Lit Vibes Only
Kelsey and Amanda are two book besties who love to "Lit the Sh*t" out of books they love and hate! In their Lit it or Quit It episodes, Kelsey and Amanda are forced to read the other's favorite books. While Amanda loves to read historical fiction and mystery/thrillers, you'll find Kelsey curled up with just about any romantasy. They discuss the books at length and, in the end, decide whether the book is a "Lit It" or "Quit It"! Every month they'll also give some book recs you just can't miss. Look out for the bonus episodes about bookish topics and books that were adapted into movies/shows.
Listen in and choose whose side you're on, or perhaps find yourself intrigued by a book you wouldn't normally go for. See you on Mondays!
Lit Vibes Only
Ep. 64: Lit Chats: Books We Can’t Stop Thinking About
Join Amanda and Kelsey as they passionately discuss the books that haunt their minds—ranging from gritty thrillers and epic fantasies to profound reflections on spirituality. Prepare for thoughtful and heated debates, unexpected emotional outbursts, and a deep dive into the books that left them both inspired and conflicted.
00:00 Welcome to Lit Vibes Only!
00:24 Engage with Us on Social Media
00:57 The Importance of Ratings and Reviews
02:22 Our Current Reads
05:52 Blood Over Bright Haven by ML Wang
10:25 Sanctuary by Paola Mendoza
14:24 In the Garden of Beasts by Erik Larson
22:23 Heat of the Everflame by Penn Cole
29:49 All the Sinners Bleed by SA Cosby
35:40 Anita de Monte Laughs Last by Xochtil Gonzalez
47:15 Everything is Spiritual by Rob Bell
53:48 All My Rage by Sabaa Tahir
58:28 Recap and Final Thoughts
Follow us on TikTok & Youtube @litvibesonlypodcast and on Instagram @litvibesonly_podcast. You can also email us at litvibesonlypodcast@gmail.com We'd love to hear from you!
See you on Mondays!
Ep. 64: Lit Chats: Books We Can't Stop Thinking About
[00:00:00] Amanda: Welcome to Lit Vibes Only, where we lit the shit out of books we love and hate. I'm Amanda, the insightful, thrill seeker, and historical fiction nerd.
[00:00:13] Kelsey: And I'm Kelsey, the unhinged, diehard romantic and fantasy reader.
[00:00:17] Kelsey: Welcome please come see us and come hang out on our socials. We are on Instagram at Live Vibes Only underscore podcast, and on TikTok and YouTube at Live Vibes only podcast where we have plenty for you to engage with so much content.
[00:00:36] Kelsey: We are, it's so much content and especially we mentioned this in a previous podcast episode that we met with a social media like advisor, especially consultant. Consultant. And we have been going hard on content we have and switching it up. So it's a vibe over there. So enjoy us, go enjoy our hard work.
[00:00:55] Amanda: Go enjoy our hard work. Yeah.
[00:00:57] Kelsey: The other thing that we would love for you to [00:01:00] look at and engage with is completing a rating and review for. Us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It goes a really long way and we're almost to 30 ratings on Apple, I think. Yeah. And, or maybe that's Spotify. I can't remember.
[00:01:16] Kelsey: There's an either way, almost 30 on one of them. We'll take. And we can get there. We can get there, guys, with your help. Takes two seconds to rate. Yes. And like a minute to review. So
[00:01:27] Amanda: yeah, we'll do that. Oh, you're right. It's 26 on Spotify, so we're getting there. And like again, it might seem like a small thing and it truly isn't.
[00:01:36] Amanda: It does wonders for our visibility and our overall ability to attract new listeners and have more folks join our community. Exactly. So we are so appreciative of all of you who have done it already, and all of you who are going to do it today, as soon as this episode ends right now, a second or right now, just pause it, come back.
[00:01:56] Amanda: We're not going anywhere. We promise we'll be here when you return. I don't even think
[00:01:59] Kelsey: you have to [00:02:00] pause it, Amanda. I think you just like you're continue listening, you can express it. I guess that's ask
[00:02:03] Amanda: true. I just, I guess I always think. I guess if you're driving there, you shouldn't be doing that anyway.
[00:02:08] Amanda: Anyhow, anyhow, just be safe. Wherever you're, when you're safe, when you are safe and able to look at your phone. You don't even have to pause. Yeah. Hit that five star rating and then write us review later if you feel so inclined. That would also be a huge benefit to us. And, after you listen to our episode today, you can join in the conversation that Kelsey and I are gonna have and let us notebooks that you can't stop thinking about.
[00:02:30] Amanda: Just a great way to connect with us and get your voice heard as well. So, um, We're excited. We I love these Lit chat episodes that are a bit more free form and less structured and we get to just like truly chat. It feels like
[00:02:44] Kelsey: an exhale after the other episodes do, after you have to the little or
[00:02:47] Amanda: quitted episodes.
[00:02:48] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Yay. Those are a little bit more of a lift in terms of prep and structure. Yeah. And so this is more of just Kelsey and I, if we were in person just chatting about the books that we've read recently. Yeah. And things [00:03:00] that have impressed us or not. But what are you currently reading right now, Kelsey?
[00:03:06] Kelsey: I think I, I might have mentioned this on a previous episode. But one book that I am about to start is code name Helene. Oh, code name Helene. Yeah. You mentioned that. Yeah. Yeah. Previous, I have yet to start
[00:03:18] Amanda: it,
[00:03:19] Kelsey: but I'm
[00:03:19] Amanda: about to. Okay. Super excited to hear what you think about that.
[00:03:23] Amanda: 'Cause I really enjoyed it and I found it to be very educational and it's like one
[00:03:26] Kelsey: of my first historical fiction that I'm like reading on my own. Yeah. You're just reading on your own.
[00:03:30] Amanda: Look at that. Look what this, what the heck podcast is doing. Truly changing lives. Changing lives out here is my life.
[00:03:36] Amanda: What we're doing really matters. That's exciting. I am also about to start a book that Kelsey, oh, she's actually making me read it, which I mentioned in the previous episode, which is Quicksilver. So I am going to be starting that momentarily and. I cannot say that I'm thrilled if I'm being perfectly frank, it's all for the good of the podcast.
[00:03:57] Amanda: So I hope you all appreciate the work, [00:04:00] enormous sacrifice that I making and this suffering that is soon to be mine as I dive into this icky tome of a romantic novel. I don't have
[00:04:10] Kelsey: high hopes for you enjoying the book. Yeah, I don't, but I don't, I do think you'll like at least one certain character. I have hopes about that.
[00:04:20] Amanda: I guess the only high hopes I have at this point is that it's gonna make for a really entertaining episode, podcast episode. Yeah, absolutely. 'cause we tend to have the most fun when we hate each other's books. So buckle up, y'all. Buckle up for, what will that be in? No, that'll be December. Yeah. Yeah, that'll be Decembers and Brimstone comes out very shortly, which I will definitely be reading.
[00:04:39] Amanda: Is this ultimately gonna be a series or a duology or a trilogy series? It's a series. Okay. Oh, I actually have no idea.
[00:04:45] Kelsey: I have no idea. Okay. It might be a trilogy.
[00:04:47] Amanda: Okay.
[00:04:48] Kelsey: I don't know, I guess we'll
[00:04:49] Amanda: find out. I won't find out. I don't think it's a duology. Okay. I don't know though. We shall see.
[00:04:54] Amanda: So yeah, make sure to stay tuned for that episode and read along with us if you would [00:05:00] like. But today's Lit Chats episode is just about books that Kelsey and I have read and we like, just can't stop thinking about them. So I feel like sometimes these Lit Chat episodes also turn into Lit Rex episodes because we're like this, you gotta read this book and you should read it for these reasons.
