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Ep. 59: Lit It Or Quit It: Atmosphere

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Join Kelsey and Amanda as they dive deep into Taylor Jenkins Reid's 'Atmosphere', exploring its themes of love, personal growth, and the challenges faced by women astronauts in the 1980s. With emotional highs, heartbreaks, and insightful commentary, this episode unpacks the complex relationships and historical backdrop of the novel in a heartfelt discussion.

00:00 Welcome to Lit Vibes!

00:33 Follow Us on Social Media

01:58 Upcoming Book Event

05:08 Current Reads

10:13 Book Summary of ‘Atmosphere’

19:59 Book Discussion

51:24 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

54:53 LITerally the Best or LITerally the Worst 

01:12:48 Social Media and Closing Remarks


Follow us on TikTok & Youtube @litvibesonlypodcast and on Instagram @litvibesonly_podcast. You can also email us at litvibesonlypodcast@gmail.com We'd love to hear from you!

See you on Mondays!

Kelsey:

Welcome to Lit Fives, only where we lit the shit outta books we love and hate. I'm Kelsey, the unhinged, diehard, romantic and fantasy reader. And I'm Amanda, the insightful, thrill seeker and historical fiction nerd. Welcome once again, hey, to our second lit It or Quit It episode for October. We are officially in spooky season. Yay. So exciting. Fully in the fall. Before we get into episode yay, today, we wanna remind you to find us on our socials. We're on Instagram at Lit vibe only underscore podcast and TikTok and YouTube at Lit Vibes only podcast. So be sure to like, follow, comment, subscribe, all the good things if you are not already. And as always, if you have not yet. Rated and reviewed our podcast, we kindly request that you take a moment to do that. You could even do it right now. Just pause, go do it, pause, pause this podcast and tell yourself that you can't turn it back on until you've rated and reviewed this, this podcast. If you're on, which takes two seconds, it takes two seconds. It really does, especially if you're just rating us. And that does so much. So if you're like, I don't have time, just like literally 0.02 seconds, hit that little five star rating. And if you have a little bit of extra time, you can leave us a comment on one of our Spotify episodes or you can write a review on Apple for the entire podcast. Either one is deeply, deeply appreciated. We thank you guys so much for your support and we're so glad that you're here today hanging out with us. We have a fun episode for you today. We do. I am so thrilled about this book that I force Kelsey to read because I love Taylor Jenkins read and I want her to love Taylor Jenkins read too. So we'll see. We shall see. I'm so curious. But Kelsey and I have a fun little book event coming up in October. Yeah. I guess not in October, I guess. I mean, yes. In October, but I'm, I'm like getting all, it's September when we're recording this. Yes, yes. And once you hear this, it will be after the book event. So I'm like trying to like, that is true place. So this will have dropped after we've already gone to the book event, but when we're recording this, it is still September and we have not yet gone. So Yes, it is like a week and a half before we go. Yes. But both Amanda and I read Anita de Monte laughs last. Mm-hmm. And it's been on my TBR for a while and I was randomly scrolling on Elliot Bay bookstores. Website and they have a monthly book club. And it happened to be Anita Dete this October. Mm-hmm. And I happened to see it like a month ago. And so it just kind of worked out perfectly. And I said, Hey Amanda do you want to read this? Like we could go to this book club. Yeah. It's like our first time.'cause we both have our own book clubs that we're a part of separately, so this is like the first time we've done a book club together. Yeah. I also, I'm just curious about how this is gonna work, because if it's a book group that's open to the public, like how large is it? How do people contribute? Are we like in separate smaller groups? Like

Amanda:

how is it no idea? Is it structured? I'm so

Kelsey:

curious. But we both love Elliot Bay, so mm-hmm. It'll be great to go and support. I feel like book clubs can be very unstructured. Do you have your Yeah, that's, that's what I'm saying. If it's a bunch of people, how do you have 50 people in an unstructured book club? Like how does that work? Yeah, I dunno. So how do you structure your book club? Well we always spend like the first, I don't know, 45 minutes just catching up.'cause we're all friends and we're all scattered all over the country. So we just have like our little life updates and then, I don't know, it's just an open discussion like folks will mm-hmm. Talk about what they liked, what they didn't like, and then we just kind of riff off of each other. But it works right. Because there's six to eight of us versus, you know, a massive crowd of people. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know how that works. And I personally get really shy talking in a large group of strangers. Oh. So I would be more hesitant to contribute in a large group. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel that too. I'm curious though, how die hard. The book club is, you know what I mean? Yeah. If there's big representation or sometimes those things can be total flops. Really. Yeah. You know? Yeah, exactly. There's only a few people, so I mean, I didn't know it was a thing until you mentioned it. Like I didn't even know, like they did book groups. I thought they just had like authors come in and like those kinds of events. Oh yeah. And do readings and things. So I was like, oh. We'll see what it's like and we'll report back and let you know. We know on our next, well, our third episode month, it'll, it won't be until, until November. You'll hear from us. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.'cause we won't have gone, I'm getting so confused at what we're recording right now. We've mentioned this before on our podcast, like orienting ourselves in time when we're recording these is really, is hard confusing sometimes. But we are here and we're excited and we're gonna get to the book in just a second. But Kelsey, what are you currently reading? Oh my gosh, I have to think for a second. Oh I'm, I don't know if I was still reading this book in the last recording. Okay. Did I mention an Ali Hazelwood book? Do you remember? I mean, you often mention Ally Hazelwood, so it's quite possible. It's called the Summer Prob Problematic, problematic Summer Romance. Romance, yes. You did mention this. Did I mention that? Yeah. Oh, I'm still reading that one. Okay. Well'cause you mentioned you were reading it I think at night before bed, and so it was like slow going. Yes. Okay. Okay. Oh, super slow going. Yeah. Okay. So I have a very specific place that I am reading that book. Oh, okay. That's the only place I am reading it. Is it, how does it compare to her other books you've read so far? It's pretty good. Like I, I'm enjoying it, but I'm not like a die hard for it, you know? Okay.'cause if I was like a fourth wing book, right? Yeah. Like fourth Wing, I gobbled up. Yeah. But this book, I'm not gobbling up. Okay. I'm enjoying it. But not immersed in it. You're just like meandering through the story. Yes. Okay. That's fair. I am actually reading a Kelsey book. This is gonna be a featured in one of our, my God, upcoming I guess November. Yeah. November. Lit it or quit. Its, I've got it right here for folks who are I'm so excited. Amanda on.

Amanda:

I

Amanda (2):

