Lit Vibes Only

Ep. 73: Lit Authors: Samantha Markum

• Lit Vibes Only Podcast

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Join Kelsey and Amanda on as they interview YA Romance author, Samantha Markum, about her new book 'The Roommate Arrangement.' Discover the challenges of writing complex characters, the intricacies of publishing, and how fanfiction shaped her writing journey. Plus, enjoy discussions about Stranger Things, favorite literary influences, and the chaotic fun of writing a good liar.


00:00 Welcome to Lit Vibes Only!

00:31 Follow Us on Social Media

01:40 Introducing Our Special Guest: Samantha Markum

02:08 Our Current Reads 

09:20 Interview

17:15 Influential Books and Authors

56:52 Lit It or Quit It: Rapid Fire

01:02:10 Wrap-Up and Social Media Plugs


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See you on Mondays!

Kelsey:

Welcome to Lit Fives, only where we lit the shit outta books we love and hate. I'm Kelsey, the unhinged, diehard, romantic and fantasy reader. And I'm Amanda,

Amanda (2):

the insightful, thrill seeker and historical fiction nerd. We are. Extra excited, super thrilled over the moon. Yeah. For our very first lit authors episode, we've got a special guest with us. We are so, so excited to be here. But before I get carried away like I always do, we want to direct you to our socials. So if you have not already, make sure to head over to Instagram and find us at Lit Vibes Only podcast. You can also find us on YouTube and TikTok at Lit Vibes only podcast. So follow, comment, subscribe, all of the good things we wanna hear from you. We wanna know what you're reading, what's up, what you'd like to hear from us on the podcast. And if socials are not your thing, you can also email us. So shoot us an email at Lead Vibes only podcast@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you on that platform as well. But most importantly, if you are sitting out there, especially if you've been listening to this podcast for a while and have not yet rated and reviewed us, we kindly request that you do that. Promptly do it. It only takes a second to hit that five star rating. And if you've got a little bit of extra time on your hands stay, you could stick around for a minute or two and write us a full review on Apple Podcasts. Or you could comment on Spotify on this episode. Let us know what you think. Say hey to our special guest today. So please, and thank you. So we're really excited we have an amazing author with us today, our very first. So welcome to Samantha Milestones. Mark. Hello. Hello. Welcome. We're so glad that you're here. And hi. Hi. Sorry, am I allowed to unmute? Supposed to respond. I was like, yes, you may. We told Samantha to mute at the top of, at the top of the episode. So yes, you are now out of Mute Jail. Welcome. Welcome. We're so excited to learn more about you and this book that is getting released tomorrow, but we are going to first chat about what we're currently reading. It's what we usually do at the top of Oh yeah. These episodes. Since you're our guest, Samantha, would you like to go first and let us know what you're getting into?

Samantha:

So I have to laugh so hard because I at the time that we are recording this like everybody else, I feel like in the romance community, I am reading heated rivalry.

Amanda:

Oh, I dunno. Which

Samantha:

I don't know if you're watching heated rivalry, I had to look it up. I was like, you know that, you know this author's name, but as we discussed right before we came on mm-hmm. And you asked who wrote Hunger Games and I almost said Susan Elizabeth Phillips. I didn't wanna do that again. So it is Rachel Reed and it is about rival hockey players who are also in love. So the show is now airing, on HBO. I just watched a second episode today, which felt I was kinda like, I steamy, I hope my neighbors aren't home. Yeah. And it's been, I feel like a big topic in the group chats, so I have been, oh, I've been reading that. I was like, I finished second episode. I was like you gotta know what happens next. Wait, is it like am supposed to series. Ours. Yeah. Oh, okay. So the book is part of a series and then the show is also a series. Yeah, the show. Got it. Got it. Yep. And it comes out week by week. So we're getting back to our roots of like having to wait. Oh, television.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Samantha:

We

Kelsey:

got so spoiled.

Amanda:

I know actually Kelsey and I both just binged the first set of like season five Stranger Things, episodes. Oh, stranger Things. Me too. Yes. Yeah,

Samantha:

I, you know what? I'm so glad because I feel like I've been waiting, my best friend has not watched yet. I keep being like, have you watched, have you started? And she keeps being like, no, not yet, but I'm going to. I swear I'm going to you. And I feel like everybody in the world is watching Stranger Things except the people that I know. Oh, no. I go into every group chat I have. I'm like, is anybody, has anybody watched this? And the answer has been no. So I'm so relieved to be here.

Amanda:

We're so glad you're here. We can just make this a Stranger Things episode and just do a deep dive. I get some theories out there. Can

Samantha:

we just, for real, the Midseason finale

Amanda:

of show. Oh my God, that show so good. It's so

Samantha:

good. So good. I was like, every meme you've ever seen that's just like hand over the mouth completely in shock. Like the koala with the leaves in its mouth, like just staring. That was me. I get so

Amanda:

nervous when, series or shows get to like the fifth, sixth, seventh season. Mm-hmm. I'm like, it's not gonna be good anymore. And this show, in my opinion, and that my humble opinion, it has been consistently good. Like I, it's still, it's just as hooked.

Samantha:

Even if you go on Reddit, which is like historically the worst place to. Go to get an opinion you can be like, what's the most boring season? Or what's the most boring plot line? Or whatever. And everybody's like, there are no boring seasons. Mm-hmm. There are a couple plot lines that are a little bit boring, but it like clears up real fast. Yeah. Everybody's on the same page. We all love it. Yeah.

Amanda:

Yeah, exactly. And I won't spoil anything, but I will say that one kind of controversial plot line where she goes off to like Chicago yeah. I feel like they redeemed it a bit. You know? I agree. In this season. And I was like, okay. I like what you did. I totally agree. Yeah. Oh, okay. We're gonna, we're gonna refocus. Okay. So what are you watching

Kelsey:

or reading this, what we've turned this into.

Amanda (2):

I can go next. I'm currently reading and this is gonna be so out of order for our listeners. So listeners we're recording this right after. Our December episodes, but this isn't dropping until January. So I, the end of January, just gave the end of January. So I mentioned a previous episode that I was starting play Nice by Rachel Harrison, which is a horror novel and I'm about three fourths of the way through it. And Sam, I'm like. Just dipping my toes into the water of horror.'cause I love Okay. Thrillers, especially psychological thrillers and suspense and mystery. And I'm like, I think there's there's some overlap there. So I'm like, for sure. Diving a little bit deeper into the horror side of things. I'm really loving it. I'm loving it here. Yeah. It's I can handle scary books much better than I can handle scary movies for sure.

Samantha:

The, I feel like the jump scare of a scary movie Yes. Is what makes them so, and being able to see it in front of you. I'm like, I'd rather imagine what Michael Myers looks like. I don't need to see him.

Amanda:

I am a hundred percent the same way I jump and startle at everything. Whereas like this, I don't know, it doesn't have the same impact. It does make you feel it's eerie. Gives you a creepy vibe. Maybe I did close my closet door last night'cause I'm like, it looks really dark in there.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Amanda:

But overall,

Kelsey:

It's been great. So what are you reading, Kelsey? The one book that did that to me because I don't like horror. And I get freaked out really easily. Was The Passage by Justin Cronin?

Amanda:

Oh yeah. I was like yeah. Is funny because it's not, I don't think it's Bill as, have you read The

Kelsey:

Passage by Sam? I haven't. Ugh. It's Do you know Justin Cronin? No, I don't. Okay. Yeah, he writes really lengthy and intense but they are horror.

Amanda:

It's, I find them scary, but I don't think you'd find them in the horror section. I'd have to look,

Samantha:

I have a low, I have a very low threshold for scary too. So if you're saying like, it's scary, I would believe you. I like slept with the lights on until I was 14. I'm like, holy, I'm the biggest scary can.