[00:05:16] Amanda: Or yeah. We did the spooky episode, last month. So yeah. So this is like a lit Rex episode in a way. Mm-hmm. I mean, We love these books and hopefully you will too.
[00:05:29] Kelsey: Totally.
[00:05:30] Amanda: Yeah. So we each have, have four. Yeah. Books that we're gonna talk about. Some of these I've read currently, some of these I read a while ago.
[00:05:38] Amanda: And for me personally, this was very unintentional, but I ended up with four books from four very different genres, which is fun. So hopefully there'll be something for everyone in this episode. Okay. Yeah. Do you want me to start or do you wanna go first? Yeah, go ahead and start. Okay, cool. So I'm gonna start with the book that I read most [00:06:00] recently.
[00:06:00] Amanda: Out of my list. And it is actually a book that we're gonna be featuring on the podcast. Also next month? Yes. Also next month in December. And it is Blood Over BrightHaven by Emma Wong. I spoke at length. I'm so curious about it, about this video on TikTok already on Instagram already. Oh. So if you aren't following us on our socials, you should do that and you can go ahead and scroll to that video and check out my thoughts there, because I had quite a few.
[00:06:29] Kelsey: Yeah.
[00:06:29] Amanda (2): Really quickly, in a nutshell, and this is a spoiler free episode 'cause we want you guys to go out and read these books, but in a nutshell, the premise of this book, it's a fantasy novel and it takes place in a world that has magic. And it follows this young woman who. Just wants to be a high m in the magistrate.
[00:06:47] Amanda (2): So she wants to be able to practice magic and reach this level of success, which at this point, women have not been allowed into the magistrate. It's all been men. Okay. And so we're essentially following this [00:07:00] very ambitious young women. As she takes the examination, she does ultimately get in.
[00:07:04] Amanda (2): That's not really a spoiler. You find that at the very beginning, and it tracks her journey. The reason why I cannot stop thinking about this book, and again, no spoilers, but once you find out how the magic works in this world and what makes it work, it will. Destroy you destroy you. It's just it's devastating and horrifying.
[00:07:28] Amanda (2): And this is also not a spoiler really, because this happens within the first five pages of the book, Uhhuh, the book like opens with essentially a massacre. So you just have this really shocking, violent opening to this story that just knocks the wind out of you before you've even gotten your footing in the story.
[00:07:46] Amanda (2): And it is just like a, oh, there it is. Kelsey's holding it up for folks who are on YouTube. It just snowballs from there. It like, you just get strapped in and it's a nonstop ride.
[00:07:57] Amanda (2): And the other thing that I really loved about this book, [00:08:00] I don't read a lot of fantasy in general. And it very explicitly and very thoughtfully talks about, or connects the story to so many pressing. Current issues in our society. Okay. Around racism and sexism and injustice and colonization and gen. Like all of these things. And in a way that doesn't feel too like preachy or too on the nose.
[00:08:30] Kelsey: You can
[00:08:30] Amanda: easily see how and why this society came to be, why people feel justified in its existence and are defending it. And you can see such clear parallels to our own world and our own country. So it's also just incredibly. Poignant and compelling, and it's gonna make you stop and think. So I loved that so much.
[00:08:52] Amanda: I think the only negative thing I would say about this book would be if you are not a fantasy reader, such as myself, [00:09:00] some of the magic system and how it works can get a little technical and convoluted and there's like diagrams and things, but Oh yeah. Honestly, yeah. Honestly, if you let that just wash over you and don't get too caught up and it does not in any way detract from your reading experience or like your understanding of the text.
[00:09:21] Amanda: Okay. So I don't let that dissuade you. 'cause I got a couple pages and I was like, oh, like I don't wanna have to think this hard. Yeah. And then I just let it go and focus on the plot and the characters and I had no issues like tracking. It didn't end any way. Leave me like, wait, what just happened?
[00:09:37] Amanda: So don't let it throw you. I've told Kelsey this, I think I mentioned this in the TikTok video that I made. If I was in fact an English teacher I would have my kids read this. Okay. This would absolutely be required reading in my class. I can just think of all the different discussions and projects I would build out from this text.
[00:09:54] Amanda: Very cool. As an educator, I also was thrilled by this book and the way that [00:10:00] it presents. That's great. The ideas and arguments that it's making. Okay. Oh my gosh, it's so good. Can't wait for Kelsey to read it. I cannot wait to discuss it on the podcast. This is one book where if Kelsey doesn't like it or like really hates it, I might be a little devastated,
[00:10:17] Kelsey: so we'll see.
[00:10:17] Kelsey: Okay. Yeah, we'll see, yeah. Oh, man. Yep. All righty. Thank you for your first pick, Amanda. You're so welcome. So , my first pick, and I had to narrow it down because I had six initially. I was like, oh my god, this one, oh yeah. And this one. Oh my gosh. But the first one I wanted to highlight is Sanctuary by Paula Mendoza.
[00:10:39] Kelsey: And this was a book that one of my friends Maria Hi Maria recommended to us on the podcast and ba essentially like this. Book is a dystopian type book based in the us [00:11:00] but also it's quite unnerving because it's essentially, it's not far off. Okay. And especially with everything going on with immigration right now.
[00:11:14] Kelsey: It's like a huge spotlight on immigration.
[00:11:16] Amanda: Okay.
[00:11:17] Kelsey: And it was written years ago, not I feel like it was in the 20, like early, like 2020 or 2019. Okay. Maybe you could look it up. I'll look it up. And so it's not exactly about what's happening right now, but it very much relates and it, it's quite scary and, essentially the characters. It's a ya novel by the way, and the characters are immigrants here in the United States from a different country. And in this world people are being essentially taken because they are immigrants, right? Or illegally here. And that's not far off from what we're seeing right now.
[00:11:59] Kelsey: [00:12:00] Yeah. It does go a bit further, in like its depiction, but it's just a very compelling book for you to really get your head in the space of this is, this could be reality. And Yeah. It. Even though the actions are not quite as far, the emotional impact it's having on people and families is very much the same and real.
[00:12:23] Kelsey: Where it does depict like a family being separated and trying to find one another again. So it is, it's a very moving book and something that we should all be having in the forefront of our minds. Yeah. Wow. Now. And so it, and it's a really accessible read. Okay. It's very, is it wild?
[00:12:42] Kelsey: Yes. It's ya. Okay. Okay. And. It's just, it's a very, it's a very good and eyeopening and relatable novel. Yeah.
[00:12:52] Amanda: It sounds insanely timely and relevant. I just checked and it was published in 2020, so not too long ago. And immigration has [00:13:00] been an issue at the forefront for many years, even before all of the things happening with ice and ice raids right now.
[00:13:05] Amanda: But yeah, it makes sense that that is a book that would stick with you, especially given Yes. The social and political climate and what's happening in our country. I just marked it on my Good reads as want to read, so I Yep.
[00:13:17] Kelsey: I wish you read that. Read it. I can pick it
[00:13:18] Amanda: up because yeah, that sounds depressant,
[00:13:22] Kelsey: it really steps into also like when people are scared like the links that they'll go to.
[00:13:27] Amanda: Yeah. Fear is a huge motivator to survive. Yeah. Or to
[00:13:30] Kelsey: Push. An idea forward. Yeah. Like it's very intense and real. Yeah. Yeah. In my opinion,
[00:13:35] Amanda: If you look at a lot of, politicians', rhetoric, a lot of it is fear-based, right? Getting people motivated by making them concerned for their wellbeing, the wellbeing of their children, their families, their jobs. Whatever it might be. Like, it's such an effective, unfortunately motivator. And so there's a lot of fear mongering that happens, especially around the immigration issue, right?
