised as love, and I'll leave it there.

Amanda 53:37

Yeah, that definitely has come up before, and it came up in some of the reviews that I was reading as well, so that

Kelsey 53:43

wild.

Amanda 53:44

Yeah, and I agree. Heathcliff is a villain. Yeah. Like he's not a good person. I

Kelsey 53:50

don't think um, but a lot of people are like fingering or fan like, you know? yeah. Because I don't wanna say I don't wanna generalize that, but Yeah. Over him and, yeah. And even like the movie, right? Yeah. Like they put in this this perceived sexy guy as he Yeah. Jacob

Amanda 54:07

Lordie, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kelsey 54:08

And on purpose.

Amanda 54:10

I think also, obviously Hollywood is very strategic and they know that right now, like the whole shadow daddy, dark brooding male Yes. Morally gray, questionable person is like all the rage right now. And so they know, crafting a story that can lean into that is gonna do well for them. And I think that's very much what we're gonna see in this movie is that Oh, absolutely. Keith Cliff is gonna be like, yeah, he's gonna be a shadow daddy. And I don't, I have, I

Kelsey 54:39

don't a shadow daddy that doesn't have a good side.

Amanda 54:43

Yeah, exactly. I think they're gonna give him one. I think they're gonna find ways in like the directing and the script to. Make him less evil because otherwise the movie doesn't work. So curious, like if you're gonna build this as a love story mm-hmm. And are like basically word for word following this book, it's not gonna resonate I don't think with a modern audience either. So they're gonna have to humanize him somehow. And I think that just from the clips I've seen from the trailer, I think that's exactly what they're gonna do. Mm-hmm. They're gonna make him more sympathetic and again, yeah. I do like giving characters Grace. Like I said, Heath Cliff's been through it. Yeah, even before he showed up to Weathering Heights, so maybe it's not a completely bad thing, but anyhow.

Kelsey 55:26

Okay. I'm so curious about the movie. I Yeah, because it's coming out in theaters, right? Yes. It's not just a, okay.

Amanda 55:30

Yeah. Yeah. So my next one's super short. This is from Katie Lumsden, as brilliant on the 11th reading as on the first. A brilliant, dark, complicated, and wonderful story, and one of my favorites of all time. I just completely adore it. I have not read this book 11 times. I don't know if I'd want to, but I do think it's complicated and dark and brilliant and I do enjoy it so

Kelsey 55:56

well. There you go. Okay, I have two more left. The second to last, from DAF Pink, it's a short one. How to Win Over a Girl, one, go down on your knees and say, be Mine or else. Spoilers. Two, wait for both of your spouses to die, and then force both of your kids to marry each other as part of your decade long revenge plan and gain control over everything. Rest in peace. Catherine.

Amanda 56:28

That's all. It's, he's definitely planned the long game with this one. That is real. For sure. For real. The dedication.

Kelsey 56:35

The

Amanda 56:35

dedication, we definitely don't wanna overlook that this man was. Motivated and persistent. Alright, my next one from Jake. I first read this in AP English Literature, senior year of high school. This book is dense and thick and confusing, and with a class full of haters, it was hard to wrap my head around it. I subsequently read it three or four more times for classes in college and every time I read it, I loved it more. I always found some new. Fascinating piece of the story I had never picked up on the last time I read it. I suddenly realized that there were many hints and clues that Heathcliff could in fact be black, a quick shot at research into Liverpool where Mr. Earshot found the urchin shows that it was home to a thriving slave trade. This theory completely changes the story, in my opinion Or the thought someone brought up in our seminar on the Bronte. What if Nelly is in love with Heathcliff and subsequently altered how she told the story? You do find Nelly to be coincidentally involved in many key scenes throughout the text. What if she isn't the good guy? Most readers assume she is. Weathering Heights is one of the quintessential novels in history. There's nothing else you can really say about it except that it is one of the best pieces of writing to ever be created. It's just that incredible. I do like this, like that kind of praise theory of Nelly being an unreliable narrator.'cause that was a huge thing back and like Victorian England in terms of the literature. And I'm like, Ooh, if you do follow that train of thought, that could lead to some pretty interesting conclusions.

Kelsey 58:10

I don't know that I. I, yeah, I

Amanda 58:13

think she is a reliable narrator, but in a, what if we're all hypothetically, I'm like, yeah, it would make sense if she, but why would she make Heath Cliff the villain if she was in love with him? Wouldn't she make Catherine villain? Villain? That's what

Kelsey 58:24

I'm saying. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Catherine would

Amanda 58:25

be, Catherine is also shitty in this book too. Yeah. But not as much as Heathcliff

Kelsey 58:30

mm-hmm.

Amanda 58:31

Yeah.

Kelsey 58:32

Interesting.

Amanda 58:33

Yeah. Unless she was mad. Yeah.

Kelsey 58:34

cause what would she get out of making him the villain?

Amanda 58:37

But maybe she was mad at Heathcliff because he wasn't in love with her, and so she's like, yeah, I'm just gonna make him out to be this really horrible person.

Kelsey 58:44

But also Nelly was an adult the entire time, right? Like throughout their childhood.

Amanda 58:51

Yeah. She was old. Yeah, she was older than they were. So

Kelsey 58:54

that would be weird too. It was a little bizarre. Okay. My final one star review comes from Ben. I stopped at page 42. I couldn't stand the writing. Not only was it difficult to decipher, call me dumb if you must, but sentences, even paragraphs that could have been summed up with a few words were expounded upon pompously for pages. This is a shame because I love dark love stories and that along with what I had heard about this novel, strong character development and its generally strong reputation, made me think I'd love it, but I can't take any more of the PS and I'm too bored with a d. D and too distracted with lack of patience to continue. Just can't do it. This is what got me. I'd be like, what are they saying? Oh, okay, so she left, but it's not clear.