Kelsey:

I'm very much the same. So with you saying that though, Amanda, I'm curious if I would be interested. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see if I'll branch into horror ever. But yeah, this

Amanda:

was horror ish, light ish. We'll talk more, we'll talk more.

Kelsey:

So I'm currently reading a TJ Clune book the Bones Beneath My Skin. And this is gonna be also out of order'cause I'm pretty sure I talked about this. You did last episode as well. So

Amanda:

Yeah,

Kelsey:

we are,

Amanda:

Not last episode for our listeners. Last episode that we recorded. Episode

Kelsey:

we recorded.

Amanda:

Oh, jumbled. Yeah.

Kelsey:

Yeah.

Amanda:

We love TJ Klu. Have you read the House in the Il Sea?

Samantha:

I, as I maybe told you before we started recording, it's all the big books that I, I have a good friend who loves that book so much. Mm-hmm. And she maybe will listen to this and be like, I've been telling you to read this. I told you, you wouldn't be embarrassing yourself if you just listened to me. But no, I have not read it. It's on my list like everything else. It's on my list, my very long list that I will wonder, get to. Yeah.

Kelsey:

What I will say though is the audio book, oh my god. For that book. Totally enhances your experience. Oh, really? So audiobook is totally where to you should go. Okay. And maybe that might be easier. I might I to bastar with the audiobook.

Samantha:

Yeah. Yeah. That tends to be my medium.

Amanda:

So it's so good. I read the first one and then Kelsey listened to it and was like, it was amazing. So then I listened to the sequel on audiobook and I was like, oh, I get it. This is fantastic. So one narrator does all of the voices. Oh, it's so great. Oh, I love that. I do. It's wildly talented. Yeah. Such a great audiobook. 10 Outta 10 recommends. Okay, well let's like do the thing. We are so excited to get to know you a bit better and just your process as a writer. This new book that you're gonna be, it's gonna be on shelves literally the day after this episode drops. Yes. So we're just gonna dive right in. Okay. And start with how are you feeling as you're, gearing up for this next release?

Samantha:

So this book, this is the longest gap I've had between books coming out up until now. I've been a year, like a spring, summer, my first book was like April, then it was March, then it was June. And this is like the longest gap I've had between a book, between book releases. And I was like, we're golden. You've got so much time to get everything done. You're not gonna feel rushed. All your promo's gonna be done. Like you're gonna do it months in advance. And here we are December, and I'm like, I feel like the minions in Despicable Me when they're all running in different directions, running into each other. I feel like that's everything going on in my brain. It is very overwhelming. It really is. The thing of I feel like when you feel you have more time, you put everything off. Mm-hmm. Even more. Yep. Because I feel a little stressed. But I'm very excited. I'm really excited that it's done. I think the process of writing it was also very different from any other book I've written and. Being able to be like, it's done. You can't touch it anymore. Like you've done everything, you've tweaked every little tiny word that you wanted to tweak. Yeah. And you are now finished. Feels very nice.

Amanda:

So I can just

Samantha:

imagine

Amanda:

I've never written a book, so I can only imagine this sense of just like fulfillment. Yes. And also peace that comes from, you're like, yep. I have dotted the last, I crossed the last T. Mm-hmm.

Samantha:

Hands off. When I finished those past pages, I was like, Ooh baby, we are celebrating. I don't even remember what I did. I just blackout celebrating. Probably online shopping. That's really my, usually my go-to. Well deserved. Well Deserved.

Kelsey:

Yeah. With that being said can you tell us a little bit about your writing journey and where it started, what kept you going? Yes.

Samantha:

Started how many books you've written? Yes. This is my fourth book. Mm-hmm. I started writing when I was. About 11, like sixth grade was when I got really serious. I did write some Mary Kate and Ashley Mystery, like knockoffs. Oh, fun. When I was very young. I remember penning those in my grandparents' computer room, if that tells you how old I am. Room for the computer. Same. Yeah. But that kind of fizzled out and then. I really found my spark. So I'm a younger cousin of many cousins. Okay. I have no, I don't have siblings. I've just got lots of cousins that feel like siblings. Mm-hmm. And one of my older cousins when I was with her, made me watch the, like 1993 cult classic Christian Bale doing a New York accent, Newsies um, oh, Newsies. Not the cool Broadway version, but the kind of dorky Yep. And knows exactly what you're talking about. Version. Love it. Kenny Ortega. Mm-hmm. You know, In his genius. Beautiful. Um, And immediately it altered my brain chemistry. My mom will tell you, it would be like movie night. We'd be like, we're gonna watch a movie. What do you wanna watch? And I'd be like, we're gonna watch Newsies. And she'd be like, we have to watch another movie. We cannot, we've, the VHS is like, as you rewind it, she was like, we can't keep doing this. I was so obsessed. I went to a really small Catholic school, so my friends and I did. You. I sure did. So you get it. I do. So, um, My best friends and I, if we were in the same class, we were usually like you were, you went to all your classes together. Yeah. And so we, I would write my Newsies fan fiction, and then we had a shared notebook. I made them write with me. My friends who were not writers to this day are still not, they would tell you we were not writers, but we all wrote my fan fiction vision together collaboratively. That's sweet. And that was my start. And that really went on for three years. That was like all of middle school. It was all newsies all the time. I was writing fan fiction before I knew what fanfiction was.'cause I wasn't really like on the internet yet. Yeah. And then I got on the internet at 12 or 13. Getting, and that was so on fanfic.net writing, all of my Newsies Fanfic. Not about Jack Kelly or like any of the main characters. No, it was about like extra number four in the background with the buck teeth. I loved him. I was like, you've got a story to tell. The one that's like sucking his thumb. In the beginning I was like, you've got promise and we're gonna unpack it. And I'm in middle school. Wow. Yeah. And then I was, 12 getting flamed on the internet by like grad students who my God, were like, you don't have any idea what you're writing. And I think, that really prepared me for the publishing industry. I bet it did. Fair. It's brutal. Forged and forged in fire. Forged in the flames of the comic section on fanfic.net.

Amanda:

Wow. It's funny'cause Kelsey and I technically have a shared. Newsies memory because your school did Newsies two years ago. Mm-hmm. I think it was. And so we went and saw her middle schoolers do it. Amazing. Yeah.

Kelsey:

It was fabulous. I'm an assistant principal at a middle school, and so we went to You're

Amanda:

so brave. You're so strong.

Kelsey:

We went to their production.

Amanda:

It was one year, the cutest thing ever. I love that so much. And I wanted to belt along with all of the songs because I know, like I, again that version of Newsies, the 93 like vh. Mm-hmm. Like That My jam, like Yeah. Loved it so much. I love it. Arguably

Samantha:

the Broadway version, not to go down the rabbit hole of Newsies, which I could do pretty much any day, but the Broadway version is arguably like a better story. Sure. But there's just something charming about whatever's going on. Mm-hmm. A special place in that film version. Yeah.

Amanda:

Special place in my heart. Yeah. So then did you go on to get your degree in writing or did you kinda just jump right into I did.