[00:13:56] Amanda: They're coming for your jobs, they're bringing drugs into the country. They're all criminals, whatever it might [00:14:00] be. Yeah. And so then it's like, well you just wanna take care of yourself. You wanna take care of your loved ones. Exactly. And it's yeah, incredibly harmful. So yeah.
[00:14:08] Amanda: Oh my gosh. That's a great first pick. Yeah, I am definitely gonna read that one. You definitely need to, I know by the end of this some of them are already on my list that you've read. Yeah. And one of them we read together. Yeah. One of 'em I'm not gonna read but you'll read
[00:14:20] Kelsey: the first book in this series.
[00:14:21] Kelsey: Yes, I will.
[00:14:23] Amanda: We'll get to that in a moment. Okay. So my next book is like shifting pretty drastically in terms of genres. Yeah. This is a historical nonfiction book written by my favorite historical nonfiction author, Eric Larson. Oh, I have read. Three of his books at this point. Thunderstruck In the Garden.
[00:14:42] Amanda: Favorite though. What was that
[00:14:44] Kelsey: your favorite though?
[00:14:45] Amanda: Yeah, this is my favorite for sure. I've read other historical nonfiction authors who are great. Oh, historical nonfiction. Yes. Okay. Yes. Oh yeah. Historical nonfiction. Historical fiction. I just lay, yeah, I, historical nonfiction. He's the only it historical nonfiction author that I [00:15:00] have read multiple of his books.
[00:15:02] Amanda: Okay. For most other people, it's just like a one off. Yeah. So I've read Thunderstruck, I've read in The Garden of Beast, which is what I'm gonna talk about today. And then I most recently read The Devil in the White City. And then I have dead Wake, which is the story of the Lusitania on my TBR.
[00:15:16] Amanda: The reason why this particular book of his stuck with me was there was a couple of things. One, it was the first book of his that I read, so it was like my introduction to Eric Marson and like the way that he crafts. Historical nonfiction.
[00:15:31] Amanda: Two, and I mentioned this to Kelsey the other day when we were out at a cocktail bar together, one of the things that puts me off about historical nonfiction is that if it's done poorly, it just reads like a really dry, dense academic Right. Textbook. And I find that very off-putting because narrative is important to me. Connecting to the people in these stories is important to me. Putting the humanity like first and foremost in this stories is so important.
[00:15:57] Amanda: And he does such a great job of [00:16:00] Yes, giving you the detailed information, the factual information about what was going on, but also telling the story and humanizing in a way that makes it very accessible, very relatable. Fascinating, engaging. And so this book in particular really grabbed me and I have never really stopped thinking about it.
[00:16:21] Amanda: It's because it's focusing on one of my favorite periods of history, which is the World War II era. And in this particular book, he follows the story of the US Ambassador to Germany, William dod, right As Hitler was rising to power. And William Dodd is like this bookish academic guy. He worked at a university, I think the University of Chicago has his PhD and so he's thrust into this political position.
[00:16:47] Amanda: And sent over there just to keep an eye on what the Germans are up to post World War I. Right? So after World War I. Germany was basically punished and, was what was it? Making reparations [00:17:00] essentially and paying their dues for Yeah. The destruction they caused in World War I, the chaos they caused.
[00:17:05] Amanda: And so basically we're keeping an eye on making sure, like Germany's paying back the money, were paying us the money that we are owed as the United States. And the thing that was fascinating about this book is that you see this guy, William dod living in Nazi Germany right at kind of the beginning of all of this.
[00:17:23] Amanda: So it's early to mid 1930s. I think he was there from like 1933 to 1937 or something. Okay. And he is like writing this correspondence back to the United States. It's like, Hey guys, things are getting a little crazy over here. I don't know how much we wanna be like, either turning a blind eye to this Hitler dude and or endorsing him.
[00:17:44] Amanda: And the United States is like, look, as long as they're paying their bills, like we don't care. Just keep on keeping on. Damn. And so you just see. It's really frightening how it progresses. You get this front row. Yeah. You get this front row seat to the progression, right?
[00:17:59] Amanda: Of the Nazi [00:18:00] party as they're starting this, essentially like reign of terror and how these things happen. 'cause it's easy in hindsight to be like, oh my gosh, like Hitler, the Nazis, horrible, awful atrocious. But it's like it all started somewhere, right? At some point someone had to be like, yeah, this is okay.
[00:18:14] Amanda: Yeah, we're fine with this and that continual, yeah, we're fine with it. Yes, it's okay. It's not that big of a deal. Stop being an alarmist until you get to this point where millions of people are being slaughtered and taken from their homes. Yeah. And put in, into ghettos. So I just I don't know.
[00:18:27] Amanda: I just, I still think about this book and even looking at our current political situation, right? It freaks me out because you see these changes happening, these decisions being made these actions taking place in this political sphere, and you're like. This is how these things start. And people are like ringing alarm bells and writing editorials and protesting and all of this stuff.
[00:18:51] Amanda: And everyone's like, oh, it's fine. Like you're being an alarmist, it's not that big of a deal. Yeah. And history repeats itself , unless we go back and learn those lessons. And so [00:19:00] anyway, I don't wanna go on this whole like, rant, rave, soapbox moment, but let's do it. It just really deeply resonated with me.
[00:19:07] Amanda: It was a story that I had never encountered in any of my history classes. In school. And yeah, getting again, a front seat to the rise of this horrible political party and all the atrocities that they ended up committing was just really eyeopening for me. Yeah, as a human being, as a learner.
[00:19:27] Amanda: And then of course , it made me wanna read more of his work as well. So it's very much like a catalyst for that. But Wow. Oh, if you, I, I think of reading this book now in 2025 might have been too much 'cause because this too, it hits too close to home. But, so maybe, yeah, I can only imagine.
[00:19:44] Kelsey: I was like, and look at our freaking
[00:19:47] Amanda: world right now. .
[00:19:47] Amanda: Yeah, exactly. Imagine an ambassador right now from a foreign country in the United States writing home to Germany maybe, or to Spain or whatever. Like, This is what's happening in this country. Ah, country.
[00:19:57] Amanda: Wild. Yeah, that book just, it [00:20:00] really blew, blew my mind and just also reminded me how much I enjoy both historical fiction and historical nonfiction. Like, I love, I love history.
[00:20:08] Kelsey: I actually, when you were talking about this, I was like, oh, I've read historical nonfiction before. Yeah. A book that you need to read Amanda
[00:20:18] Amanda: Yes.
[00:20:18] Kelsey: That you still have yet to, is it the
[00:20:19] Amanda: autobiography of Malcolm X?
[00:20:21] Kelsey: No, but yes. Also that one. Okay.
[00:20:24] Amanda: You do need to
[00:20:25] Kelsey: read that now one too, but no.
[00:20:27] Kelsey: Mediocre by EGO. Oh
[00:20:29] Amanda: yeah.
[00:20:30] Kelsey: Yes. You. Is that to read
[00:20:31] Amanda: that one? Is it like historical nonfiction or is it just Okay.
[00:20:35] Kelsey: Yeah, it is. Okay. Although what were you gonna say? 'cause maybe I'm wrong.
[00:20:38] Amanda: 'Cause there's a, there, there is overlap. So there's books that are using historical events to lay out an overarching argument about something, which I think is what she's doing in that book.
[00:20:49] Amanda: She's talking about. Isn't it about like the, like white, what is it? It's like white men, mediocre white
[00:20:55] Kelsey: men throughout history in the United States and how they've perpetuated essentially [00:21:00] what is it called? Supremacy? White supremacy. White supremacy. And like the patriarchy racism. Yeah.
[00:21:03] Amanda: So I think that would also, that would fall in the, underneath the umbrella of historical fiction.
[00:21:08] Amanda: But I think sometimes the slight difference, it's that in this particular novel, like in The Garden of Beast, Eric Larson isn't necessarily trying to craft an argument and support it using historical evidence. He's just recounting the events. Whereas in mediocre, I GMA is like, I am proving this argument that I've made, like this thesis Yeah.