know You're Not She YouTube, it is a Forbidden Alchemy by Stacey McEwen. McEwen, I think that's how you say her name. Yeah. I am a little under halfway through. I started it last night. Oh wow. I'm not gonna say much because I don't want Kelsey to know what I need. I saw your post and. Well, that was before I started reading it though. Oh, it was before you started reading it. Hadn't started it. Okay, so if, so I have no idea what you thinking. If you follow us on TikTok, I had posted that. I was reading it this weekend because my book Bestie was forcing me. But that was before I started reading it, so no spoilers. If you wanna know my final thoughts on this book, you'll just have to tune in next month. But yeah, that's what I've been, I thought it was different than other. Fantasy books that we've read, so we'll see. Oh, okay. We'll see what you think. Like diff like different in what way? Well, it starts out the very beginning, and this isn't a spoiler. Yeah. It starts out they are children. Yeah. And then it kind of reunite later. It kind of grows their entire story from there. Yeah, that's true. I did have a different start. So yeah. My lips are sealed otherwise. And we'll, we'll talk about that. You can't to wait to next month, whether or not you hate it or love it, I don't care. I still love it, but I Yeah, I will, I will let you know. But yeah, we're gonna talk about atmosphere by Yes. Teyl Jenkins three today. I, gosh, why did I pick this book for Kelsey? Well, one. Mm-hmm. I, I love TJR. She, I've read God, four of her books. I'm about to start Malibu Rising after I, I finish a forbid alchemy. I'm super excited. She writes almost exclusively, historical fiction, which I'm a huge fan of. Mm-hmm. They're all female focused stories. They focus on a variety of settings and life experiences. So in this particular novel, it's focused on female astronauts. In the eighties, Daisy Jones in the six takes place in like the sixties in the music industry. The seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo take takes place in the movie industry. And I think she also does a great job of doing her research. Mm-hmm. So yeah, love her stuff. And I wanted to expose Kelsey to this author and hopefully finally get her to enjoy some historical fiction. I know I've gotten a couple of lit its from her. For Kindred? Yes. I think that's the only historical fiction. Historical fiction so far. Well wait, how many historical fiction. It's not true because you, I think you liked the Frozen River, right? Or was it a soft lit it? I don't remember. It might've been a, it definitely wasn't a, yeah, it might have been a soft lit it. Yeah. But horse was acquitted. Horses acquitted. What was the other fiction? What else I had you read a historical fiction. Fiction? It's hard to remember. I feel like after a year, so we have such a big repertoire now. I can't remember. Yeah. But histor, historically Kelsey has not liked my historical fiction picks. Yes. And I had a sneaking suspicion that she would like this one, especially'cause it's not, you know, way, way in the past. It's in the eighties. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm., It really is a love story that's at the core of this in a lot of ways. Mm-hmm. So I thought that might be something she might be interested to read about. So, yeah. So my question for you, Kelsey Yes. Is and I feel like I already know, but was this book a lit it or quit it for you? I mean, did you see my book. Rating for it? No, I, I did not do rating. I happened to put it on yesterday. No, I didn't see it. And I finished this Friday evening. Okay. Because I always finish like right before, because it just feels like the best timing. But it's fresh. It's fresh in your mind if you do that way. Yeah. It was absolute lit. It y ugh. Finally I knew it. Hands or butts. I knew it. I found it. I was pretty confident with this choice for a lot of reasons. But yeah, we'll get into that. Excellent. All right. Well then you've got a summary for us. You actually got five stars outta me. It was a five star read. Okay. Yeah. I did not see your rating. Oh my God. I need to just take a moment and just breathe it in Revel in this, in this glorious moment. Wow. Are you have you ever given me five stars? I don't think so. For any of our books. Don't think. I don't think so. I don't think so. That's insane. Yeah. Okay. I have given you five stars for your books, but this is my first one. What five stars have you given? I definitely did a five star for what is it? A quart of Wings and Ruins. Okay. Aor, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure I gave that five stars. I might've given Mima five stars too. Oh. Or maybe it was four. I don't know. But I definitely have given at least one of the Ature books. Five stars. Yeah. I would guess it was AKA. War. And that's one I feel like, I think I gave Trail of Lightning. Five stars too, maybe. Yeah. I forgot about that book. I know it was back in the, back in the day. But yeah. Okay. I'm gonna, Hey, stop talking. So you can give us a summary. So I have our summary and what I tend to do with summaries is I put it into Chay, bt, and I'm like, give me a summary. And this time it could not give me a very detailed summary. So I had to fill in some, fill in some blanks here. Okay. So it's a mixture. Great. Of the Internet's summaries on my own. Okay. So, Joan Goodwin is an astronomy professor at Rice University in Houston in the late 1970s. She has a sister Barbara, who is a single mother raising her daughter Francis. Joan has been a steady figure in Francis's life almost like a second parent. And Barbara increasingly leans on Joan for childcare and support, causing resentment to build, and Barbara feels trapped while Joan feels both obligated and stifled. NASA announces that it will begin accepting women into the astronaut court, and Joan applies first. Gets denied and then is accepted the second time they run applications. Into the new class of astronaut candidates. Joan must balance training with her continued family obligations which leads to growing conflict with Barbara Francis, however, becomes even closer to Joan, and so then we move into astronaut training where Joan joins, you know, a diverse cohort of trainees and that includes her like main folks that she builds relationships with Vanessa Ford A charismatic engineer and pilot Lydia Danes, intensely competitive and ambitious. Often people don't like her because of her ambition and her competitiveness with others. This also includes Griff, Hank, and Donna, who kind of round out their, their friend group. Training involves survival drills zero gravity flights, simulations of shuttle launches, and reentries and constant technical exams. Joan struggles at times with the physical demands, but proves herself with her scientific expertise and calm under pressure. That's a big attribute that she holds is her calmness under pressure. She begins to bond deeply with Vanessa during the long stressful training. And then Jonah Vanessa's friendship blossoms into a romantic relationship But because of the time period and the culture,'cause this is the eighties at nasa, they must keep their relationship hidden from colleagues and supervisors. And I think another caveat to understand is that because they were astronauts in this time their, their life was semi-public to folks. And their relationship becomes a private sanctuary amid the intensity of training and the scrutiny of being among the first women astronauts. And then some rising tensions with Barbara and her family. So Barbara starts to date a man named Daniel and she leaves Francis with Joan one weekend very abruptly. Joan takes care of Francis that weekend, but Barbara doesn't return when she says she will. So Joan has to like remove some of her things that she had planned thinking that Barbara was gonna be back with Francis, but she has to go pick her up from school and then hangs out with Francis the entire evening. Until Barbara returns and Barbara is becoming pretty attached to this guy, Daniel. And Francis grows even more attached to Joan. You know, she's a stable and inspiring figure in her life and Jordan, Joan is torn between her sense of duty to take care of her family and her ambitions at nasa. So eventually after a few years of training the astronauts are placed on missions and Joan is the first in her group of folks to be assigned a mission. Lydia is upset with her, but everyone else is not surprised because Joan is very skilled and intelligent. During her mission, she is sick almost the whole time and decides she doesn't wanna go to space again and requests to become Capcom which is the capsule communicator in mission control instead. It's a vital link between Houston and the shuttle crew. And so then after Joan is assigned, Vanessa, Lydia, Hank, and Griff are all assigned to the same mission. And I think their mission was to place a satellite, and then during that, oh my God. What is it called? Their flight. Their, their mission. Mission, mm-hmm. To space. December 29th, 1984. Yeah. They deploy a satellite and disaster strikes. The navigator and explosion causes rapid depressurization in the cabin, and most of the crew loses consciousness immediately. Hank dies quickly after the incident. Griff is badly injured from the explosion. And Lydia Daines manages to seal the leak, but collapses from injury and exhaustion Vanessa remains the only fully conscious astronaut on board and from Mission Control, Joan becomes the voice like guiding Vanessa through what has just happened. And this is happening throughout the book, you're getting things uncovered throughout the book as you learn about the history of the group. And Jonah and Vanessa. Joan relays technical instructions, keeping Vanessa calm and works under the intense scrutiny of superiors who insist, she follows strict protocol. And even though Joan knows Vanessa personally and intimately, she must act with professional detachment to maintain her role. The tension is heightened as Jonah forced to watch helplessly from the ground while the woman she loves risks her life. And finally Vanessa gets official orders to prioritize saving the shuttle and her herself. But Lydia is still alive. Griff has died while she was trying to fix this mechanical issue on board. And so eventually Vanessa. Decides to defy those instructions. And she in order to try and save Lydia along with herself, and it's a huge risk because it's unknown how much pressure the doors can withstand because there's a malfunction going on. Thinking about reentry Vanessa again manages to guide both Lydia and Vanessa safely back to Earth. And that's like the very, very end of the book. And then I'm going back to this happened right before Vanessa's mission during Thanksgiving, but some family, pieces that kind of fill out the, the story is that Joan comes back from her space mission, which was right before Vanessa and the other crews mission. And Barbara decides to put France into boarding school, and Barbara had decided to essentially abandon her daughter for her new husband who never wanted children. And so, there was this tension going on for Joan by allowing her sister to do this to Francis. But she had thought that she was gonna see her on Thanksgiving after Joan returns But she finds out that Barbara left Francis at school for Thanksgiving so she could travel Europe. And Joan confronts her sister and tells her she's taking Francis and Barbara gives her permission to raise Francis. So really in the end, Vanessa, Francis and Joan build a genuine sense of belonging and stability while carrying the scars of what they endured in space and at home. Dun dun at the end. Yeah. Great. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, the book does have a dual timeline, so it starts off with as Kelsey said, them in space on this mission, something goes wrong and then you're constantly flashing back to the past. Yeah. And learning more about each of these characters, their relationships with each other and what got them to this point. Mm-hmm. And yeah, Barbara does end up marrying Daniel. Mm-hmm. Her big draw for marrying Daniel is that he's just very wealthy. Man, very well established. She's been struggling as a single mother for many years. She also is, as you've seen in the novel, quite self-centered mm-hmm. And tends to prioritize herself before her daughter, even before her sister, who she fully takes advantage of Joan's willingness to help raise France. Mm-hmm. And so ultimately, yeah, she basically disowns her daughter and gives Joan Guardianship of Francis. And so yeah, we see her and Vanessa and Francis kind of form this family unit by the end of the book. Yep. But yeah, lots of good stuff in this book. Lots of heartbreaking moments, lots of really great relationships, lots of cool stuff about space. So, yeah. So Kelsey, what were some of your favorite things from this book? Let's start there. I mean, really everything