Samantha:

Weirdly enough. So, I wrote fan fiction all through high school. I actually wrote I guess what we call it is real people fiction, but I wrote about fans. So, I was living in South Florida at the time, which like, I feel like was one of the hubs of the emo music. Oh, okay. And we really, we got deep into it. So it all started with my panic at the Disco Ryan Ross. Yeah. Uhhuh and Fiction. God, I can't believe I just admitted that out loud with my own mouth

Amanda:

exclusively

Samantha:

on this podcast. Literally. Yeah. So that's where that started. So I, I kept going. I wrote like band fiction. Mm-hmm. Through. College so I went into college being like, I don't know what I want to do. And I went to a really big school, so like I had a lot of options of majors. Mm-hmm. It wasn't like, oh, we only do these six things. It was like you could really do anything. And so I started with I was undecided and then I wanted to do education and then I got it in my head that I wanted to be the president's speech writer, probably. Oh, probably.'cause I saw too many episodes of the West Wing as a child. And I was like, okay. I be c Yeah. So I was like, I'll do political science. And then I went to go switch it again. And my mom, I think I switched my major four times. My mom was finally like, we're calling again. My mom was like putting her foot down. She was, we're not watching Newsies again, and you're not changing your major one more time. And she was like, why don't you just make your major, what your minor has been through all of these changes? And I was like, oh, I didn't know I was allowed to do that. I thought I had to do something practical. But my mom is not it'll be hard to believe when reading the roommate arrangement, but my mom is actually nothing like Blair's parents. She's extremely like. That was such a hippie. Follow your heart. Do what your heart tells you. Love it. Like she is, not practical, is not in her, I love that. A little lexicon. Yeah. Yeah. So she told me to change my major and I did creative writing. That's

Amanda:

fantastic. I kept creative writing as my minor. I never switched into my major, but ILI loved, I ended up majoring in theater and then, yeah, creative writing was my minor. Um, That's cool though. But very much enjoyed all of my creative writing classes, so That's awesome that your mom was like, go for it.'cause my, I was originally an English major and then I switched to theater and my mom was. What are you gonna do with a theater major? At least with English you can teach. And I'm like, I will never teach. I would never wanna be a teacher. And now I've been a teacher for 13 years. That's what amazing. But I'm going back a little bit. So we talked about your writing background, but what were some of the books that you read as a young person that really influenced your writing and your writing style?

Samantha:

Young adult had just gotten big when I was in high school. And the first young adult book I remember reading was the Truth About Forever by Sarah Deon, which is of like still my favorite book to this day. I have had multiple copies. The copy that I read, I actually borrowed from a friend in high school, loved it so much. I was like, can I borrow it again? Never gave it back. So I did the big bad of borrowing and stealing a book from my friend. Mm-hmm. I owe her big time. And then I think after that I read like some of Maureen Johnson's older books, like 13 Little Blue Envelopes and she has this like older series about a girl who lives in a hotel called Sweet Scarlet. Loved that. Okay. I also I guess like in late high school, early college is when Anna and the French Kiss came out. Okay. Which is Stephanie Perkins. And then I was also, I was really into fantasy when I was younger. And one of the big fan, like pretty much she's the girl Holly Black. I read Tithed by Holly Black was like one of my first big. Okay. Big I, influences. She just, she can, she does it all. She can do no wrong. I think she writes, did

Amanda:

not read a lot of fantasy. I'm like, I've never heard of Holly Black. I've, oh my gosh, yeah.

Samantha:

This is now. I'm

Amanda:

like, I haven't read

Samantha:

this. She is amazing. Tithe is about this girl, it takes place in New Jersey, so it's gritty and like mm-hmm. It just, it was so different from anything else I was reading. Mm-hmm. And the character, so the main character is Kay. And she was so different from any character I was reading. She like imprinted on my brain at one point. I don't know if it's Halloween or what, but she wears this skin tight catsuit. Yeah. Outfit, like costume. And I was like, this is amazing. She's so cool. She's so cool. But she meets a fairy, she like, saves a fairy and then as payment, he's like, what can I give you to like, repay you for saving my life? And she's like, just tell me your name. But of course having a fairy's name means that you can basically control them.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm.

Samantha:

So that's how it all starts. Oh, she meets this ferry and learns his name and then has complete control over him.

Amanda:

Is it

Samantha:

an

Amanda:

urban fantasy since it's in New Jersey or do they travel to a Yeah

Samantha:

I think her earlier books definitely are urban fantasy.'cause that one. I think takes place half in our world and half in the fairy world. But the fairy world is also like very different, very dark. Okay. because they're all of these different courts, which then she like gets into,'cause Have you heard of the Cruel Prince? That's probably her biggest book. I haven't like her most popular. Mm-hmm. Okay. So the Cruel Prince also takes place in this world. And as she's gone through all these books, all of her fairy books are like connected. Oh. And they're all these different courts. Okay. And like this court that she's in is one of the underground courts. So it's very good if this could be the start of your Holly Black journey. Okay. I actually got to see her, I went to her event for her most recent, she has an adult series out now. And for the second one, she came here and I got to go see her talk. And I was like, she's so

Amanda:

cool.

Samantha:

She's just so

Amanda:

cool. Ugh. Alright. I will have to,'cause I am expanding my tastes into the fantasy genre. So I should I start with tithe?

Samantha:

I would start with tithe. I think it's so good. I think it's so good. And she also if you're into vampires at all, one of my favorites Okay. Is the coldest girl in Cold Town, it's not one of her fairy books, but it's about a girl who like gets entangled basically with vampires. Her ex-boyfriend gets bitten by one, and so he like goes cold. So they have to take him to a cold town to see if he's gonna turn into a vampire. Oh. So basically, once you go cold, you either drink va, I think it's, you drink vampire blood and you become a vampire. Or you can detox out

Amanda:

the virus. Oh, interesting. Okay. So it's not like a death sentence essentially. Death sentence. Exactly. Quote unquote. Okay. But

Samantha:

then the whole town is also is it's kinda like a big rea, like a big reality show, I don't know. There's they're like celebrities. Oh, ing there's like the vampires are celebrities. Yeah. It's really this.

Amanda:

I feel like there's been a lot of vampire books and a lot of vampire lore and this sounds like a fun twist on it. I'm like, I'm intrigued. It's really fun. It's very

Samantha:

fun. Yeah.

Kelsey:

It's not like Twilight'cause she hated Twilight.

Samantha:

I under, I understand. I read Twilight, I think when it came out. Yeah. I actually, my college roommate, my first year, my college roommate, the only thing I knew about her going into college was that she loved Twilight. And so I was like, all right, I guess I'll read it so we have something to talk about. And then that Nice. I read it and I was like, forget you. I don't even need to talk to you. I just need these books. I don't even need to speak to you about that. Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda:

I think

Samantha:

it's,

Amanda:

I think it's, it was a moment when I was younger, like when they came out, I might mm-hmm. Might have felt differently about them, but I read the book for the first time for this podcast when we started it like a year and a half ago, and I was like. Oh, they certainly, I'm sure don't hold up at all. They don't. They

Samantha:

do not. They really don't. But they were such a moment in time. They sure were. Yes. Such huge. They had their place.

Kelsey:

They have their place. Yes. Yes. Time and place. Since you've already written a handful of y titles we're curious, how do you feel like your voice has evolved since your debut, which was this may end badly?

Samantha:

That's a good question. I feel like, I don't know if my voice has changed as much as like my process.