[00:21:27] Amanda: Uhhuh by showing this historical progression. Yeah, I do think, yeah. So I think there's, but there's definitely overlap right there. Yeah. Because you're learning about history and like all of these events that led to this point. Yeah,
[00:21:36] Kelsey: because they, she's definitely, yes, she definitely has a thesis overall.
[00:21:39] Kelsey: Yeah. Through the book, but her voice isn't necessarily the main. Factor in here. There it is definitely like going through like history and facts and yeah. Like that. Yeah. But also like thinking about an indigenous people's history of the United States.
[00:21:52] Kelsey: Have you read that one? I have not. I'm curious if it is historical nonfiction or not. It sounds like it if it's just walking us through [00:22:00] like Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Anyway, genres have always been like a bit tricky for me and just like I'm curious about when you say tricky,
[00:22:07] Amanda: do you mean like engaging with certain genres?
[00:22:10] Amanda: Or No. What I mean
[00:22:11] Kelsey: identifying which is which. Oh, Oh yeah. For sure. At times. Yeah. And they all overlap often. Oh
[00:22:16] Amanda: yeah.
[00:22:16] Kelsey: And so yeah, I'm like, okay, there's lots of crossover. It's not just yeah. Not that clear cut one or the other, or, yeah. It never is. Okay. We are changing. Shifting gears. I don't know what I wanted to say, but yes.
[00:22:29] Kelsey: Shifting gears a bit. A lot. Thank you. Two. One of my absolute favorite. Oh yes. This is like why I have my die hard. Like label, I am highlighting Heat of the Ever Flame by Pen Cole. And this is the third book in the series. And the reason why I chose this book is because the fourth book is still not out.
[00:22:54] Kelsey: Yeah. And Pen Cole is driving all of us crazy and like I want Pen Cole to understand [00:23:00] like I fully respect her and I really appreciate her taking time to make sure this book is perfect. And also, but it is so painful to wait and never to have any updates about Oh my God. When the book is coming out. So that's frustrating over the summer.
[00:23:16] Kelsey: So like what happened was she got picked up by she was an indie author at first for the first three books of this series. And then she got picked up by a publisher. They stop selling all of her books, right? And then they republish them. We do editing, republish.
[00:23:32] Kelsey: I have the books. They're actually on this shelf over here. You can see them. Oh, I can see them. Yeah. I can see the top of 'em. See? Oh my God. Right there. Yeah. Yeah. And they're really chunky. And that's what happens with indie authors is they don't have the same kind of editing as with a publisher.
[00:23:48] Kelsey: And so they end up being like pretty big books. And that's what we ended up with. And every book ends on this awful cliffhanger and just makes [00:24:00] you
[00:24:03] Kelsey: Spiral into what is going to happen in the next book. And the next book is the final book. Okay. It's called Burn of the Ever Flame. And that is supposed to be coming out soon. But there's no date. We literally have no idea when. Okay. That's annoying. It was supposed to be like this year sometime, and now it's like, oh, okay.
[00:24:20] Kelsey: I don't know that it's gonna happen this year. Okay. And I remember seeing some people are getting arcs of burn and Oh so it's done. I don't know.
[00:24:32] Amanda: If you have an arc, like it's basically done. Like they're only making really tiny tweaks at that point. I don't know. I, again, I don't
[00:24:39] Kelsey: know.
[00:24:40] Kelsey: Okay. I don't, because what happened was when she transitioned to becoming, yeah. Like someone, oh my God. Publish. She's not a publisher, but like she has Yes. A publishing house. Yeah. Yeah. The book was set to come out a certain date and then they postponed. And then there was another postpone date.
[00:24:57] Kelsey: And so now she's like, I don't wanna do this to my readers [00:25:00] anymore. I see. And give them a date and not be able to fulfill it. Yeah. That's which I understand. But then on the backside it's like any sort of window, you were just being torture, tortured, give us something. But one of the reasons why I really love this book is, and I know you're gonna hate it.
[00:25:15] Kelsey: You're gonna hate it because the first book, you're only gonna read the first book and we are gonna read alongside when Burn Comes out.
[00:25:22] Amanda: Okay.
[00:25:22] Kelsey: It's Spark of the Ever Flame and dms character. She's the FFMC and she is just so realistic in my opinion. She comes off really annoying to other people, but there is a reason behind like her decisions.
[00:25:41] Kelsey: And she is. Constantly between a rock and a hard place. Every single decision she makes. Because she realizes throughout her journey, like any decision she makes is affecting everyone around her. And she's not able to just make decisions for herself.
[00:25:55] Kelsey: She has to be able to make decisions that are good for the [00:26:00] majority of people. And that's really hard on her because she doesn't want to leave anyone behind. She wants good for all and she wants to protect the people in her family, in her village, in her community, and government as a whole.
[00:26:13] Kelsey: But she can't do that because somebody's going to be hurt along the way. And she's like grappling with this her entire journey. And I really love that about her. And. Also, there's an amazing love story in this book. Of course, it is a very slow burn. Okay, I love that. And love it.
[00:26:31] Kelsey: And you won't even get any smut in the first book, Amanda.
[00:26:35] Amanda: Oh, that's excellent. Yeah.
[00:26:37] Kelsey: So you like it for that,
[00:26:39] Amanda: honestly, like hearing you talk about her character and the struggles that she faces and yeah, you can never make a decision that's gonna be good for everyone and all of that. Like what a conflict that is.
[00:26:53] Amanda: Yes. It does make me more intrigued about the series. Good. We'll see if it reflects
[00:26:58] Kelsey: when you actually read it. [00:27:00] Yeah. Because like why do you think I won't like it? Because a lot of people just see her as annoying and I, I understand why there are annoying aspects of like her character and her inner dialogue, but it's because of the reasons that I just described to you.
[00:27:14] Kelsey: Okay. There are so just justified, there's meaning behind why she is thinking the things that she's thinking and doing, the things that she's doing. Yeah, she's just very conflicted.
[00:27:25] Amanda: Okay. If there's a good rationale for it, then I would be fine with that. I just don't like it when characters are annoying for the sake of being annoying.
[00:27:30] Amanda: Yes. Or it's not. And that's,
[00:27:32] Kelsey: I don't think. She is annoying for the sake of being annoying. No, not at all. Okay. But I don't think that spark of the ever flame does an amazing job of helping the reader understand that perspective. Okay. So we'll see. We'll see what you think. Okay. It's just that you might need to read more to really understand Amanda.
[00:27:49] Amanda: Yeah. Reading at a thousand page. And I have all the books if you ever want to borrow them, just looking at them makes me feel a bit Ill wait, I have to grab one. Okay.
[00:27:59] Kelsey: This is [00:28:00] so funny because look at this book. I am looking at it. It's in fucking safe. This is, but that one's that's a thousand or is it over a thousand? This is over a thousand pages. Yes. Wait, hold on. No. I thought it was. It looks like it is because I see 700, no, it's only like 800 pages.
[00:28:14] Kelsey: I really thought it was a, oh yeah, there was one that I read that was a thousand pages, but I thought it was that one. Oh, weird. But, oh gosh, what was I gonna say? Oh, the other fun tidbit about these books is I was gifted Spark of the Ever Flame for one of my birthdays, and I didn't read it right away.
[00:28:31] Kelsey: And so I read it like a year later, and it was after this third book was out already. Okay. But she had just. Signed with a publisher. And so she was just at the point of becoming like a real
[00:28:47] Amanda: like a signed Yes. Like author.
[00:28:49] Kelsey: And so all of these were out of print.
[00:28:51] Amanda: Oh, I remember you sharing story when I, yeah.