Amanda:

really,

Kelsey 2.0:

I suppose. So if it's a five star book, really great. Yeah, it was, it was a really well written beautiful story about. Humanity and love and yeah, I, I just, I fell in love with the characters and the, history and storyline. But to be specific, I, I really enjoyed Vanessa and Joan's story. Mm-hmm. And the fact that it was taking place in the eighties mm-hmm. And really thinking about what that would have been like for two lesbians just trying to love one another. And it really got me thinking and reflecting on one of my uncles who passed two years ago, two summers ago. And he was born in the forties mm-hmm. And was always an openly gay man and would sometimes dress and drag. Mm-hmm. And I just think about all those stories what exactly was life like to to have this identity. And he was very open about it, my uncle. But then thinking about like Vanessa and Joan they couldn't be, they felt like they couldn't be right. And so, it was very interesting to me, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think too, because after I finished reading the book, I was doing like a little bit of research, and I actually didn't know this, but Sally Wright, who is briefly featured in this book, because she was the first woman to go to space. She also, yeah, that's, she also was a lesbian and Oh had to hide her relationship for a very, very long time. And it wasn't until I think her dad as she was dying, her partner, her life partner was like, you know, when you pass away, can I, is it okay for me to tell people what our relationship was publicly, finally, and oh my gosh. She was like, yeah, you can. And so the fact that for their entire lives, essentially, aside from the people who were really close to them, most people didn't know that Wow. You know, she was in this relationship and that she was queer and. I, I'm assuming, because I didn't look at any interviews with TJR or anything, but I'm assuming that mm-hmm. Sally Wright's story very much informed Yeah. The writing of this book and just female experiences in nasa in, in the eighties. Yeah. Late seventies. And so I thought that was a really interesting connection. And to your point I wonder what it was like, well, we have Sally rides, like her experience, and recently, quite recently, I haven't watched it. There was a documentary that was released about her life Oh, okay. About her experiences, which I do wanna watch.'Cause I feel like it would be, it would give a lot of really good insight into what that might have been like for yeah. A queer person just in general at that time, but also in a very public, as you said, a very public mm-hmm. You know, facing role. Mm-hmm. Because astronauts are you know, these national heroes and they're going around totally as we see in the book. Like they're going to schools and speaking at events mm-hmm. And meeting, you know, politicians and Right. So you very much couldn't have your, be anonymous, your sexuality on display, especially if it wasn't, you know, if you weren't in a heterosexual relationship. Mm-hmm. So I am, I love that she dived into that. Yeah.'cause it, it's a different dynamic than if you were a gay person who was like, I don't know, a banker, you know? Mm-hmm. So yeah, I really liked that as well. Yeah. And just all of the small details about remembering what it was like before, like cell phones and the internet and everything. I loved that aspect of it too. She's like talking about mailing in her application and you are like, what the fuck? You're like, yeah, of course. Although I had to mail in all of my college applications. Yeah. Yeah. So that was like the early two thousands, but yeah. Mm-hmm. It, it was a different time for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. But it's funny because this book is about, you know, essentially this advanced technology or like space travel and at the same time, you know, their everyday lives like, oh my gosh. Yeah. They don't have like cell phones or the internet or Yeah. Or all the times that like things, the whole thing with Barbara and why that happened was because they didn't have cell phones is because she couldn't call. Oh, right. When she couldn't to be like. Hey, I'm not gonna be, I missed my flight or whatever she was doing, you know? Yeah, yeah. Oh God. I, which I know you're, I, I think you're supposed to strongly dislike Barbara, but she aggravated me. Oh, no. End her. Just like her intense selfishness and self-centeredness and her complete and utter disregard for her child was just so infuriating. Yeah. And the way that Joan. Joan was interesting to me because she's incredibly ambitious. She's incredibly intelligent, Uhhuh, she's accomplishing amazing things and at the same time she doesn't really have the backbone to stand up to her sister. Mm-hmm. And just lets her sister take advantage of her walk all over her. And that was just like a really interesting contrast.'cause of course both things can be true. Oh, absolutely. And I was like, why can't you apply kinda the same, I don't know, drive and intensity that you have for your work and your relationship with Barbara.

Amanda (2):

Mm-hmm. That was really hard to watch. She kind of eventually gets there though. Right? That's why she does. She does. She tells her off and then Barbara's yeah, this is actually what I wanted the whole time is like kind of how it read. Yeah. But it made sense. That Francis was always going to be Jones. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's a really beautiful line. I think it might be in one of my. Reviews that I'll read later. Mm-hmm. When Joan is talking to Francis and basically telling her that Yeah. You've always been mine. You know? Yeah. Just, well, just, you know, how many tears shed in this book? God? The, how many times did you cry? Oh, I don't, I know, I know for sure. At least twice, probably more, but definitely when she's having that, moment with Francis, obviously at the end I was, and here's the thing not to just jump to the ending already, but like this book was really interesting because it could have ended both ways, right? It could have ended with Vanessa dying. Yeah. And I would've been okay with that. Yeah. And it almost would've been more like, I don't know, gripping and poignant. Yeah. And it also works with her. Being alive. Right. And yeah. You know, they've already been through so much and so the fact that they finally have a chance to build a future together. Yeah. But yeah, when you hear her voice come over, like whatever, the communication system, at the end, I fell apart. I just, so, when you're reading a book, you can easily tell oh, this is the last page I'm reading. Right. I bet you're doing the audiobook. But in audio books, I was like, what the fuck? That's it. Mm-hmm. It's, it stopped so abruptly at the end and I was like, oh my God. Oh, yeah. And so I get, I get it. And there wasn't really much more to go in, into, their story was leading up to this point where they know that they're going to be together, but continue to face the same issues. Yeah. But clearly, like in the, in those last moments, like people were realizing what they meant to each other. Yeah. Even though they weren't saying it. Exactly. Yeah. It was clear that Vanessa was gonna lose her job as a astronaut, right? Mm-hmm. Because she didn't follow protocol, they're both gonna be landside basically mm-hmm. For the rest of their lives, but, mm-hmm. Yeah, it was very, it was very interesting. It was a very intense ending. It was very, very, very intense. I could see it playing out so clearly in my mind. And for those folks who didn't read the book, just for a little bit of clarity, as Vanessa is getting ready to attempt reentry mm-hmm. Right to earth. Mm-hmm. They lose. Their communication like So mission's normal loses Yeah. Which is normal. Mm-hmm. They lose their communication as they're reentering, but because the ship has this mechanical malfunction mm-hmm.