Amanda:

This

Samantha:

may end badly. I wrote in basically three months, super fast, completely linear. I took almost nothing out. I took out one scene in the whole thing. Everything like, just came together. And I feel like it was just a, do I wanna write it? That's what I'm writing. Mm-hmm. And I think that for my first probably three books that is just. What I did, you wouldn't dare was a little different'cause I did have to rewrite the whole thing. I had written the wrong, oh my god interest, which actually was like my. My mo for my first two books was like this Man Badly. I wrote the Wrong Love Interest. I started writing it. It was about three. And then by the second chapter, when you meet Wells for the first time, I was like, oh, who's this like guy that I've just written in? And then for my second book, I wrote the whole thing with One Love Interest, turned it in and my editor was like, I don't think this is right. And I was like, I don't think this is right either. And so I went back and changed love interest. It was character that was already in it. And so by my third one I was like, okay, we're gonna. Rolling up my sleeve sleeve, get this right. I was like, this is, yeah, we're gonna get this right. We absolutely have to, because I wrote that entire book round three, so I was like, you actually can't, okay. Not, you can't have the wrong love interest this time because this is his book and if you try to change it, I don't know, he might manifest and just struggle in your sleep. So that one, yeah. I think I got a little, I started to get a little bit more intentional about my writing with that one. I think I went in with a lot of ideas of what I wanted to do. With my first two books, it was kind of like, let the story speak to you. And then by the third one I was like, okay, I'm speaking to the story now, story, I'm in Charge Uhhuh. Which is about how it feels half the time is like I'm in charge. And the rest of the time it's like, I don't know what's going on. Everyone's running wild. But I had a few things that I like really wanted to tackle. And then coming out of that, going into my fourth book, it was more of like. okay. Now I have a lot of stuff that I wanna tackle. There were a lot of things that I feel like, especially writing about. So I guess I should say what this book is about. So the roommate arrangement is about a girl named Blair who gets dropped by her best friends and their housing arrangement like two weeks before they're supposed to leave for school. They're all doing summer session. I went to a school that did summer session. I didn't know a lot of schools don't do that. Yeah, my school, yeah. So it's a fictionalized version of my school as well, which a reader clocked, which I thought was hilarious. She's going for a summer program and her friends are going for summer session and they were supposed to live together. Her best friends drop her. They're like, you're too much. You're gonna be hard to live with, but we'll still stay friends. And so she has to scramble to find a new place to live. And she answers this desperate roommate ad. She's desperate. They're desperate. She goes to move in and realizes one of the four people that live in this apartment is her brother's best friend. And her And her brother are not besties. They're not, they don't get along? No, they do not get along. Her brother, I would say is maybe like the main antagonist of this book. Mm-hmm. At least besides her mom in part. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Her like mom and her stepdad. Yeah her mom, and her stepdad. And so going into it, I think I really had a lot of things that I wanted Blair to deal with.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm. One of

Samantha:

them being, I'd written in my first book, like I have this core friend group and in my second book I have this core friend group, like these very good, very close my first one was like, they go to boarding school together, they're like sisters. My second one was like, they've all grown up together. They're like, this really good tight-knit friend group. Mm-hmm. And then in my third book, I was like. I actually don't want her to have any friends. I want her to be at school. Like totally adrift, trying to find friends. Yeah. And then to find them along the way, which is what she does. Yeah. And then in my fourth book, I was like, okay, so we've done all this. What about she has no friends?'cause her friends just dropped her. Like her best friends don't like her anymore. Yeah. Especially because going into college, I feel like that is something that happens Yeah. To a lot of people. Totally. You don't go to the same school, you lose touch. Mm-hmm. You have fights. Mm-hmm. And so I was like, okay, this feels like a really volatile moment in your life. Like mm-hmm. Let's just throw her into the hardest situation you can get thrown into.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Samantha:

So I really wanted to tackle that more than anything. That feeling of being very adrift. Yeah. But then of course Blair has all kinds of other issues. Oh my gosh. So many issued up. I was like, if I had a thought, I was like, she's gonna have that. Oh sure. For

Amanda:

sure. I actually, I was thinking,'cause I've read the book and I was thinking about this prior to, doing this interview and chatting with you. And for folks who've listened to the podcast for a while, you'll know that, I love very human, messy characters. I like, gritty human experiences and I'm not a big romance reader. Pretty much all the romance books I've read have been because of Kelsey and because of this podcast.

Kelsey:

Mm-hmm.

Amanda:

But I tend to like romance books that are less light and fluffy and like dessert and that actually have some hard hitting topics in there. And I feel like this book does it dives into so many things, whether it's like dysfunctional families or like friendship breakups or body image, or like mental health struggles. Mm-hmm. Being. A woman in a man's world in terms of being in a computer programming program, right? Mm-hmm. And feeling so out of place. And I, I just, I just had to say I really appreciated that about this book for me personally, like that's something I really look for in a novel. And I was like yes. I love

Samantha:

this. Thank you. I also look for that in a novel. I feel like you were speaking straight, right? It was like you were taking the words outta my brain. They were calling. Oh, yeah. What book is that? I love books. I love messy characters. Mm-hmm. I would say most of my characters, especially my first two books, are extremely messy. And a lot of them are making problems on their own. They're making the problems and they're having to solve the problems. Mm-hmm. Which I find very fun. Even when I was reading Fanfic, it was like, here are your tags. And it was like, if it said fluff, I was like, we're out, we're done. I don't need fluff. Yeah. I don't want cotton candy. Like I wanna feel something. Same. Yeah. That is, that was definitely, I think my goal with this too, so I really appreciate it. That makes me feel, yeah, I feel like I really, accomplished it. I did. You accomplished the thing that you set

Amanda:

out to do. Absolutely.

Kelsey:

So what sparked the idea for this story? Did a personal experience or observation like inspire it?

Samantha:

So this is actually really funny and I don't know how she'll feel about me sharing this, but I am gonna have to share it. This was actually inspired by someone I know. I won't name names. Okay. I just have a lot of cousins. And I am one of the youngest, but I'm not the youngest. And I had a cousin who was in college and going through, I wouldn't call it a friend breakup, but I would say some friend strain. Mm-hmm. And she she lived with her best friends and then some stuff happened. Mm-hmm. And as it was all happening, I was like, this is it's so stressful and like for Oh yeah. For the adults in her life talking to her and she's in college, she's an adult. Mm-hmm. But she's experiencing all of this for the first time. And so it was like I, I could see like how much it was affecting her and like how it was like the only thing that she could think about and the only thing that she could talk about. And I was like, man, this is like so interesting how this, like one thing that's going on, which is like just where she lives

Amanda:

mm-hmm.

Samantha:

Is so deeply affecting every part of her life.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Samantha:

And I feel like when you're housing situation especially is so all over the place. It sends everything all over the place. And so I felt like, well that's a really good place to start a story, which she ended up moving out of that house and I was like. Oh, that's so interesting. How that affects Yeah. It just really I think sparked something where I was like, okay, so if this is where we start the story mm-hmm. Of like where things change, like how does that affect every other part of your life? And I feel with Blair's friends dropping her and it puts her in this like place of big time stress. I feel like it sets off all of these chain reactions in her. Yeah. In her life. It does.

Amanda:

And I think too, like my girlfriends and I have talked about this, how like in our lives, if you have a romantic breakup, it's like a big deal. Everybody rallies, it's like a whole thing. But friend breakups are just as painful if not more totally. And as a culture, we don't really rally in the same way. No. To help someone navigate that. And so I also, people think it's

Kelsey:

drama. Yeah, exactly. It was just a friend

Amanda:

and I. Sometimes friend relations have, have gone on longer than romantic relationships. Yeah. You've known them maybe since childhood, like you've been vulnerable with them in all of these ways. And it always surprises me that it doesn't have the same kind of weight to it and the way that we like, deal with it, respond to it, handle it. And so I really love that because especially in a romantic novel, you're expecting the heartbreak to come from a romantic interest, right? Mm-hmm. Or like a failed relationship, and you're like, no, actually it's a failed friendship, like multiple in this situation. Yeah. So I loved that you added that in

Kelsey:

there still. Like I, I am about 30% of the way through Sam. Mm-hmm. And I just. I hate those girls so much.

Samantha:

They bother. So that is like all of my friends that read it early, I would get texts being like, they suck so much. And I was like, this is their problem.

Kelsey:

Yeah. Yeah. And I get triggered by it, mom reading. I know. I was like, ew.