[00:28:54] Kelsey: Finally read Spark of the Ever Flame. So I paid like $80 for this book.
[00:28:58] Amanda: I remember to [00:29:00]
[00:29:00] Kelsey: find it. And I was reading it, I think it was in October by the time I got to it. And I was on a work trip when I was reading this book and they were like, why did you bring a Bible on our trip? I was like, I'm so religious.
[00:29:12] Kelsey: I am so obsessed with this book. I could not leave at home. And there was no audio at the time of these books. Oh my gosh. You were just like, so what did I have?
[00:29:20] Amanda: What could I do? You had to just read the physical copy.
[00:29:23] Amanda: Okay. So thanks Kelsey. I definitely am like, yeah, I'm more passion, intrigued and less feeling less critical about the series. Perhaps less dread about it now that I've heard more. Yeah. So maybe, maybe it'll surprise me and be like, perhaps. Be like a forbid, alchemy. And I'll like, oh, this is actually great.
[00:29:44] Amanda: And I loved it. Alright. Since I just did a nonfiction book, I'm actually gonna jump to the book that I was gonna talk about at the end. Okay. And this next book is a thriller like crime fiction Oh. Thriller by an author that I discovered this year. And again, if you've been following this podcast, if you [00:30:00] follow us on social media for sure, you'll have heard me like ranting and raving about this author.
[00:30:04] Amanda: But it's all the Sinners Bleed by SA Cosby. And I had never heard of this author before. Didn't really know what their vibe was. So I went into this pretty blind and this was a book that was recommended by a fellow book talker. 'cause I like put out a request like, send me your favorite thriller authors.
[00:30:23] Amanda: And he popped up a couple times. So I started with this book, I believe it came out this year. I think this is his most recent no. Just kidding. King of Ashes is his most recent book. But anyhow, all this inners bleed. Loved it for a bunch of reasons. And it stuck with me.
[00:30:37] Amanda: Honestly. One of the main reasons why it stuck with me was because of the, like the gore, like the intensity of the violence in this book Uhhuh. And it is something that is present in all of his books. I've now read three of his books. Oh, wow. King of Ashes, razorblade Tears in this one. And they're all incredibly gritty and brutal.
[00:30:59] Amanda: That's just a [00:31:00] signature for his novels. But it's not, or mostly it's not like gratuitous violence, like it makes sense for the characters. It makes sense for the setting. It's not just like violence for violence sake. Yeah. And so in this particular novel, the premise is that there's this.
[00:31:20] Amanda: Black sheriff in this small southern, like Bible belt town. He's the first black sheriff in the town, and there's a serial killer on the loose that's doing like these kind of ritualistic killings that are also connected to the Bible. There's these religious themes to it. Interesting. So he's been tasked with uncovering what's going on.
[00:31:40] Amanda: The other thing beyond kind of the brutality in this novel that really gripped me was its portrayal and discussions around race and racism, especially in a southern town in, the 2020s Uhhuh. It was a very thoughtful [00:32:00] handling of the situation because obviously the south. Has a different history with race and racism, slavery than other parts of the country, whether it's out west or more northern states. Mm-hmm. Not to say, obviously that racism doesn't exist there because obviously it does, but there's just a different dynamic between. The history of white and black folks in those communities.
[00:32:23] Amanda: Sure. And so he really takes time to look at the nuance of those relationships because it's not always so simply black and white oh, white people are awful and black people are great, and all of that. Because, and it's interesting not to go off on a tangent, but my grandfather who has now passed, he grew up in Gadson, Alabama.
[00:32:44] Amanda: Okay. And, you know, deep, deep south in the 19, thirties, forties, and oh wow. He would often talk about, and again, this is not indicative of every town in the South by any means, this is just his experience. But it's easy to paint with broad [00:33:00] strokes and be like, yeah, everything was horrible.
[00:33:01] Amanda: And he would talk about how, like in his town, it was very common for both the black and white kids in his neighborhood to get together, play like football in the street, like all hang out, like everyone knew each other. They would help each other, I don't know, in different. Home improvement projects or like sharing sugar or whatever it was.
[00:33:17] Amanda: But at the same time, in this same town there would be like clan marches happening yeah. Every month. And so it's just this weird thing where it's like, there's obviously this violence and tear and fear happening. And at the same time, you do have people. Having meaningful connections with each other.
[00:33:34] Amanda: , It's a little bit of a mind fuck, to be honest. But this novel really dives into some of those intricacies and also the ways in which a lot of people in this out, are still holding onto really problematic beliefs, glorifying the history of the confederacy, the history of slavery, and the impact that it has on both white and black people today.
[00:33:55] Amanda: Yeah. It's just, it's it's such a heavy book, and he does not shy [00:34:00] away from saying the things that need to be said. So it's going to get you thinking, it's probably gonna make you feel uncomfortable.
[00:34:07] Kelsey: Ooh.
[00:34:07] Amanda: Depending on your positionality in a variety of ways. Okay. It's also gonna make you feel uncomfortable too, because of the violence that's being enacted by this serial killer on these victims.
[00:34:17] Amanda: It's a, he, it's a heavy book. Like you do not read S.A. Cosby unless you are in the right frame of mind. It is not a cozy read. It is not feel good. It is not heartwarming. It is just like a slap to the face, but one that you know is meant to wake you up. It's not like I'm slapping you 'cause I'm angry, I'm slapping you 'cause I wanna harm you.
[00:34:38] Amanda: Yeah. It's like, no, wake up and smell the coffee. Like this is the world we live in. Ah. So loved it for that. Cannot stop thinking about it. I, like I said, I've read three of his books. Cannot stop thinking about any of them. And the cool thing that I found out today as I was putting all of this together, there's gonna be a Netflix series.
[00:34:56] Amanda: That's awesome. And they've already announced the cast and I'm like, oh dang. Okay. So [00:35:00] thrilled. Yeah, I think if they do this it's gonna be just as impactful as the novel and we'll get this story out to more people, 'cause there's a lot of folks who are not readers. So also just like an exciting little tidbit and.
[00:35:13] Amanda: Made me super stoked.
[00:35:14] Kelsey: That's
[00:35:15] Amanda: great. Yeah.
[00:35:16] Kelsey: Super excited. Oh, man. It sounds like something Rio would really like, I think. Yes. Oh my
[00:35:20] Amanda: God. Rio would love it. You would not, but Sari would think
[00:35:24] Kelsey: be 1000%
[00:35:25] Amanda: on board.
[00:35:26] Kelsey: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cool. I'll have to tell him about it because Yeah, it did not sound like a book I would land.
[00:35:31] Kelsey: No, you wouldn't like it. But I would probably like the themes of the book. Yes, for sure. Not the actual, the content. Okay. My third pick where do I start? Where do we start with this one? Amanda and I have read this book and I can't, I read it last, last month. We read it last month.
[00:35:51] Amanda: Yeah.
[00:35:51] Amanda: In
[00:35:51] Kelsey: September. And I can't stop thinking about it because it just feels so layered. And, such a compelling story, but it's called [00:36:00] Anita de Monte Lasts Last by Zil Gonzalez Zil. And there's a rapper that I follow and his name is Ska Eska. And they don't, I, so I'm curious about the ending of their names.
[00:36:15] Kelsey: 'cause it does his ends in a TL as well, but it's not pronounced. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:36:19] Amanda: When we were covering this book Yeah, because I was talking about it on TikTok, I did look up her saying her name. Okay. And that's how she pronounced it was Sochi.
[00:36:26] Kelsey: So yeah, this book is about a very.
[00:36:33] Kelsey: Strong and passionate Cuban artist whose life doesn't go the way that she plans or wants. She's very much attached to like her art being seen and being out in the world, and her getting the recognition and accolades that she thinks she deserves. And it also weaves in problematic relationships and trauma.