Kelsey:

The chances of them not making it are so much higher. And so when, when her voice cuts out and there's nothing Joan falls apart. Yeah. She's a mess in mission control. She's like reflecting on the relationship. She's essentially said goodbye. Yeah. Like she's already started the grieving process and then out of the ether you hear Vanessa's voice. So it really is this truly dramatic moment because as the reader you're like, all right, you're processing your feelings, you're letting Vanessa go. You're realizing that's the end of the relationship. And it's one of those like gut wrenching endings to a love story. And then she's just you know, she's there actually, and she made the right choice. You know, she made the right choice to save Lydia. Yeah. And it's funny because everyone hated Lydia, right? Like they hated her. Yes. But in a way where it's oh, that's the annoying little sister that's trying to like. One up everybody. Yeah. And she's just socially awkward at the same time too. Yes.'Cause like again, for those folks who didn't read it, she's this astronaut. She's also very much like Joan. Incredibly intelligent. Incredibly ambitious. Like no holds barred, is out to be the best female astronaut ever. And she doesn't know how to like temper that with also just being a good teammate and comrade. Yes. Yeah. But she wants like deep down, she wants that, she wants connection, she wants to be liked and accepted and she isn't sure how to find that balance. And Joan really is the only person who's willing to give her grace and put up with her. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Until, you know, Lydia does finally soften and kind of come around. Yeah. And so, yeah. So then it's especially meaningful that Lydia's the one that Vanessa chooses to save because they don't have the best relationship. Yeah. And the fact that she's willing to risk her life. For this woman who she's not particularly close to. Yeah. Is says a lot. And because I think it also speaks to the relationships that the astronauts have in general. Yeah. Even though she's annoying to many people. Yeah. She's still their family essentially. Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite moments in the book was Lydia's confrontation with Joan about why she got picked for a mission first. Mm-hmm. Because that was Lydia's whole idea is that I'm the smartest. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna be picked for a mission first. Mm-hmm. And everyone thought that too. Mm-hmm. And then surprise, surprise, Joan gets picked for a mission and it's before Lydia. Well, but not everybody thinks, not everybody thinks Lydia's the smartest. Because I remember when they were at the bar, Vanessa's no, Lydia, like Joan is just as smart if not smarter than you are.

Amanda:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kelsey:

But what. Lydia does do, and everybody knows that. She does do, is that mm-hmm. She's very persistent and like super hardworking. Yeah. And she wants that top spot. So she's kind of giving this air of I'm gonna get it. Right. Yeah. And so, Joan has this conversation with her. Mm-hmm. She's it's not just about you, Lydia. Yeah. It's about all of us, and it's about our strengths that lend itself well to the collective. Mm-hmm. And I thought that was a really great moment. Yeah. And, and you could tell like in the, in the writing that Lydia was like, fuck I have to think about this. And she's really trying to take this in from Joan. Yeah. But it it also speaks to a larger issue within womanhood and feminism, right? Mm-hmm. Is that for sure. If we want to move, women forward, we have to do it together. Mm. And historically we've seen, you know, that's not always the case, right? Some women are like, I don't care about how this is gonna impact my sisters. I'm going to make sure that I achieve this thing and mm-hmm. Everyone else be damned. And Joan at one point, I believe it's Joan, she makes some comment and they might be, she might be in conversation with some of the other women, how if one, if one of the women in this program makes a mistake or slips up in some way, that ruins the chances for every other woman, both present and future mm-hmm. To make it in this program. Yes.'cause they're being judged as a collective and everyone's waiting for, you know, one of these new female astronauts to drop the ball so that it can reinforce their idea that yes, women don't belong in space. And here we have proof. Mm-hmm. From shutting down this program, women go back, you know, to the classrooms, go back to the kitchens, whatever. And so, yeah. It is this idea that, you know, if we wanna make progress, if we want to dismantle sexism and the patriarchy, it's only gonna happen when women are supporting other women. Mm-hmm. And not trying to work against each other.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey:

And it's something that Lydia has to learn and it learns over the course of this book.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Amanda (2):

Because part of what Lydia's doing is undermining a lot of what's going on for the women because she's trying to be a man in the man's club, Uhhuh, and she laughs at their inappropriate jokes Yeah. And sides with the men. Mm-hmm. And I think Joan is the one that helps Lydia start to see Yeah. Like her errors. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. No, I, I loved that storyline too. Yeah. She gets her little redemption arc for sure. Yeah. Which was nice because at the beginning you're like, Ugh. And it's interesting'cause Lydia does get one Lydia comes around and by the end of it I'm like, oh, Lydia. Yeah. You've got a special place in my heart. Yeah. But Barbara doesn't like I didn't really feel like there was. A redemption art for her, not that there has to be. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But she kind of is the villain in the story. In the story throughout the whole, and Daniel. Yeah. And you don't really see her. There's never a moment where she's like let me stop for a minute.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey:

Take stock of what I am doing and my actions and how they're impacting other people, or my child, how it's destroying my child's life. Mm-hmm. And she, she never does that. And it was really devastating to see that, especially as you mentioned in the summary. When, because Francis is having a really hard time adjusting to her mom, marrying this new man.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey:

Who largely ignores her and doesn't like her and doesn't like her. And so as Francis understandably is getting more moody and more withdrawn, her mother's response isn't to reach out and to help her. Right. It's to ship her off to boarding school because mm-hmm. She's being troublesome and literally leaves her there. Yeah. And so you see this young girl who's trying to find her place and, you know, find someone who loves her unconditionally and it's ends up, you know, not being her mom, right? Mm-hmm. Joan becomes that person for her. Yeah. So that was just devastating to watch and I mean, ultimately uplifting because her and Joan have an amazing relationship. Mm-hmm. But that broke my heart, to see a mother be so completely disinterested in her child's life. Mm-hmm. And. Just so lacking and empathy and understanding of Yeah. Our gross, even just so blind she is, and how she pokes at Joan's romantic life and has no idea what's going on.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Kelsey 2.0:

And I'm, I'm curious, do you remember that time where they were talking about this? She's you can't bring a woman to my wedding. Mm-hmm. And she was going off about this and then Daniel takes Barbara to the back room or something Yeah. And tells her something and is like you need to let her, whatever. Yeah. And I'm like, curious about that. Like, why did Daniel do that? What is your hunch? Oh, I don't know. I, I have no idea actually. I don't know if it was just simply to keep the piece and just like smooth things over with Joan. I also wonder if in some corner of his mind he's can see. That Joan and Francis are tight and that they get along well. Oh. Like I need to keep this woman on our good side because she is gonna be essential Yeah. In helping us manage this child. Right. So maybe that was strategic on his part as well, because if they had alienated Joan in any way it might've come back to bite them later mm-hmm. When they then would want to rely on Joan for childcare, you know, whatever it might be. So maybe I, I, I don't know. I didn't spend too much time thinking about it, but it did seem a bit out of character for him. Mm-hmm. Because he seems very, like by the book, very rigid in his thinking. Very like old school and traditional. Yeah, because I, it was surprising. I don't think it had anything to do with him knowing that no Joan was a lesbian. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't think, but that's kind of the only thing that you would think, right. Other than what you just said. Yeah, if you dig a little deeper, you're like, maybe it was more like this. But yeah, it just interesting why that moment was in there. Yeah. Or was it, I just, the whole thing, I just kept thinking about Daniel. Maybe he was like abusive to Barbara and I just, I I was curious about the dynamic there. Oh, yeah. I mean, for someone to convince you to get rid of your child, essentially. That's, yeah, but she didn't deal much convincing, right? She already, had one foot out the door, like Joan was already basically raising France. So I don't think it took that much for him to be like, yes. No. Then a morning school, you know, like she clearly wanted to go and live the life that she felt was stolen from her when she got pregnant so young and was a teen mom. Yeah. So I, yeah, I don't think she was that broken up about it. Yeah. No, she definitely didn't read that way on pa, on the. In the, in the book God. Yeah. Paper. Yeah. On the page in the book. But but oh, there was one other thing. Oh, I was gonna say too, that I felt like Barbara and Joan's relationship was very realistic. Because sometimes when your family members make shitty decisions mm-hmm. You are helping them clean it up Oh yeah. And helping them with it. Oh, oh, for sure. And it's like the, that came off, so Yep. True. In this book and that dynamic. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Especially that like older, younger, dynamic older sibling Oh, sibling dynamic. And how often, not always older siblings, there's this expectation placed on them Yeah. Too. Or, or just higher expectations in general. Mm-hmm. That are not, you got your parents first. It was like Exactly. That is very true in my family for sure. Yeah. It's, it does create a particular. Dynamic that I, that I do think Yeah. Was pretty accurately depicted