Amanda:

Ugh. I was particularly triggered by it because I'm like, Blair, like I am a neat freak. Like I am the mom. And I'm like, Ugh, how rude. Like I know. Me too. How dare you. Yeah. That's so fun though. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Do you feel like, I know I already mentioned a couple of them a moment ago, but what themes do you feel like you explore in this story? We have some examples. Okay. So like ident identity, change, independence. Mm-hmm. Coming of age, which Yeah. I think honestly all of those things are

Samantha:

definitely all of those things. I think that it's a lot of it feels like coming, it feels like a late coming of age. It feels like a second coming of age. Yeah.'Cause when I think of coming of age, I always think of 13, 14. Yeah. Like figuring out who you are. And I feel like this is more of coming of age as an adult kind of figuring out how to be an adult. I think that especially for this one, Blair is thrust into that a little bit earlier. Mm-hmm. Having to figure all that stuff out. Yeah. But yeah, I would definitely say change coming of age. Mm-hmm. And there is some body image stuff. Mm-hmm. I think that, my third book, definitely had more body image. Issues that she was working through. Mm-hmm. I think Blair has them, but I wanted to write a character who was just like giving fat phobia the middle finger all the time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which I think is very Blair of being like I'm just not gonna pay attention to that. I'm just not gonna do that. She is like a little bit, a little stubborn. A little hardheaded. Yeah. I feel like those are the biggest ones. It's hard to think of themes so much of it is about Blair's journey. Yeah. And, it makes it sound like there isn't a romance. But I will say, I think Jamie's a pretty, pretty big part of, most of what she goes

Amanda:

through. Yeah. And part of that transformation that happens and that growth that happens. Yes, because I actually think yes, there is kinda that first coming of age, when you are 13, 14, but going to college is a huge transformation for sure. And transformational period. So yeah, it totally is like a second. Mm-hmm. Coming of age. I actually really like that, especially

Kelsey:

with Blair's parents being so involved as they were. Yes. For her. Yeah. She's just like trying to handle everything on her own, hide all the things and Yeah. And try

Samantha:

and trying to make sure that her parents don't find out, that's her big thing. And I love writing a character. I love writing liars. I don't know what it is about. People who lie are so fun to me because I'm like, you are creating a house of cards and then I'm just sitting over here like blowing it out one card by one card and then watching you panic. And it's just, it's so fun. Like in my first book, Doe is a big liar. She lies about everything. That whole book is lies. She start from the very beginning. Fake dating is just one big lie. Yep. And so I love to write a character who lies about stuff and then has to keep it all together. Mm-hmm. Keep it all straight. Yeah. Especially a character like Blair who up until this point has not been a liar. Yeah. She's just a good little girl. She does what she is supposed to do. She listens to her parents, like she's home by curfew. Mm-hmm. She's taking her allergy meds so making sure really fun. She's, yeah. Making sure she's not eating, peanut walnuts or peanuts or any other kind of nut that might be around. Yeah. So taking her and throwing her into this to make her lie. Yeah. To everyone. Mm-hmm. About everything was really fun because, she's very stressed.

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's so fun as a reader'cause it creates like this delicious tension the entire time.'cause you know, that house of Cards is gonna come crashing down Uhhuh, and you're like, oh my gosh, when is it gonna happen? Oh my God, this is gonna be such a disaster.

Samantha:

And that's what I want. I want you sitting there being like, yep. Sweating and fanning yourself, being like, oh my God.

Amanda:

And you feel so bad for her because she's lying technically, like for the right reasons. Like she has good intentions and you're just like, oh God, Blair yeah. So this girl. Yeah.

Kelsey:

So my gosh, this girl. Yeah. Oh man. I'm wondering since you love writing Liars what is one of your favorite scenes that you wrote in this book, specifically without any spoilers. Without any spoilers to the best

Samantha:

of your ability I'll say the scene. Oh. Without any spoilers. All I'll say is it has to do with her brother. I feel like every time I wrote Sawyer to me, was like a scene stealer. He was very much a every time he was on the page, I was like, damn, am I gonna have to write a book about this guy? I was like, am I gonna be thinking about him eight months from now, being like, wonder what he's up to? I loved Sawyer so much. He's great.'Cause I love anyone who antagonizes. I think that they're really fun. I just, I love a character who's gonna make a situation worse. Oh. And he's never making a situation better. Yeah. And so I will say, without any spoilers, there is a scene with him. And you know what? Antagonizing, it's kind of like right where I have to, I think that to keep it from being spoily. Yeah. Stop. Yeah. Okay. So I'll give a second one. That's probably my first favorite. My second favorite, okay. Is there is a scene where Blair accidentally answers a FaceTime from her mom.

Amanda:

Oh. Oh yes.

Samantha:

Mm-hmm. While everyone is over for d and d night and her mom hears them in the background and she has to on the fly, get everyone from the d and d group now to be in on her lie. Mm-hmm. And then of course Jamie walks in the middle of it being like,

Amanda:

what's

Samantha:

hell? Yeah. Why? Why is this random guy that plays d and d with my roommate on the phone with your mother?

Amanda:

That was an excellent scene. I, it's funny'cause it, I feel like it takes a lot for me to. Laugh out loud, like full belly laugh when I'm reading a book. Mm-hmm. Or maybe just in general. And the one scene, I don't think this is a spoiler either, where her allergies are like going crazy and she's got like tissues or tampon, something stuffed up her nose. Oh yeah. Tissues stuff. And like I laughed out loud during that entire scene. I just, I don't know what it was. Could not keep it together. Thought it was hilarious. The hilarious. Yeah. And what was happening. She like sm it was great. It was so great. Great. When she sneezes it out and goes into the

Samantha:

candle. Yeah. Yeah. I also love that scene. It was great. I appreciated it so much. Thank you. I think all the scenes with the roommates were a lot of fun. Yeah. There, the roommates in the d and d group were a lot of fun. I love, I do love them. Love. I love a group. I have a big family, so I think that like when I get a bunch of people in a room talking at the same time, it just feels like I'm at family dinner. I'm like, okay, here's my aunt and here's my aunt and here's my aunt. Yeah's,

Amanda:

and I feel like you did such a great job of one, she does have this beautiful, like new found family love found family, love that. And I feel like all of the characters felt so well developed. Like I think sometimes in novels you have this cast of characters that can come across as like really two dimensional outside of the main, protagonist fmc MC and I was like, oh no, you're all like real people. Where you all have dabbed. I'm so glad. And like I wanted to hang out with them. I was like, I just wanna chill in this house with y'all. Like I love them so

Samantha:

much. I'm so glad. I work really hard on my background characters too.'cause I feel the same way. I think that, especially in romance, I think a lot of times they are just like flat uhhuh and to me I'm like, these are my friends that I'm coming to visit in this book. Yeah,

Amanda:

absolutely. And they have like their own lives, their own love interests, their own struggles and just like beautiful seeing it all come together. Love that. This book is coming out tomorrow. The remit arrangement. Gosh, I keep forgetting. I know it, it's weird. A podcast'cause we're always bouncing around in time and we're always like, wait, shift is this coming out? What is Yes. The multiverse or something. Yeah. We've already talked a little bit about how this launch. Compares to some of your previous ones and maybe scrambling, at the end. Yeah. But I am curious, as you're getting ready to put this new book out into the world and, have a new group of readers interact with your text, with your writing, how has interacting with readers influenced your writing over time? Or has it at all?