[00:36:58] Kelsey: And it also [00:37:00] highlights Cuban life and Cuban culture. And to me it was a beautiful telling of all of those things. And even though you know at face value, you might like not enjoy Anita's character, I think , her being so real. Was what , was so interesting to me. And the reason why I was like, where do I start is because Amanda and I, so we both read this and we went to and attended a book club that was highlighting this book, and we talked about it like maybe a month ago or so.
[00:37:36] Kelsey: Or even further, I can't remember. I felt like, , a singleton in the group of like, who actually enjoyed the book. And I do wanna mention everybody was ready to really harp on this author. And it might be totally legit.
[00:37:50] Kelsey: I just , don't feel like I'm ready to. Get on that bandwagon to tear down this author for her choices. Because I [00:38:00] feel like I fully don't understand why someone would make the choices that she did. And I also want to give her the benefit of the doubt as not knowing who she is so anyway, I just felt really conflicted about harping on this author.
[00:38:14] Kelsey: And the reason why they were is because they felt they took who was the actual artist? Who, I have to look up her name. I don't remember. Anna. Anna something. Yes, she was, this is based on a real person. And in the forward, or like in the, what is that called?
[00:38:28] Kelsey: That little piece that like. Dedication. The authors know. Oh yeah. The dedication. Yeah, the dedication to this. She mentions Anna's like first name. Yeah. But for some reason she wasn't able to , highlight her fully or it was a choice of hers to not do that. And so that's why people were a bit upset when we went to that book club.
[00:38:50] Kelsey: Was that it's historical fiction. Yeah. And based on this woman's life, but there was no real acknowledgement that this is Yeah. Of the actual woman. [00:39:00] Yeah. Of the actual woman. Yeah. Her name is Anna Minda. Minda. Yeah.
[00:39:05] Kelsey: And so in the dedication, she says to Anna or something like that.
[00:39:09] Kelsey: And she does acknowledge it, but I guess people wanted like. maybe you could explain that Amanda a bit better. Yeah.
[00:39:17] Amanda: So basically the conflict in the book club discussion that we attended, and I, I think there's valid points on both sides and Kelsey is right. In that for the most part, she was in the minority and in defending Gonzales's choices.
[00:39:31] Amanda: I, I did not realize when I read this book that it was based on a real person and very closely tied to her actual life. Yes. There's not a whole lot that Gonzales changed in the telling of this story. As someone who reads a lot of historical fiction, as somebody who sees historical fiction as a way to educate, to celebrate and highlight often overlooked voices and experiences in history, especially women of color, I could not understand [00:40:00] why she would take this woman's life, tell it almost to the, to every single detail.
[00:40:05] Amanda: And then not. Actually acknowledge her in the book beyond just mentioning a random first name and also not including an author's note afterward that would say something like, this story is based on this woman's life. This is what she went through. These are her experiences. You should check out her work.
[00:40:20] Amanda: Like that to me is honoring her and to take someone's story and tell it. And it sounds like from what we heard in the book club, she also did not get permission from the family. Yeah. To tell the story, which is why she wasn't able to say Anna Mind's name specifically in the book and she wasn't allowed to do an author's note.
[00:40:38] Amanda: I see. Yeah. So I personally do have issues with that and I'm totally fine. Being the opposite side of Kelsey on this is like totally what this is all about. Typical. So like for me, like I actually have a problem with that because. The whole point of Ana mind, the story is that, her husband killed her.
[00:40:54] Amanda: Was never brought to justice. Yeah. Her legacy basically [00:41:00] vanished. And a lot of folks, myself included, have never even heard of this woman. And so to basically further erase her from history will also telling her story seems like a huge injustice and a huge disservice. So it's either like, don't tell the story if you are not able to tell it in the way that it should be told.
[00:41:16] Amanda: And you don't have the family's permission, Uhhuh or. Get their permission and tell the story, tell the full story.
[00:41:23] Amanda: Otherwise just make up a purely fictional story that ties into the same themes. Yeah. That also celebrates artistry and women of color in the Cuban tradition.
[00:41:31] Amanda: It made me really uncomfortable. Like I I'm fully like on the other side, and I actually did end up doing some research about Anna Mindi, the Object. Yeah. I'm so curious. I looked up some of her photography, which is just absolutely stunning.
[00:41:45] Amanda: And so that's, yeah. That's where I fall on this one.
[00:41:49] Amanda: Yeah. And to that point, it did make it a book that I haven't stopped thinking about because Yes. Like I have these strong feelings now.
[00:41:55] Kelsey: Yeah. I like still am pondering that and I just I don't know, I just have a [00:42:00] really, I struggle a lot just getting on the bandwagon of canceling people and so
[00:42:05] Kelsey: I have to do my own research and I have to develop my own opinion Yeah. Rather than people just telling me. Sure. And it was super off-putting the way that people were talking about it in that group. And so I still think about it because it's such a good story.
[00:42:21] Kelsey: And I felt like the inclusion of Anita's spirit being in there, like that was probably my favorite portion of the story. Yeah. But anyway, , I feel like also it does highlight Anna, in that we are all looking her up and like looking at her work and like doing all of that.
[00:42:40] Kelsey: That I don't know that people are
[00:42:42] Amanda: though. Like I feel honestly the people, everyone
[00:42:44] Kelsey: in that group was
[00:42:45] Amanda: but the only reason they did was because one of the people who were familiar with her sent out that email that was like, Hey, this book is based on this artist's life. Nobody else knew that. And that's why they were like, they all loved the book, right?
[00:42:57] Amanda: And then they're like, oh, then we read this email, realize what it was [00:43:00] based on, and now we have a different opinion. Oh no. So it's like. I just think it's icky. If I as a woman of color did something with my life, died, whatever.
[00:43:08] Kelsey: Yeah. And
[00:43:08] Amanda (2): someone told my story without my permission, did not give me any credit, any sort of acknowledgement.
[00:43:14] Amanda (2): Like I would be beyond the grave pissed, and maybe she is. Yeah. And maybe she's, I think too it's, and it's tricky, right? Because the author herself is a woman of color. And I think because of that, people can be hesitant to pass judgment or to say things to basically give her a slap on the wrist and be like, Hey, that was, you know, you can still make mistakes Uhhuh just because you're a woman of color doesn't give you a pass.
[00:43:33] Amanda (2): And so I can Oh, totally understand. Like hesitancy to do that. In my opinion, I don't think that folks in the group I wouldn't say they were canceling her. I think they were just saying this was not an okay thing to do. Yeah. And I think it's okay to say that. Sure. And it's also okay to disagree and be like I think it was fine, but I don't think they were canceling her.
[00:43:49] Amanda (2): I think they were just like, this was not. Their opinion a a thoughtful, considerate choice to take.
[00:43:58] Amanda: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:58] Amanda (2): This and this really [00:44:00] tragic too.
[00:44:00] Amanda: Like
[00:44:00] Amanda (2): There's a lot like her family, I can only imagine, right? What her loss and her murder, like how it impacted them. And to have that taken, that really personal story taken and just yeah.
[00:44:11] Amanda (2): Blown up in this because
[00:44:13] Amanda: this is,
[00:44:13] Amanda (2): this is a Reese Witherspoon book club choice book. So it's, yeah. Yeah. So it's gotten a lot of traction. And I'm sure Reese was like, oh my God, we're like celebrating a female author of color. This is great. Yeah. , This is great for our brand too, so I just, yeah. I
[00:44:26] Kelsey: have
[00:44:26] Amanda: a lot of feelings. So there are
[00:44:28] Kelsey: many feelings to be had.
[00:44:30] Amanda: I agree. Yeah.