Amanda:

mm-hmm. In this

Amanda (2):

story and did feel very gritty and real. And yeah. And you know, to be fair to Barbara, yes, she makes horrible decisions and I don't think she's a particularly good person. Mm-hmm. But she, you, Hmm. Taylor does give Barbara space in the novel to try to justify or explain why she's the way she is, if that makes sense. Right? Mm-hmm. So, you know, she is, this teen mom who made poor decisions as, as adolescent as we all do, and hers just happened to have lifelong consequences. But she, you know, does feel like she didn't have the opportunities because of that, that Joan did. And so there is resentment there and like life is unfair. I got saddled with this kid so young and it's kept me mm-hmm. From. Having a life that would allow me to pursue a job that would help me to earn more money. Mm-hmm. You know, going to school, like all of these things. And so, like her resentment, while I'm not saying it's a good thing, it's understandable. Like I'm sure she's not the only teen mom that was like, damn, I got pregnant and I made a really stupid choice and now I'm living with the consequences and mm-hmm. I have a lot of big feelings about that. Mm-hmm. And she just, you know, ends up processing them in a way that's unhealthy. But you, you do see in different conversations. Kind of why she is the way that she is. And again, not saying that it's okay, but she's, she's a human. She's just, yeah. You know, and that just reminds me of like, when Joan was talking about how she tattled on her sister. Right. But it was after she had Francis and then Barbara was gonna go out and do the same shit she's always been doing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And Joan was like, fuck this. Yeah. Dude, seriously. Yeah, because,'cause Barbara does have, you know, a tendency to go out and she was a wild child. She was a wild child in her youth. And so, you know, as, as my great grandma would say, you make your bed hard, you lie in it. And you know, she made these choices and Yes. Doesn't, yeah. So Interesting. Yeah. I loved that tidbit though. Yeah. Yeah. Man, I really loved the depiction of Joan becoming aware that she was a lesbian. Because she thinks that something's wrong with her, right? Mm-hmm. Because the only way that she has seen love depicted is a man and a woman. Right. Right. And then eventually she doesn't even see it coming. She doesn't even see it coming and it just happens. And she's having this conversation with Vanessa And like talking about, wait, what? But wait, but she has that moment though, so gr So Griff, who we haven't talked about too much. Oh yes. Griff is one of the other astronauts in their group, obviously a dude and you know, he's attracted to Joan and they have this burgeoning friendship and mm-hmm. It's clear that he wants to get to know her in a romantic sense, et cetera. And at one point in the story, they take a trip down to, I believe, new Orleans and Yes. There's this moment and the evening and like Joan has continued to be kind of evasive with Griff and not give him a straight answer. And I think they've gone on a couple of dates at this point, but it's just it's just not gelling for Joan. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's the night when she kisses Griff? Yes. Because she's just maybe I just need to like, get outta my head and you know, mm-hmm. Kiss this man and do what I'm supposed to do as a woman and fall in love with a guy. Yeah. She realizes as does Griffin, that moment like, oh, and he tells her like, you have feelings for someone else. Uhhuh implying that it's Vanessa.'cause it's very clear to other people that she has feelings for her. Yes. And it's really that moment in New Orleans where things start to shift for her. And they also go to that strip club, right? Right. Before that it was the strip club. Right? Before she was like, oh my God, all of these women are really doing something for me. And so between that and the kiss with Griff, that's like her kind of little epiphany And it was so funny, like going back to the strip club, she like stays there for extended time. Right. And she's just watching this woman, Raven. Yeah. Yeah. And apparently Vanessa leaves, right? And yes, Vanessa's not happy. Joan wakes up in the morning and has, she also is an artist and so she drew all these photos or pictures of Raven, this woman that she, the stripper that she was staring at the whole time. Mm-hmm. And then

Kelsey:

um,

Amanda (2):

Vanessa makes a comment that morning, I think, and it's

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

yeah, she comes to wake her up'cause she's late. Yes. And she's

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

she's the only one that looked like me. Yep. That, to love that moment. It was so great. Yeah. Yeah. It was a great way to kind of like illustrate this shift that Oh, Jonas realizing that maybe she's not into dudes and that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I honestly, I can't imagine how terrifying that realization must, must have been, especially in the early eighties when you know, this really. It was not accepted. Wasn't accepted, you know, I mean, there were obviously people who were queer and out at that time, but often at great risk to themselves. And again, certainly not in a position as prestigious of a position as she was in, as, you know, part of mm-hmm. The NASA program. Yeah. So, yeah, I thought Taylor did a really good job of kind of illustrating that. And I, if I'm remembering correctly, I am like, yeah, Taylor is bi Taylor, Jen, Andre. Oh, okay. And so I'm sure part of her own experience is she uses to inform, it's woven in here mm-hmm. Her, her writing as a, as a queer person as well. But yeah, I really love that. But that's seen at the, at, at the strip club is'cause as a reader you're like, oh, I know what's happening here. Right. Yes. Even though Joan doesn't fully understand yet. Yeah.

Kelsey:

Um,

Amanda (2):

So yeah, there's a little bit of dramatic irony happening and that was really cool. I liked that. Yeah.

Kelsey:

Um,

Amanda (2):

so yeah,, I loved that. And then their whole love story. Mm. It's just, they just dive right in. Yeah. And then Vanessa's

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

yeah, I don't get attached and mm-hmm. Vanessa's this whole thing of

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

I don't meet family. Yeah.

Kelsey:

Um,

Amanda (2):

Yeah. She doesn't wanna meet France for the longest time. She's

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

I don't wanna do it.'cause this is just, this is fun. And especially'cause there was no like set future at that time you couldn't get married, et cetera. Yeah. And often would have to hide your relationships. Oh. But that just reminded me, oh, that's what it was. There is that moment, which also was like, ugh. So gut-wrenching. But there's so many gut-wrenching moments. We are Vanessa and Joan. Break up Uhhuh because Yeah. Someone in the space program has basically ratted them out to their superiors. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so Joan gets called into, and I'm blanking on the guy's name, but

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

her super Antonio, I think Antonio and her supervisor's office. And he basically, in a very coded way mm-hmm. Is

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

Hey, if you are gay and in a relationship, like you can't be in this program.