Amanda 59:54

Here's the thing that I do not understand though. About you and this person who just read the review because he was like, yeah, it's hard to decipher. And she spends pages like, expounding on whatever small thing. And I'm like, that happens all the time in Jane Aaron. It's why I do not like that book. She will spend pages going on and on about the most minuscule thing. And I'm like, can we pick this up? Can we move it along? But you love that book. And I'm just like, this is so interesting. I don't, yeah. I don't know. I think they have very similar writing styles.

Kelsey 1:00:23

I also though read that so long ago.

Amanda 1:00:27

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey 1:00:27

I don't know. It's,

Amanda 1:00:29

yeah. Interesting. One is

Kelsey 1:00:32

I'm chaotic and I'm, and Samantha.

Amanda 1:00:35

It's okay. We love it. Okay. Last five star review from l Emily Bronte had no right to make this book so good. Weathering Heights is not a romance no matter how many times Stephanie Meyer tried to sell us otherwise in the Twilight Saga. But it is a love story, albeit a very distorted one. Bronte's erudite command of the English language shines through as she weaves poetry within her prose to create one of the most devastating emotionally complex stories of all time. This book should not be read as a romance, but rather a story of deeply complicated and unlikeable characters and their relationships. Bronte uses them as vehicles to explore the boundaries and intersections between infatuation love and lust. Unlike most classics and books, she does not shy away from thoroughly depicting some of the most monstrous characters in literature, what they love, what they hate, how they love, how they hate. That in itself is a literary triumph and feet. Yep. Yep. Yep. And again, I think, I don't disagree. I don't either. And I think, again, whatever concept you have of a book or like preconceived notion you have of a book before you read it, is going to vastly impact how you interact with, respond to a text. And if you're like, mm-hmm. Yes, this is gonna be a love story. And then you read it and you're like, have UTF. Yeah. You're gonna, you're gonna be very confused. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Kelsey 1:01:54

Well, final recommendations,

Amanda 1:01:57

Final recommendations. I of course, am gonna recommend this book only to people who understand that this is not a love story and for people like myself who love people behaving badly because it is chock full about Fair. Yeah.

Kelsey 1:02:12

Yeah. I'm still in the middle. I don't know who to recommend this to. But yeah, it's a classic. So I feel like sometimes. It's almost nostalgic, even if you haven't read it before mm-hmm. To read these books. Mm-hmm. And I think it's worth reading mm-hmm. To be in the know. Yeah. But you might not enjoy it and that's okay. Yeah.

Amanda 1:02:35

And I would say the other thing too, along those lines is reading classic literature can be helpful because everything influences everything else. And this book has had a huge impact on other authors and other texts. And so it's cool to trace those through lines. You can read it for that reason as well. You might see the connections between what you're reading now and 2026 and this novel from the 19th century. Yes. So we do wanna hear from you guys. We wanna know your thoughts on this book and your thoughts on the movie now that it's out. Oh my. How they hold up to each other. Amanda, we're gonna have

Kelsey 1:03:05

to plan, we're

Amanda 1:03:06

definitely gonna have Friend date. Yes. We're gonna do a book, best book, bestie Date to Weathering Heights. Maybe we'll put some of that info on our socials and do a little recap. Mm-hmm. So in order to have access to that and to share your thoughts, you need to be following us on socials. So we are on Instagram at Lit Vibes only. Podcast and we are on YouTube and TikTok at Lit Vibes only. So make sure that you, it's only podcast Lit Vibes only podcast. Thank you so much. I also started, the reason why I stopped is'cause in my head I was like, oh, I did socials at the beginning. Kelsey should be doing you like in

Kelsey 1:03:42

head. Yeah, in my head I was like, ah. So Kelsey, do you wanna pick

Amanda 1:03:46

up from there and tell them the rest of it? Its great.

Kelsey 1:03:49

Always remember to rate and review. If you haven't done so yet, if you've done it on Spotify, go over to Apple and do it. Yes, it's great. Yep. Double dip. And then we're also newly on Fable. This will be the second month that we're on Fable now, and you can find Amanda at lit Vibes only Dash, Amanda and Kelsey at Lit Vibe only Dash Kelsey. We really wanna see you over there and that will be, yeah, I'm gonna stop using Good Reads. I think Amanda, you're gonna still use Good Reads. Yeah. But I'm dropping it and that's where you'll mostly find my book updates and what I'm currently reading. I love the feature. Have you seen Amanda, where, and I promise this is not like an ad, we're not sponsored by Fable. I love the feature where you can tell it. You read today.

Amanda 1:04:38

Yeah. You can track your reading streak.

Kelsey 1:04:39

Track your reading and that's so fun. I love that aspect.'cause then you get a calendar of what books you read each day and that's really fun.

Amanda 1:04:48

I have not been using that feature. I keep seeing my log and I'm like, oh, it's just like one more thing for me to remember and I don't think I'm gonna be able to keep up with it, but I do like it. Love. I like that it's an option for folks and I know things like that can be a huge motivator for people to Yeah. Keep up with their reading. Just like with Duolingo, it's like I don't wanna lose my streak, but I'm gonna read regardless and I don't really.

Kelsey 1:05:10

Yeah,

Amanda 1:05:11

need it. But I do think it's a great feature for sure. So yeah, come hang out with us on our socials. Come hang out with us on Fable rate and review. And again, if you are not on socials, you can find us at our email address, which is Lit vibes only podcast@gmail.com. Mm-hmm. Let us know what you think, in general, what you think of this episode. Let us know your recommendations. We always wanna hear from you guys. Yeah, thank you so much for hanging out with us once again and we will see you next Monday. See ya. Bye. Bye.