Samantha:

Oh, it definitely has. I think a lot about the things that people say they loved in my other books or the things they say they hated, which, mm-hmm. Of course there's always something. Usually the main character, which I'm like, all right I can't do anything about that. But I feel like it does make me very conscious about am I writing something that people are going to want to read? Especially the more books you write, the more you have a brand.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm. Or people start to

Samantha:

expect something from you and then you're like, am I gonna deliver? Is it, can I deliver it? Is this what they want? Especially when you're writing books. That are so different from each, you know,'cause my first book and my second book are so different from each other. And obviously my first book and my third book are really similar. They're companions, but then the the roommate arrangement's totally d like totally different, right? Like, you know, They're both college romances. But that's about where, so I think that it's like writing something that doesn't feel stale and like I'm writing it just the same thing over and over again, which is something I run into even now, like working on my next project. I'm like I think that might be too similar. And everyone's like, you gotta stop getting down into the details and going, I think this is too similar because it's this one tiny little Yeah. Grain of detail that's yeah. Like something that you wrote, for your last book. So yeah, I think that it makes me way more conscious for sure, and definitely like more trying to please the people that like what I write. By continuing to write what they like.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm. That makes sense. You want people coming back for more. Exactly. Each time you write something. Yeah. I don't

Samantha:

want the person who's been like, I loved your first four books, but then that fifth one, man, that was weird. I didn't like it. I mess. Yeah.

Kelsey:

Hopefully it's more of your style rather than the story that they're interested in. That is what I'm hoping. Rightfully it comes through. It's a through line. Yes. Yeah. And thinking about that too about the publishing world in general. Mm-hmm. Was there anything that surprised you about the publishing world as you started, like working this?

Samantha:

Oh, everything in this, there hasn't been one thing. So I went after I wrote my second book between my second and my third I went to an event. And it was a, like an adult romance author. Mm-hmm. And she was like, oh, I really wanna talk to you actually,'cause I'm thinking about writing a ya. And I was like, oh, I don't know anything about that. I don't know. She was like, so I wanna know like what you're publishing, like what publishing has been like. And I was like, I don't, and she was like, you've written two ya novels. And I was like, yeah. Like theoretically I have written Uhhuh I should know what to expect. But it is everything is a surprise. And it's different too from publisher to publisher. It's different just between editors, anding houses. Oh, I see. I feel like learning that people that were at my same publishing house but had a different editor were having like a different experience than I was like, I was like, oh, I didn't know that it could be like that here. Yeah. Because this is what I've been experiencing. So yeah. I think everything has just been surprising. There's never been a time where I feel totally. Like, I know what's going on abolishing. I think that's why it's very important that my agent is so great. She knows Yeah. So much.'cause so many times I have to be like, Hey Bessie, what does that, what's going on mean? What is that? Even like the stuff that I should know about, I'm like, oh God, I don't know.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Samantha:

So yeah, it's I don't know how much of it is me just not committing stuff to memory and how much of it is just publishing is always I feel like constantly changing. Changing, yeah. Yeah. And especially even just the turnover within publishing. Mm-hmm. Like editors leaving and coming, like coming and going and like people on, on their teams coming and going, assistance coming and going. Everything, can be very specific to the person. Yeah. So lots of different, I've learned so much and yet I'm still surprised all the time.

Amanda:

Yeah. I can just imagine. Have you been with the same publisher for all of your books or have you Okay.

Samantha:

No, I was with I was with St. Martin's Press. I was with Wednesday books for my first two, and then I'm with Margaret Kay MLE Dairy now for my. For my second two okay. So my companion novels are not even with the same publisher. My, that's wild. My is with Wednesday, my third is with MACLE Dairy. Yeah. It's it's been, it's even just like between those two, just like a different experience, but and there's always, there's like positives and negatives with both. Mm-hmm. Sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah. One thing I think I've learned from knowing people in all of the different houses and all the different imprints is I'm like, oh, we're, it's different, but we're all having the same experience.

Kelsey:

Sure. That

Samantha:

tracks. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelsey:

And like, how much work do you have to do to promote your books?

Samantha:

A lot and probably more than I'm doing. I probably should be doing more than I'm doing. But yeah it's hard to say.'cause they say you need to be doing this. You need to be on TikTok. You need to be making tiktoks every day. You need to be, oh gosh, making reels every day. Like video content is so important. And you also, you need to be like posting this many times a week but then you'll talk to people and they're like, that doesn't matter. None of that matters. Oh my God. It doesn't move the needle. You can't do anything yourself. So it's I think the general rule is do as much as you want. Mm-hmm. And then that's that's what you do. Yeah. I know some people, I think some people's publishers push them to post more, promote it more, yeah. Mm-hmm. My publisher. Lets me do whatever I want. Oh, that's nice. That's kinda nice. Fantastic. They'll be like, Hey, post this today. Yeah, which is good. But yeah, it's more of just do as much as you want, like as often as you want. And Okay. Hopefully that comes across as like more authentic than just me being like, Hey, I'm back on my TikTok. Please read this book. The thing that no one asked for here. Yeah. Please read this book. Remember me. Yeah.

Amanda:

It's nice that you have that flexibility to do it feels good for you. And what feels like, you said, what feels authentic? Yeah, I love that. And I

Samantha:

do think there is such a thing as hurting yourself. Yeah. With your promotion for sure.'cause I'm like, some, I feel as though I maybe. If I were on TikTok all the time, Uhhuh, I wouldn't be doing myself any kind of service. Yeah. So

Amanda:

it's

Samantha:

like I'm on

Amanda:

TikTok instead of writing.

Samantha:

Yeah, that

Amanda:

too. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine. You mentioned a couple questions ago, very briefly about your next project. Mm-hmm. And I am just like curious yeah. What is next? Can you like tease any upcoming stories or ideas that you're like exploring or sussing out?

Samantha:

I don't know how much I can say. Sure. Yeah., I'll describe the main characters, which, like right now in their current iteration, which is very early it's like L Woods Meats. Some kind of like strange fairy prince, alien boy who is unlike any other person she's ever met.

Kelsey:

So very different.

Samantha:

Yeah, he is. And, but it's contemporary. He's just he's just a weirdo.

Amanda:

I love that. Love a good weirdo. He's yeah.

Samantha:

Very much a weirdo. I love a weirdo. I love a character who is like, never let him know your next move. And that is a hundred percent him. Sometimes I'm like, what are we doing? Wait, what? What are we doing? Yeah. So that sounds intriguing. That's fun. Yeah, it has. It's been fun. It's tough, but it's fun. Mm-hmm. Sounds a challenge. I'm getting into my era of writing a lot of stuff that I don't know a ton about, so I have to do a lot of research. Oh yeah. Yeah. So that's because I feel like

Amanda:

probably for the roommate arrangement, you probably didn't have to do a considerable amount of research.

Samantha:

No, I had to, I, I had to do some computer science. Yeah, that's fair stuff. And Blair does sculpting, so it was a lot of like research on different styles and sculptors and I learned a lot about clay and how it's made and what you do with it. I was listening to a lot of podcasts about clay, so Interesting. But, and it's so much stuff that doesn't make it in, but it's like the tiniest detail of just being like, yeah, of course Dionne had to wear a mask while she was sweeping cleaning up clay. Yeah. Because otherwise, yeah, so it was a lot of that. And then the computer science stuff, which was half me researching and watching YouTube videos and half my very good friend who majored in computer science, he does Oh, nice. He does, as we like to say, computer science-y stuff. Okay. Yep. He went to grad school and got his master's in computer stuff. Yep. And I would be like, Hey, does this sound right? And then he'd go into some long explanation. I'd be like no.

Kelsey:

Yes or no poor version. Yeah. It's a yes or no

Samantha:

question

Kelsey:

for us non-computer

Samantha:

stuff

Amanda:

folks.

Samantha:

Yeah, it was a lot of that. And again, the computer science stuff that like is so there's, it's like such a big part of Blair's life, but like the details of it are so minimal. Yeah. Yeah. But I was like, God, we better get it right.

Amanda:

It ma it does make a huge difference for that believability factor and for that one person out there who is actually. Because, they're like a computer Programer is wait a minute, this doesn't drag.