Kelsey:

Like,

Amanda (2):

Stop it. Gotta Yeah. Like either end of the relationship or you're not gonna be able to stay here. And so that really rattles Joan because that was, was that right before her mission or after her mission? Yeah, it was right before. It was right before her mission. Her mission, yeah. And so she's

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

I'm not gonna risk. You know, my chance of going to space. And also Vanessa, who's wanted this so much. Yeah. So she kind of calls Vanessa over, they have this conversation and Joan ends it with Vanessa and Vanessa's

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

I would rather never fly again than not have you. Mm-hmm. But they like end things. And then Vanessa basically goes across the street and calls her on a payphone, on the payphone and is

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

I don't accept this breakup. And they come back together and it's really, but that's convers. So Yeah. I thought it was gonna be real. I thought it too was that is what was gonna happen. And I was like, and now she's in space and she's gonna die and they just broke up. Yep. Yeah. Because again, they're switching back and forth between the timelines. Yeah. And so you're like, oh, they had this conversation and she's gonna die and they're never gonna have reconciled. Yeah. They're gonna still be broken up, but no, they like get back together almost immediately. So yeah. I. From the beginning I thought I had this book pegged. I was like, oh, Vanessa's dying. Oh great. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. I was actually really surprised about it. Yeah. Especially not just that she doesn't die, but because of what happens with Barbara as well. I thought there was gonna be some sort of like abuse oh, like something's happening to Francis, or, yeah, that's what I thought too or be awful to her or something. But really it was just negligence, I guess. Yeah. Or what is that called? Yeah. Yeah. Negligence. Yeah. You just aren't like taking care of your kid. Yeah. And then sending her to boarding school was like a huge turn for me. Mm-hmm. I was like, wait, what? Didn't see that coming either. So I was, I was pleasantly surprised. But the fact that I actually cried at the very beginning of the book. Oh. Where you find out Hank and who is it? Hank, and who's the other guy that dies because it's gross. Hank and Griffin look. No, but Griff gets hit by the explosion Uhhuh and doesn't die right away. Yeah. There's two guys that die from like suffocation. I thought the crew was just Hank, Griff, Lydia and Vanessa. It's just the four of'em Are there five? I think that there's their fifth person. Oh. Because there's two bodies that she puts in the room where you go out to space. Oh, you're right. I remember. I don't know the other person. I dunno, you read it more recently than I did. So when they died I was like, and Griff died. I was just like, oh God. Yeah. It was just, and and they're Andre Wre and they're walking, the wives of these men are

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

like in, you know, the room or like listening on the radio and you're just like, yeah. Gosh. Listening to the fact that their loved ones have passed. Yeah. But I guess my question for you is why do you think TJR didn't. Have Vanessa die because she could have, she could have, like the book works with her dying. Why do you think she did it? Yeah, I mean, I think it speaks more to'cause the book was about not necessarily tragedy, but it was about their love story as lesbians in the eighties. And I think that, if she lives, the reader is going to be thinking about, oh, what is their life gonna look like in the future too? Mm-hmm. And it leaves more open than closed, if that makes sense. Okay. And I think that, I don't think I'm like explaining it well, but I think the, the point of the story was their love story Uhhuh and the backdrop of the eighties. And their story doesn't end here. And their their issues and conflicts are not just ending. They, they're gonna continue throughout. Yeah. I don't know. I think that's like very compelling. Yeah. No, I mean, like I said, I think it works both ways. So I was just curious why you think she, I mean, why do you think there's no right answer? I don't know if I have a good answer either. I mean, I think because I think there's a couple of things. It's like one, the queer community historically has already endured so much, right? Mm-hmm. Sometimes, you know, when we think about books about race, it's

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

well, we don't want our race to be defined by trauma. We don't want race to be defined solely by tragedy and all the things that we've had done to us. Yeah. And so I think giving this queer couple a happy ending essentially is really important so that they're not just defined by like their struggles, their conflicts, their challenges. So for me, I think that's part of the reason why she chose. Mm-hmm. For Vanessa to survive and for them to get this opportunity to build a life together, especially'cause like mm-hmm. A lot of people, you know, didn't, right? Mm-hmm. For a variety of reasons. Yeah. Didn't get that opportunity. So that was my thinking. Mm-hmm. Is that, as with any marginalized group, you don't want our stories to always be defined by the negative, right? Mm-hmm. Because we're so much more than that. Mm-hmm. And there's like a lot of joy in our stories. And so that was my thinking when I read it. Yeah. And I, I, mm-hmm. Really, I think providing Francis with a home Yeah. A, a family that truly wanted her and cared about her was really important. Vanessa was a part of that, right? Yeah. It's a big, it's a big part of that. So that was my thinking as to, I, I don't know. I didn't read, like I said, I didn't normally read author interviews.'cause I like to make up my own mind about things. Mm. But yeah, I think that's why maybe I love seeing authors like in person. Mm-hmm. That's so fun to me. Yeah. Especially if it's an author that you really love. Yeah. Like I saw Angeline Bully what was it, last month? This month? Earlier this month. Oh yeah. To Canada. And it was so impactful. I was like, damn. Like I just felt so great after that. Yeah. And just more insight into who she is and like why she writes her books. Like it was, it was really great. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I, I've gotten to see authors speak at conferences. Like I've seen Brian Stevenson speak twice, which is amazing'cause he's the one who wrote Just Mercy. So yeah, I would, I would, oh my gosh, I need to actually see if she's ever coming to Seattle. I would love to see TGR like in person and go to a chat. Oh yeah. Whenever one of her books, doesn't she have a book coming out next year? I feel like I've seen, I saw it. I've been like so caught up in atmosphere'cause I was like, she just released it this year. Yeah. I maybe, I mean, she's pretty, when was this one released? This year? Well, when, this year. Oh. In the beginning of the summer, the end of spring. Oh, okay. So it's a very recent book. Yeah. It's it's pretty new. Mm-hmm. Quite new. But yeah. Do you have any other final thoughts about this book or anything that you didn't like? Because we didn't actually talk about the negatives, but I guess if it's a five star there probably weren't maybe any or, yeah. The only thing that I thought, I thought I had the book pegged and then it surprised me. So at the beginning I was like, okay, yeah, but it, yeah. Surprise me. Yeah. But the one other scene that I wanted to discuss was the fact that Joan really loves the stars and has just so much knowledge about mm-hmm. The stars and then teaches Vanessa mm-hmm. I just love those moments. That's one of my favorite activities is just like staring up into the sky. Mm-hmm. I never want to go up into space because that is fucking terrifying. Mm-hmm. But I love the awe of looking at the stars and not knowing what's out there, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so that part was special to me and hit, yeah, hit hit a chord for me. Yeah. They go out star gazing together. It's really cute. Yeah. That's so sweet. Yeah. Yeah.'cause she,'cause what? Vanessa's a pilot. Yes. And you don't necessarily need to have a good grasp of the stars to do that. Nope. But now that you're heading out to space, it's a little bit different. Yeah. So, yeah, I think it was a cute way to show their growing relationship. Mm-hmm. In those moments. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely agree. Awesome. Yay. Okay, well then let's well actually I guess I was gonna do final recommendations, but I feel like it's a no-brainer. I feel like we both recommend it. Yeah. I feel like any reader would, could enjoy this book. Yeah. I'm even thinking like my husband could enjoy this book, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And he's just a very particular like horror reader. Yeah. But yeah, he's currently reading oh gosh. Fire Keeper's daughter. Oh yeah. Because I got him onto that one. I'm glad he is finally reading. It's so good. Yes, yes. Yeah, I agree. It's very accessible. You're gonna fall in love with Vanessa and Joan. You're gonna learn a lot about space in the eighties and like the NASA program. Yeah. Which I found particularly fascinating'cause I know a lot about it. So you're gonna learn something new and from a different perspective. So yeah, and all of her books are very easy to read. You know, I think some authors, yeah. Sometimes quite gifted authors, their writing can be. A bit dense or abstract or, or mm-hmm. You know, just difficult to process what exactly it is they're trying to convey, like