[00:44:31] Kelsey: But because of that, it's definitely a book. You will not stop it. Yeah. I really can't stop thinking about it. It's oh my gosh. And I also wanted to just highlight our experience there and just at the club and yeah, it was interesting.
[00:44:43] Amanda: It was d different it's, it was interesting experience too, because both Kelsey and I are in our own book clubs that are much smaller. Yes. This was a pretty big group. Like 15 people or so. Yeah. It might've been
[00:44:52] Kelsey: more than that. It might've
[00:44:53] Amanda: been more. And we also know those people.
[00:44:56] Amanda: There's smaller, intimate groups. Yes. You likely have to some [00:45:00] degree similarities and perspectives or ideas. Oh my goodness. And then also obviously Kelsey and I spend a lot of time talking to each other. Yes.
[00:45:06] Kelsey: And argue a lot about various arguing a lot. Yeah.
[00:45:09] Amanda: So it was just such a different dynamic, I think, for both of us to be in that space and talking about books in that setting.
[00:45:16] Kelsey: Yeah.
[00:45:17] Amanda: And I know there were multiple times when I wanted to jump in and couldn't because there were so many people who also needed to speak, so it's not like you can respond to every little thing. And some people didn't know how to share the airspace as well as others. Yeah. I felt my teacher self or interrupting people.
[00:45:33] Amanda: Yes. Yes. I felt my teacher self wanting to be like, okay guys, remember to share the airspace. Yeah.
[00:45:40] Kelsey: I just yeah, it was a good experience overall and glad we went. And hey, if any of you are out there listening, because we mentioned our podcast at, we Did. We did at the meeting. So that was fun anyway.
[00:45:55] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Great. Job calling that book out. Glad that you included it. For [00:46:00] sure. And yeah, it's just another good plug, a good reminder for what we do on this podcast. Like we embrace that tension between different perspectives and Yeah. Different ideas and positionality.
[00:46:10] Amanda: It's okay. It's okay to disagree. It is okay that Kelsey and I do not feel the same about this book. And I actually, I like that. I don't know, it gives me more to think about and it's healthy. That's the other thing is I think
[00:46:24] Kelsey: healthy dialogue is so important. Yep. And it's so funny you mentioned your book club.
[00:46:28] Kelsey: Like basically, , you have similar like beliefs and ideas or well of thoughts maybe ish. Yeah. But I was like in my book club, like we are all educators, which is the thing that we all have and common. Yeah. But we have a wide range of opinions about Oh yeah. Study books.
[00:46:45] Kelsey: It's so great and I love it. And we don't feel any which way about it. We're just like, yeah, this is my opinion. Oh, that's your opinion. Okay, cool. Oh, I see. And it like opens your mind to it does the possibilities. Yeah. And I just, I really appreciate that again, about our podcast and just about [00:47:00] how we're able to do that.
[00:47:02] Amanda: Yeah. Diversity of thought and diversity of opinion is so important. Yes. For growth and change and Yeah. Connection. So anyhow, don't wanna get too plug in that too. Down a rabbit hole, but Yes. Okay, so my last one again, a huge, I dunno, 180, is that the right word? We're like moving to wildly different genre.
[00:47:22] Amanda: Oh yes. It. So I do not read a lot of kind of nonfiction, self-help style books generally. That's not a preferred genre. I think when I'm reading, I really want escapism or used to entertainment or, yeah. I generally only find myself reading these books if it's required for work or, something that our book club picked.
[00:47:43] Amanda: But yeah. As some of you might know, if you've listened to this podcast for a longer period of time or have listened to like our intra episode, I grew up in a super religious, fundamentalist Christian family. And then as an adult took the time to deconstruct my faith and am no [00:48:00] longer a religious person in that way.
[00:48:01] Amanda: I still consider myself really spiritual, but one of the books that really helped me in my deconstruction period and kind of processing what it means to. Have faith or be spiritual or just like, what, what the heck is going on? Like, why are we here? What does it mean to be human? All these big questions that we often ponder.
[00:48:20] Amanda: This book is Everything Is Spiritual by Rob Bell. He's a pretty well known kind of thinker, writer, speaker in this realm and was recommended this book by a friend. And it's essentially this extended meditation or like reflection on both the nature of reality and like what.
[00:48:43] Amanda: Part, we play in it as human beings, like essentially what is life all about? Why am I here? What does it mean to be human? How am I connected to the universe? All of these things. And so it's partly a memoir. So he does incorporate, obviously, his own personal experiences and [00:49:00] anecdotes throughout it.
[00:49:01] Amanda: But this style of the book is like poetic prose. It's written in these stanzas almost. So it's very digestible. And because he's pondering these big things and inviting us to ponder them along with him, it's great to have those stanzas chunked that way because it gives you these very natural pauses in the text to reflect on what you just read.
[00:49:23] Kelsey: And
[00:49:24] Amanda: I was actually flipping through the book this morning as I was prepping for this episode and looking at some of my old annotations and like things I underlined and the, little comments I jotted down in the margins. And so I wanted to share two of the quotes from the book that I had engaged with when I first read it.
[00:49:41] Amanda: So the first one is quote God. Another term for that is ultimate reality is like a community of love, God, spirit, word, all connected, relating to each other, a flow running in and through everything. And again, as someone who grew up with a very kind of rigid [00:50:00] idea of what God is and like what religion is and how to be a good person, I think opening up my thinking around what spirituality can look like and what it means to , believe in the divine or my connection to the divine.
[00:50:14] Amanda: It just, yeah, it really was a moment where I was like, oh, I. I, as an adult have the ability to construct and reconstruct continually right. My faith, my spirituality, my understanding of these things. And that freedom brought me a lot of peace and joy. And I think in my particular brand of Christianity that I grew up with, it was a lot of fear.
[00:50:37] Amanda: Yeah. And a lot of like punishment and judgment and stay in line or God's gonna get pissed off. Yeah. Rule following. And just like seeking to please others and please God. And the other, another quote that I found that I included, which is a lot shorter, which I just thought was it's really simple.
[00:50:51] Amanda: There's nothing profound about this statement, but I think I just needed to hear it, especially at that point when I was reading the book, which is quote, we are all endlessly [00:51:00] figuring it out. And just this I don't know, this grace that like, you don't have to have all the answers. You don't need to be a perfect person.
[00:51:05] Amanda: What even does that mean? And I think just gave me a lot of. Leeway to just be human right. And realize that no one truly has all the answers. And if someone claims to have all the answers, they are wrong, run fast in the opposite direction. So yeah, it was just a really transformative experience for me.
[00:51:24] Amanda: I think about this book a lot. I think about the book the Untethered Soul a lot as well, which I read around the same time, which is also just really beautiful in reframing how you think about yourself. What the soul is, how we define ourselves in relationship to each other. And it just, it's just beautiful meditation, reflection, invitation to think about these things and find ways that you might incorporate them into your life and into your practice.
[00:51:48] Amanda: So yeah, that's my fourth one. Again, very different from all the other books. So different. Yes. And not something we often talk about on this podcast, which is why I wanted to like, take this opportunity to share it and also just like share [00:52:00] with listeners a bit more about me as a person.
[00:52:02] Kelsey: Yeah. Did you ever, or have you heard of Conversations with God?
[00:52:05] Amanda: Yeah, we talked about this in a previous episode. Okay. Yeah. Okay. When, yeah, you mentioned it, of
[00:52:09] Kelsey: course. I would never remember. That's one that's stuck with me a bit. But yeah. When would you say you started questioning like your,
[00:52:19] Amanda: oh, mother and
[00:52:20] Kelsey: father's like lead on religion essentially.
[00:52:23] Kelsey: It was
[00:52:23] Amanda: definitely a very like, gradual process that then ultimately ramped up. So I would say it probably started post college I feel like was when I was spending extended periods of time outside of the country because I was no longer living in my parents' house.