Samantha:

I'm sure there, I'm sure there's something in there. I can feel it in my bones. But

Amanda:

we hopefully they're like, yeah, hopefully they're so taken by the rest of the story. It's it's not even a big deal. They're like, it's not

Samantha:

even important, whatever that was. Yeah. That was hand wavy stuff.

Kelsey:

Ah, thinking about this dropping and it reaching. Some of our listeners who aren't familiar with your work which book would you suggest they start with and why?

Samantha:

Oh, that's so hard. It's, that's hard. Or doesn't matter all your babies. It depends on your mood. Yeah. And I, yeah, I don't think it matters. I think a lot of times in the winter I like to recommend you wouldn't dare because it's a summer book and I feel like if you mm-hmm. Live somewhere where it is not summer mm-hmm. And you're just like dying for the beach, I feel like it feels like a summer vacation. Nice. And then with this May, this may badly and love off the record, they are both school books they take place during the actual school year. And I feel like this is of course, a good time to read them. Especially if you're like in school and you're like over it. It's a good way to romanticize school again. It's that's fair. Oh, this could be fun if it was, the way it happens in a book. And with those, I actually don't think that you have to read them in a certain order. I, this man badly definitely is, definitely comes first. Mm-hmm. Like in chronological order. That one is first. It was written first takes place first. But I think Love off the record, if you read it first and then you get to go back and read this Man Badly with three as the antagonist uhhuh at his worst, like even worse than he is and love Off the record, which is you thought he couldn't get worse. He can. I think that's also very fun and I love to read companion novels out of order. Like I've never, I read historicals a lot, like Historical Romance and like I've read, like I read the Bridgeton series. I think I read the last one first. Oh. And that was one of the first ones I read. Yeah, I read that one. I think I read that one first and then it was like, and then I think I read. Two, three, and four. And then I went back and read one, and then I read five and it was like, oh my gosh. I don't, I am like, I don't believe in reading an order. I think breaking all the rules. I love it. Yeah. But yeah, I guess if you're listening to this right now and you need a book to read like tomorrow, you could start with

Amanda:

the remain, start with the, I mean, I can highly recommend it.

Samantha:

Thank you.

Amanda:

Definitely. Okay. Let's do a couple of like quick fun wrap up questions and then we'll have you share like your socials where folks can connect with you, all that good stuff at the end. Mm-hmm. So since this book, the Roommate arrangement is all about roommates or the lack of them or new ones if you could have any fictional character as a roommate, who would it be? That's such

Kelsey:

a good question. It's, I

Amanda:

know. Now

Samantha:

I'm

Amanda:

thinking about

Samantha:

What

Amanda:

I,

Samantha:

Can I pick two? I feel since we started this talking about Stranger Things, I wanna live with Steven Robin. Oh my gosh. I just wanna live with, I just want them, I mean I, if I had to pick one, I'd pick Robin.'cause I feel like, you know, Robin's a hooter. Put a positive influence. Yeah. But I would, I think Steven, Robin would be, it would be endless, inspiration for sure. Uhhuh shenanigans. Yeah, shenanigans. Exactly. I think they're the best.

Amanda:

That's a great response. And just so on theme for the fact that the new episodes just dropped. I'm counting down the days, I'm counting down the days on. The next ones my, it's funny because the two, what the next two are on Christmas Day and the last one is on like New Year's, right? New Eve. It's on 30th or 31st year. Really? Yeah.

Kelsey:

Oh, like my gosh, I didn't even realize that. I wonder why they chose

Samantha:

those days though. I know, I told my family, I was like I hope you're already Christmas day. To have a family viewing of Stranger Things my own. That's what's gonna happening. That's all

Amanda:

we're doing

Samantha:

today.

Amanda:

Yeah. Don't wanna talk to you until it's finished. Thank you. Literally.

Kelsey:

Next question outside of writing. Mm-hmm. How do you like to unwind?

Samantha:

Yeah. I love to unwind. I am a couch person. I love to ride on the couch. I love to watch tv. I'm very into K dramas. I think a k drama is perfect for me. Because I love to have to read the subtitles so that I can't do anything else. Like I have to be in the story. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so I find that very immersive. And then I do play a lot of video games. So right now I'm playing Pokemon Legends Zs. So fun, love a gamer girl. Yeah. On a mission to catch all the different types of ev get all the EV evolutions. And of course I love Animal Crossing. I'm excited for the, I've the new, I've heard so much about that. I've heard so much. I've never played it, but goodness, it's I was like, I can, I was like a COVID gamer. Like I played games when I was younger. Like I played like Spiro and like Crash Bandicoot. Oh, crush Bandicoot. Yeah. God hear that. I, I played like the old Zeldas on the Nintendos Uhhuh had cartridge,

Amanda:

mm-hmm. Blow into it when

Samantha:

it didn't work. Now I play Zelda on the Switch. Uhhuh, yeah. But I really rediscovered gaming during C-O-V-I-I was one of the, one of the COVID Nintendo Switch people, and it really, a lot of people were. I love it. I love a video game. And then obviously reading, and I love to read WebToons. I have a lot of WebToons. Oh, interesting. Okay. I'm reading right now. There was one called Seasons of Blossom, which was like Four seasons and it follows all these different characters. And it was a little darker. The first one's like more of a rom-com and then it gets like progressively darker. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah, where everybody's very traumatized. And then the authors like brought it back as Seasons of Love Sum. And now they all like ga they all hang out at this one cafe together, and it's like very lighthearted. Everyone's in college or like working now. And so it's like all of your trauma's been healed and now you get to have all this like full circle. Yeah. It's very, I love it. So that's what I look forward to every Wednesday. Seasons of Love Sum.

Amanda:

I

Samantha:

love that. I read that, I read the Kiss bet. I've read a lot of other ones. A lot of that have finished. Okay.

Amanda:

Yeah. Wow. I've never gotten into WebToons, but like now maybe I should.'cause you should. They're

Samantha:

yeah, they can really, they'll suck you in

Amanda:

it sounds like it. Okay. What's one piece of advice you'd give to your, either your younger writing self or to perhaps other aspiring artists or authors who are our artists? Let's be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Out there.

Samantha:

I think the number one thing is to keep going. I think there's so much rejection in publishing. There's rejection before you even get to publishing. There's, the mentor programs and different like contests and things like that you'll do as you're like coming up. And even just the. Tougher critiques of your writing. Mm-hmm. Such as getting flamed in the comment section of fanfiction.net. Don't let it discourage you as a child. Yeah. As a child. I feel like just keep writing the thing that you want to write. I think so many of us are like what does that, what do people wanna read? Now? We're always trying to write the thing that is popular now. And I think that the important thing is to write the thing that you want to read, because the thing that's popular now probably won't be popular forever. Mm-hmm. For very long. Mm-hmm. And so if you're writing the thing that you wanna read, chances are someone else is gonna wanna read that. And I think especially looking at a lot of the indie books that have gotten big. You would never guess that. There was an audience for something like that. Mm-hmm. Like Ice Planet Barbarians. Oh yeah. Who saw that coming? No one saw that coming so popular too. I'm like, if you and I'm like, so someone out there right now is writing something, they're writing the next Ice Planet barbarians and they have been rejected by every agent and every publisher. And it's like, buddy, you've got it. You just, yeah. As my mom once famously told me when I was changing my major five times, follow your heart.

Amanda:

You the thing you want. Great advice. Yes. Solid advice at any time, honestly. And also, yeah, if you're writing when everyone else is writing, the competition is so much stiffer too, because it's like mm-hmm. You're all just putting out the same thing to the same publishers, the same agents. And it's like, okay, we've seen this a million times. Like it's so derivative. Exactly.

Samantha:

Yeah.