Amanda:

mm-hmm. I

Kelsey:

had that issue earlier with what is it? Death Takes Me which is the only book so far. I've dn FD this year and Oh yeah, I know. And which, who's the author of that one? It's, oh God, Christina Garza, I think is her name. She's a Spanish author and the book was translated and, oh, it's kind of this like poetic prose. Mm-hmm. And she makes a lot of references to things that I think probably hold a lot of weight in Spanish culture and art, but I don't have a lot of reference points for. Mm-hmm. And so I was just like, I, I can see that you were so gifted and this is going above my head got it. And I'm having to work way too hard just to read one page and I'm not enjoying myself. Mm-hmm. I could see if I was still in my master's program or like my undergrad, like diving into this book in a class. Sure. And you know, like unpacking it in a workshop of some kind or seminar. But I was like, for me to just read this for fun, like this is, this is this is too much work. Too much work. So yeah, TR books are obviously not like that at all. Mm-hmm. So yeah, highly recommend this book. Loved it so much. Great. But yeah, let's do our literally the best or literally the worst. I'll be reading five star reviews from Good Reads. Kelsey's got one star. One star. And I will say there were few one stars. Good as there should be for this book. I should be like, I think this book had a four point something rating. Yeah, it does. It does. It was very high rating. Yeah. Okay. My first review is from Faye and I just had to include it. It's very, very short. Not for me, but Katie Perry would love this. Oh God. Does Katie Perry read? I don't even know if she does. Who knows? Who knows? Because she was so obsessed with going to space, so Yes. Oh my God. Okay, well that's too funny. My first five star is also a shorter one, but not that short. So this is from Sophia Jane Miller. I saw someone say that this book feels like TJR is breaking your heart while simultaneously giving you a forehead kiss. And I simply couldn't agree with that more. I couldn't put this book down and when I did have to, I couldn't stop thinking about it. The characters were everything to me and I already missed them so much. Yes. Yeah, I like that. I really did enjoy the characters. They just were very in depth, even just thinking about Lydia and who she is, like

Amanda:

mm-hmm.

Kelsey 2.0:

Yeah. And Barbara, she was like, you know, she's like a side character. Right. But she still was so well developed. Yep. Yeah. Okay. My second review, it's a little longer from reading Tam Ishly. Hmm. Okay. Do you know what that means? Is that like a play on Tamsin or is it a play on something else? It's not a word idea. It's not? Okay. You would know better than me. Okay. She did not have enough coffee while writing this book. Theme on glamor. Worked theme on sports, worked theme on romance, worked theme on music, worked theme on love triangle worked. Theme on infidelity work. Theme on loss worked, but this theme went right outta space. Not even once it felt like I was reading a TJR book. I thought it might get better as it usually does with good books, but my life seemed shorter and shorter as the book got longer and longer and not sorry for the rating and how much I got bored while reading this book, which took place in four different occasions. The dialogues are flat, the characters are flat, and nothing much is going on. Everything is flat and the boredom got worse. TJR you are my favorite, but this one is an easy miss. Wait, what did, what do they mean about the four different timelines? There's two storylines. I know. Which, which two place in four different occasions. I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means either. I, I was sensing it was talking about the timelines, but it really was only two. There's only two. Yeah. I don't know. This person sounds confused. Also, all they really said was it was flat and they got bored. That's crazy to me. Yeah. Because I feel like this is one of those books where as the person my first review said they just, they're, they're, they're everything. You know, like they're so well constructed. They're so in depth, they're so realistic. This book is so much about their relationships with each other. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Set against this, this high stakes backdrop of these space missions where like anything could go wrong and it's life and death. Yeah. Life or death. That's, yeah. Okay. Alright. Well, thank you. One person's opinion of One person's opinion. Okay. Next five star is from Nina from Ninja's Books. Okay. I want to get this review right to honor the book properly. This is not a book you leave behind. It's a treasure that will live inside you as long as you live. I can't remember a love story that has touched me more, shattered my heart and plastered it back together again. Transcending space and time perfectly illustrated by a plot about reaching for the stars and pondering big questions. It never felt trite. Instead, I encountered again my childhood, awe for the unknown, my thirst for knowledge, and looking for what makes me happy. There was also a wonderful subplot of the love between Joan and her sister's child. There story was magical and real. Lastly, I cried. I cried so much that I needed to take a moment to just breathe. What kind of book is able to do that? This one. Yeah. Yeah. I actually did that too. I was like listening in bed and I was just sobbing and Esia was next to me and I was just like, oh my God. It is so powerful and it really, it does break your heart and then it puts it back together at the very end. But yeah, it was beautiful. Okay. This is my longest one. Okay. But I thought it was important'cause it gives us things to talk about. Okay. Okay. And it's a different perspective than, than us. Okay. Women in STEM commentary, oh, this is from Sarah Taft, by the way. Okay. I am tired. This commentary is tired. The horse is beat. The cow is dry. The cupboard is bare. Choose your metaphor and it's applicable here. Every instance of feminist commentary has been said a dozen times before and it's been said a dozen times better. There's no new or unique approach. No ingenious or special message. It's period. Peace Ali Hazelwood. And I mean that as an explicit insult. Maybe this is just my response since this is my field. A sort of occupational hazard reaction coupled with the dangers of reading this close to home. I don't know, maybe others feel differently, but I'm tired. Do better. And the second portion,'cause this review was much longer. Okay. And I clipped two different portions of it. Okay. Religion in the face of science and queerness. I almost don't know how to begin to address this in a way that fully captures my ire. How do you ire? Mm-hmm. So I'll simply start with a few relevant quotes. I'm passionate about the Milky Way Joan said, and I think God's in it. And I think the pursuit of finding one law to explain the universe is yes science, but it's also the pursuit of God. You are wasted being a scientist. This is Vanessa. Now you should be an evangelical preacher with that kind of face and all this compelling proselytizing punch me in the face and piss on the wound. No, seriously. There are some scientists who are religious and ascribed to this mentality. Yes, Einstein was one of them, but especially in conservative and religious circles, he is regularly cherry picked as an example, despite his beliefs not being pervasive among modern astrophysicists. So very few of us are religious, so very few of us believe in God. And if you want to look historically, there are tons of other big names in the field Who were vocal activists, active Atheists, Hawking, FEMEN Schrodinger and I can't pronounce the last one. If you want to write a protagonist whose belief structure is accurately represented of the astrophysics collective, this is not how you do it. So you, Sarah? I'm actually, yeah. I'm glad she meant text. We didn't talk about religion at all. Yeah. Does come up quite a few times in conversations particularly the one that you just mentioned in the quote. Yeah, I can, I can imagine reading a book about your field as a woman and having strong feelings about how it's conveyed. Mm-hmm. That makes so much sense to me. And as someone who is not in that position, obviously I can't, I can't speak to that from the I perspective. Mm-hmm. But I think she makes valid points. Like I have nothing I'm not gonna be like, oh, you're wrong. And I would give her opinion more weight than you know. Mine even,'cause I'm not in that field. And even more than TGR, because yes, she did her research, but she's not in that field either.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm.

Amanda (2):