[00:52:39] Amanda: I wasn't in that world right anymore. I wasn't going to church regularly during those times. So I had this break in this space that it was like, it was away from , this constant messaging I'd been receiving. Yeah. You explore like, oh, what else might there be out there? And I do distinctly remember this is happening in college too.
[00:52:55] Amanda: I was interacting with people who weren't Christian but who was like, [00:53:00] you guys are like really amazing good people. Ah, yeah. And you live your lives in these really beautiful ways that are full of like love and care and how is that possible if you don't have Jesus helping, so I was like, maybe like we don't have a monopoly right on.
[00:53:16] Amanda: Kindness and love and respect. And these were often people too who were in, in the Christian faith who I was told like, these are bad people. 'Cause maybe they were in the LGBTQ plus community and maybe they, use drugs, maybe whatever, like whatever I was told like, these are bad people.
[00:53:32] Amanda: Yeah. And I was like, but wait, like this isn't gelling. And so that just proceeded, over the course of my twenties and then ramped up at the end of my twenties into my early thirties. Wow. Yeah. So it was a process, it was for sure a process. Yeah.
[00:53:42] Kelsey: Oh, I bet, yeah. Growing up that way. Yeah.
[00:53:45] Kelsey: Yeah. Cool. Thank you. You're so welcome. Um, My final book I cannot stop thinking about I read it maybe a week ago, finished it or maybe a week ago, and it's just made such an impression on me. [00:54:00] I can't stop thinking about it. And I was so emotional throughout the entire book.
[00:54:05] Kelsey: And remind me, Amanda, you haven't read this one yet, right? I
[00:54:08] Amanda: haven't. It is on
[00:54:09] Kelsey: my tr You must read it soon. Okay. I
[00:54:13] Amanda: think I already can talk about it. Already. Put my, it's on my Libby now. I'm waiting for it to come in. Fantastic.
[00:54:16] Kelsey: Yeah. So this book is All My Rage by Saba Tahir. And you recommended this.
[00:54:22] Kelsey: I think it's episode 19. 'cause I just recently did a video about this and you recommended it for, I think it was Arab American History. Muslim American History Month. Oh, okay. And when you talked about it for some reason I thought this was a.
[00:54:40] Kelsey: Memoir?
[00:54:41] Amanda: There are parts of the story that are connected to her upbringing, but it's not a memoir.
[00:54:46] Kelsey: Got it.
[00:54:46] Amanda: Yeah.
[00:54:47] Kelsey: Okay. So I think I had the misunderstanding about it going in. And then realized, yeah, oh, okay. This is not a memoir, because it was like, it was a bit too dramatic and there were other aspects of it that make it clear [00:55:00] that it's not like exactly what happened.
[00:55:02] Kelsey: Okay. But yeah, it just, it's about two teenagers, Pakistani teenagers. Both came to the United States in their own way whether or not that was like the generation before or them themselves. And they end up being like best friends, like growing up because they click because they're both Pakistani and speak the same language and have similar families.
[00:55:27] Kelsey: And, or families that were in the same community. And it's really all about their struggles, trauma, like finding themselves and their love for one another. And to think that this could potentially happen to any young person was just really heart wrenching. And what a window it was for me, for someone who is not an immigrant.
[00:55:53] Kelsey: And obviously not from Pakistan. And thinking about the various situations or [00:56:00] historical moments that have impacted that group of people and or that community and, anyway, I just, I can't say enough praise about it. And it does jump timelines where it goes back in time and then comes back to the present and they find themselves in some deep trouble.
[00:56:21] Kelsey: And again, find their themselves out of it and how they find themselves out of it and figure out how to like, build community and like love. It's just a beautiful story. And these characters are like some of my favorites that I've ever Yeah. That I've ever read. Yeah.
[00:56:40] Amanda: You've been talking about this book since you started.
[00:56:43] Amanda: It just updates like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. This is amazing. So yeah I'm really excited and I'm glad you read it because it's definitely one of those books that I. Recommended for the episode and then it fell off my radar because I didn't immediately put it on my TBR.
[00:56:55] Amanda: Yeah. And so I'm glad you went back and remembered and read it. [00:57:00] Yeah. Because I'm super excited to engage with it and I remember when I was recommending it, I was like, oh my gosh, it sounds fabulous. And like you said for sure, a window,
[00:57:09] Amanda: For me as well. So it is on my Libby, I don't think it's a huge weight.
[00:57:14] Amanda: I feel like I'm gonna, yeah. Let's see.
[00:57:16] Kelsey: I don't think I had to wait very long for it myself.
[00:57:19] Amanda: It's, I am third in line. Oh, nice. So I feel like I should get it pretty quickly
[00:57:24] Kelsey: so you'll join in the torment and the emotional distress with me. It's
[00:57:27] Amanda: not, I don't think it's, I know it's ya. Yes. But I don't think it's a super long book.
[00:57:32] Kelsey: No, it's not. Yeah. And the other thing that I will say about why it was so compelling is the writing is good.
[00:57:39] Amanda: Yay. Okay. I'm okay. She's such an amazing
[00:57:41] Kelsey: writer. I just. You the way that she describes the experiences. Yeah. Of these teenagers. I'm like ready to cry right now. I just like, oh no.
[00:57:50] Kelsey: It was so impactful, Amanda. Yeah, God So get ready. Okay, I'll have my tissues. Oh my God. I cried constantly [00:58:00] throughout especially like the second half. Okay. It was literally constant and I was like, going to work and I was like, f*ck I shouldn't have read this book this way to work.
[00:58:07] Kelsey: And I was like, tearing up the whole time. Oh man. It was so powerful. Ugh. Okay. Okay. It makes
[00:58:13] Amanda: sense. It is a national book award winner, so that it that makes sense. It definitely tracks So good. I'm glad for the heads up though, I will have my box of tissues on my table next to me Yeah. When I read it, which should be ugh, after Quicksilver.
[00:58:25] Amanda: You can do it. You can do it. Yeah. I'm excited. Okay, so I'll quickly recap my four for folks. And then you can do your four and we'll wrap things up. So my four books that I can't stop thinking about are Blood Over BrightHaven by Emma Wong in The Garden of Beast by Eric Larson. All the centers bleed by S.A. Cosby and everything is spiritual by Rob Bell.
[00:58:48] Kelsey: My four books include Sanctuary by Paola Mendoza, heat of the Ever Flame by Pen Cole. Anita de Monte Lasts Last by Gonzalez, [00:59:00] and all My Rage by Salva Tahir. And yeah, I just will leave it at that.
[00:59:07] Amanda: Yes. And of course, if you've read these books and love them and or hated them, let us know in our socials.
[00:59:13] Amanda: Oh yeah, we wanna know let us know in the comments on this episode. We definitely want to engage you in the conversation around it. And if you haven't checked out these books, I think honestly any of these eight would be a great fit based on your reading taste and preferences. There's truly something here for everyone, something there's so many genres that we just went through.
[00:59:29] Amanda: And so as a quick reminder, we are on Instagram at Lit Vibes Only podcast, and both TikTok and YouTube at Lit Vibes only. So come join the conversation. Come say, Hey, let us know your books that you can't stop thinking about because Kelsey and I are always on the hunt. For good book recommendations for books that we can cover on the podcast.
[00:59:53] Amanda: Yeah. If you are not on socials, then you can email us at lit vibes only podcast@gmail.com. I know [01:00:00] we don't always say that every episode, but we wanna give a reminder every couple of episodes we do have an email address. Feel free to utilize it and please do. As always, if you've gotten to this point in this episode and you have not rated and reviewed us better now than never.
[01:00:15] Amanda: So take a moment to do that. We are so appreciative that you took time out of your busy day to come hang out with us and chat about books I can and we'll see you next Monday. Bye bye.