Amanda:

And it feels

Samantha:

so formulaic when you are trying to write something that you don't care about. I feel like when you really love what you're writing, people can feel it. Yeah. So true. Totally.

Kelsey:

Yeah. Yes. So true. Love that advice. The next section we're gonna get into is our final section where we're going to go through some of the books that we have covered on the podcast and ask you whether or not they are lit. Its or quid itts. Okay. Dun. Okay. It's like a rapid fire. So Amanda, do you wanna start the first one and then we can go back and forth, especially

Amanda:

cause this one was, actually the first one was a, I think it was a soft lit it for me, or soft lit it. Anyhow. Okay. First book is. Aar, A quart of Thorns and roses by Sarah J. Mass Lit it or quit it.

Samantha:

It's a lit quit for me. Say It is a quit lit Quit. If we get into Don't say that one too fast. That might be It's Aquit. It's Aquit. Yeah. Aquit. I would say there's so much about it that hits and so much about it that mm-hmm. That quits. Yeah. I was right there with you stuck in the middle. That's so fair.

Kelsey:

Yeah. Okay. Divine Rivals by Rebecca Ross lit it or quit it lit it. Yes. Oh God, I do next.

Amanda:

Okay. Don't listen to our episode on that because I completely ripped that book a new one.

Samantha:

Oh, that's fine. I have no feelings about the books. If I love a book and someone else hates it, I'm like, that's

Amanda:

cool. It's your pre, we're not gonna fight about it. There are

Samantha:

so many other things to fight about.

Amanda:

So true. Okay, next up. Twilight by Stephanie Myers.

Samantha:

That's a lit it. The ancient text. I love that. Love that. You call it ancient text. It is at

Amanda:

this point, which is so sad'cause we're

Kelsey:

so old.

Samantha:

I honestly Okay, we're ancient.

Kelsey:

Great Big, beautiful Life by Emily Henry.

Samantha:

It was the, I would say a acquit a lit, it was, I was so in for so much of it. Yeah. And I was mostly in, I'll say it was a soft lit.

Amanda:

A soft lit, okay. I'm sorry. That's what it wasn't my

Samantha:

favorite. And I'm an Emily Henry, you know, super fan. Like So many, I feel she can do no wrong, better than most books. We'll just say that. Yeah.

Amanda:

I also liked the fact that both your protagonist and the Roman arrangement and the female protagonist and great big beautiful life are tall.'cause as a tall person, I'm like, none of these female protagonists and these romances are covered tiny, tall they're also like these tiny little petite things. I'm like, ugh.

Samantha:

Yeah. No I don't believe in height difference. None of my love interests are tall and none of my main characters are teeny tiny.

Amanda:

Thank you. I appreciate it so much. Okay, next up The Love Hypothesis by Ali Hazelwood. It

Samantha:

was Litted.

Amanda:

Okay. Yeah. Okay. I, we technically haven't. Recorded the episode for that yet, so I cannot say Yeah. What my response is. Okay.

Kelsey:

But it'll be by the time this drops personally. And then Ally Wood, Hazel, ally. Ha Hazel. Ha ally, wood hazel. Yeah. I think that is her real name. I have an Ali Hazelwood stand. And it all started with bride. Oh God. That Plus I just, yeah. Cannot believe that. Next. How about Fourth Wing By Rebecca? Rebecca Yaros. Goodness. That is a lit

Samantha:

it. I, what did she put in that thing? That thing is drugged. I was, it was like, I was like, I've, listen, I've never done like, put it in my though. I feel as though this is what it feels like to do cocaine. As

Kelsey:

I also felt that way, I was like, oh my God, I wanna know more. I wanna know more. Mm-hmm. And like the book was over. Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely entertaining. I

Samantha:

will get that out. I was thorough. Entertaining. It was entertaining. Yeah. I was thorough. Entertaining. I wasn't like dissecting it. Like literature. I was like, yeah. Oh no, I'm here for good times. Yeah, I'm having a good time.

Amanda:

Yeah. Yep. Okay. Another s Sarah J math a Court of Miston Fury. Is that the second one? Yeah, that's the second one.

Samantha:

The second one's a lit. Okay.

Amanda:

Yeah. Yeah. I think we all agree on that. That's what I got. I was like, okay, you're finding your stride. I like these people. When she

Samantha:

threw that shoe at him, I was like, we're in,

Amanda:

I

Samantha:

am in, this is

Amanda:

the

Kelsey:

one I committed that let's go. Yeah. How about the third book, A Court of Wings and Ruin?

Samantha:

That was acquitted. Okay. I was like, oh, we're on the train now. Let's go. I know. I really thought I was all in and then I, yeah. I can really be like that too. Sometimes I get to a third book and I'm like, I'm just ready for it to be over.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Samantha:

Yeah. That's fair.

Amanda:

I had the complete opposite experience. I was like, yes. That it was my favorite out of all of them. I love And you were ramping

Samantha:

up and I was doing a little bit of the rollercoaster,

Amanda:

like I, and you said you read Nests book, no. Or you didn't. Oh, you knew. You only read the first three. Okay. That's right. Okay. And then our last one, sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins.

Samantha:

Lit

Amanda:

it. Lit. It

Samantha:

also cannot wait for,

Amanda:

movie.

Samantha:

The film. The movie. Oh my gosh. I the trailer 10,000 times. I can't stop watching it. I am like about to redownload TikTok just to see the edits because I'm all in. It was like, I read that book and then I immediately went back down the Rabbit Hole of Hunger Games, which I had not reread since it came out, which is when I was in college. Mm-hmm. And I did the audio books, which is Oh wow. Tati Masani from Orphan Black. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. She was amazing. She does all the voices. Wow. So good. Then I check that, re-watched all the movies. I mean I was like deep in the rabbit, deep dive. I was like sending four, five minute long voice notes to my friends and they were like please go lay down. Stop.

Amanda:

Oh, they were like, just start a podcast. Yeah. Honestly, hunger Games. Laura,

Kelsey:

hang out with Amanda and Kelsey.

Amanda:

Yes. Oh my gosh. So much fun. Thank you so much for hanging out with us today. We are so very excited for folks to get their hands on the Ruit arrangement, which drops tomorrow. Thank you. January 27th, 2026. So where can folks find you, Sam? Like where they can they connect with you? Social's website. Let us know.

Samantha:

Instagram is probably the best. It's Sam Markum.'cause unfortunately Sam Markham was already taken. I guess there's many of us out there. So Sam Markum, I'm Sam Markum on Threads, but I'm not doing much on there. Okay. There's not much going on there. Not many thoughts. Yeah, Instagram is probably the best, or my website, which is samantha markham.com. My whole name for the website, of course. Samantha markham.com.

Amanda:

And can they order your book directly from your website or,

Samantha:

There are some buy links on my website, but they all go to different, I've got bookshop, I've got my local indie, the novel neighbor. You can always order from them. Yeah. Okay.

Amanda:

Awesome. Well, It has been such a blast hanging out with you this evening, getting to know more about you and your process and your characters and your stories and talking about Stranger Things, of course. But of course we really appreciate it. And as a reminder, Kelsey, do you wanna direct folks to our socials one more time?

Kelsey:

Yes. So please go check us out on Instagram at Live Vibes Only podcast. And we're also on TikTok and YouTube at Live Vibes only podcast. Mm-hmm. And of course, you can always email us if you have questions or wanna reach out. Samantha and her team reached out via email to give us these arcs and we were like, Hey, yes, please do you wanna come on our podcast, come hang out with us. And that's how all of this happened. So you just never know. Magical things happen over email. Of course. Take the time right now to go rate and review our podcast either on Apple or Spotify. We really appreciate it and appreciate the love.

Amanda:

Yes. Awesome. Thank you guys so much for hanging out and we'll see you next Monday. Bye bye bye.