I think the only thing I would push back on maybe is the whole feminist, like this has been said before. Mm-hmm. This is tired and it's like, well if something is true mm-hmm. Of course you're gonna encounter it many times in many different ways, right? Yeah. And so I don't know that TGR was trying to say something new about feminism mm-hmm. In this novel. I don't actually think that was the point. And. If you're writing a historical book that takes place in the eighties, the characters are gonna reflect the thinking about feminism in the eighties. Yes. So it's gonna feel dated to us. It's gonna feel old and tired because it is you're not gonna have them, like talking about 21st century Yeah. Approaches to feminism mm-hmm. In the 1980s, like that would be anachronistic and make no sense. Mm-hmm. So I will push back on that, but yeah, I don't know. I don't remember the commentary about God in the book other than this moment. Do you remember the other instances? Was Joan religious? Is that what was coming on? I don't, I mean, I. I remember her referencing God a couple of times. I didn't, she doesn't come off as like extremely religious. Yeah. There's no talk of her you know, attending religious services or having any sort of faith practices. Yeah. So for me, I didn't think it was a big deal because I, I think it is possible to be a scientist and also believe in some sort of divine being. Yeah. I don't think those two things are like mutually exclusive. Mm-hmm. So yeah. I wonder if, if, hmm, if this person is like. Making a bigger deal of it than it is. Yeah. Because it didn't come off to me that either character was religious. And I think Vanessa even talks about her mother disowning her or something. Or maybe it was Joan who didn't want to go to church when they were older or younger or whatever. And then I felt like this was a joke from Vanessa about being evangelical preacher. I didn't feel like she was talking about like realistically being preacher. Right. No, she's, yeah. She's being sarcastic. Yeah. There. And the other thing too is again, that I think this, this reviewer is missing is. This is historical fiction. It takes place in the eighties. Granted less people were religious in the eighties than they were in like the, you know, the forties or the fifties. Right? Sure. But it still was quite pervasive in American culture. Yes. For a lot of households to be Protestant or Catholic or have some sort of faith. Exactly. And so like that to me tracks mm-hmm. That Joan and some of the other characters. And again, she's talking about her experience now, this, this reviewer Yes. Of like in the 21st century, like a lot of us don't have faith, A lot of us don't believe in God, but I'm like, that maybe wasn't the case back in the eighties. Right, right. So again, she's taking her perspective from 2025 mm-hmm. And putting it on this story and judging it by that criteria. And I don't think that's always a great thing to do with historical fiction. Yeah. And I just don't think that there was like a strong idea of God in this. No, I, I agree. I don't think, I think that's missing, like that's, yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. But also, like you're saying, it was within, it was embedded in the lives of people Yeah. Back then. Yeah. And especially thinking about their identity being queer and lesbians. Yeah. Knowing that's contradicting the current norm, right? Yeah. Which is religious and just society at large. Mm-hmm. And so I think that putting it in there, it supports what TJR is trying to convey. Yeah. And also like they're in Texas. Yeah. All of the things that's also Right. Also offered at the setting, right? Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, anyway, I, I, I like that review though. That led to some, some conversation that we didn't talk about earlier. Yeah. Okay. This, I think this next one is also my longest one, but it's not super, super long. Okay. This is from Violet. Any book that makes me SOB is an automatic five stars. Taylor Jenkins reads talent, passion, and imagination shine through in everything she creates. I can count on her to break my heart every single time and will always willingly sign up for it over and over again, although I'm not overly fascinated by space. As an eighties baby, I grew up with a certain appreciation for the astronauts I witnessed making history in real time. Those who made it back to share their stories, and especially those who didn't. As with so many of TJ's books, this all felt so real. It felt like a true behind the scenes look into what it was like for those who were creating history in the 1980s at NASA Atmosphere, A love story was just that so much love, whether it be forbidden, unconventional, passionate, found family, or even lost love. Love is love and always is a story worth telling quote, because people never fall in love with who they should. This whole world is full of stories of people falling in love with exactly who they weren't supposed to. It would be hard to this book Justice by trying to sum it up in a few words. I could go on and on. Profound plus Perfect. Come to mind first. The only thing that would make atmosphere better is if this green adaptation were already complete. Ooh. I, oh my gosh. Do hope they think this a movie. Oh my God. Could you imagine? Amazing. If if they did it right? Yes. It would be absolute freaking phenomenal. Yes. And I feel like we have so many space stories about men, like even the one that's coming out next year Project Hell, Mary, the book that I read, married again, it's it's a, it's a dude in space. There's so many dudes in space stories. Mm-hmm. I wanna see like a female in space story. With this plot. Oh God, it would be amazing. Okay. The other thing that this person said was this whole book is about people falling in love with who they shouldn't. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, oh, that actually tracks. Okay. So Barbara as well. Yeah. It's like she's falls in love with a guy that doesn't want children even though she has a fucking child. Right. And Griff and then even Donna's, well, Grifol's in love with Joan. Yeah. And like she is not interested. Yeah. And Donna and Hank, yeah. They talk about astronauts not falling in love because one of them could easily die, which happens. Which is what happens. Anyway. Yeah. That was intriguing. Okay. Last review for me. It's a shorter one from Casey with a K. If Joan was a spice, she'd be flour. It's okay. It's not that that short. It's not that short. Just can't. TJI is my favorite author, but my god. Do, do, do the characters boring the plot. Boring the romance. Boring. The pacing boring. The vibes boring. The plot felt so unfinished and pointless. I hated myself for not DN fing this. Oh my god. Wait, is that it? That's it. That's it. Okay. Well, they're favorite story. You don't understand why they think attitude is boring. I don't. Yeah, I I mean, I, I guess some people, and I did see this here and there, scattered about some people are like, there's so much information and detail about space and space travel and I'm like, I didn't think so. Like there's definitely a fair amount in there, but it, you know how some books, like for me, project Hell Mary did this where it's

Kelsey:

like,

Amanda (2):

I don't need this much information about the nitty gritty calculations that you're making.'cause I don't understand. Yeah, I don't understand this at that level. Like my expertise is not in this field and you giving me like the math equations that you're using to solve for whatever over my head don't understand. It does nothing for me. And I don't think she does that. Like all of the information that she conveys in this book is in layman's terms that anyone I think can understand. So, and also I didn't like, retain a lot of that. Yeah. So if you focus in on. Like what you're interested in. Like it doesn't phase you really? Yeah. I don't know. And it, it doesn't get in the way of you understanding the overall story either, so Not at all. Yeah. Anyhow. Okay. Last five star from Emma. Catherine, let's get it. Can't stop crying. I have been thinking hard about my review for this book, and honestly, I can't think of anything to say that even begins to express my absolute love for this book, but I can say. TJRI could read your words forever. I was emotionally invested in this story, all the way from the author's note at the beginning, right? Until the very last word. This book has so much going for it. But most of all, it's about true and pure love that comes in many different forms. These incredibly brave and memorable characters show us how to do that. Quote, the world would not care for her and Vanessa as they cared for each other. Quote. That is all for me for now. Yeah, it, it is just love in all of its beautiful many forms. Yeah.'cause it's not, it really is. It's not, it's not just Joan and Vanessa's love story. No, there's so many relationships in this book, that display love in all of its different permutations and it's beautiful. Yeah, it really is. Yeah. So, so, so good, but so glad I had to read this book. So glad you gave it five stars. I will probably have you read another TGR book in the future. I might read TGR on my own. You should. I would recommend Daisy Jones in the six. Okay. Like fricking love that book. What was the other? There's curious, that was, oh, you also, you were not the only one that recommended seven husbands of Yeah. Hugo. Hugo. Hugo.'cause that came up in our previous episode. Came up in our previous episode, and someone else mentioned it to me. Oh, it was a, it was a coworker at work. I was like, have you read Taylor Jenkins, Reed? You need to read this book. Yeah. Because there's a lot of in education in general. Yeah. Like a lot of folks are readers. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. And so I have tons of people to talk to at work about books. Well, if you read seven husbands, I just heard recently that I think Netflix acquired the rights for it. Oh. So it's gonna be made into, I guess I'm assuming a Netflix movie. Not a, well, it, it could be a, Ooh, it could be a minis series, but that could be cool because obviously she has a lot of relationships. But you should definitely read that one. Fun. As well. Yeah. And then we can highlight it too here. Yeah. But do you wanna do socials for folks as we wrap things up? So this is a long episode guys. I hope you enjoyed it. And just to redirect you at the end here we are on Instagram at Lit Vibes only underscore podcast and we're at TikTok and YouTube at Live Vibes only podcast. And to kind of give you an update, we're actually gonna be seeing a social media specialist. So you might be seeing us up in our game here soon. So it's true for that. I'm really excited about it. Yeah, same. But yes, definitely check out our socials and as always, we'll be doing voting on Thursday. So make sure to hop on our socials on Thursday and let us know if this book was a lit or quitter for you. Join the conversation'cause we want to hear from all of you. Yes. And yeah, we will see you next Monday. Bye bye.