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Ep. 56: Lit It or Quit It: A Court of Silver Flames by Sarah J Maas

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Join Kelsey and Amanda as they review 'A Court of Silver Flames,' diving into Nesta's messy redemption arc, badass female friendships, and an excessive amount of smut. Get ready for their candid opinions and wild theories about the next book!


00:00 Welcome to Lit Vibes Only

00:49 Follow Us on Social Media

08:44 Summary of A Court of Silver Flames

20:58 Book Discussion

45:42 Critiques and Final Thoughts

55:12 Conclusion and Social Media Engagement


Follow us on TikTok & Youtube @litvibesonlypodcast and on Instagram @litvibesonly_podcast. You can also email us at litvibesonlypodcast@gmail.com We'd love to hear from you!

See you on Mondays!

Ep. 56: Lit It or Quit It: A Court of Silver Flames

[00:00:00] Kelsey: Welcome to Lit Vibes Only, where we lit the shit outta books we love and hate. I'm Kelsey, the unhinged, diehard, romantic and fantasy reader. 

[00:00:13] Amanda: And I'm Amanda, the insightful, thrill seeker and historical fiction nerd. We are here with a special Baba bonus. Hey, episode. We're dork Continuing, we're continuing our dive into the guitar series with the final Yeah.

[00:00:32] Amanda: Well final for now book. Yeah. Which is a court of Silver Flames, which is super exciting. And we know all about 

[00:00:42] Kelsey: Miss Nesta. 

[00:00:43] Amanda: Yes, yes, yes, yes. We know y'all have lots of thoughts about this series, so hopefully this is a really fun episode for you guys as well. But, but, but before we start if you are not following us yet on socials, like what, what even are you doing with your life?

[00:00:55] Amanda: I don't understand. Oh, yeah. You know, you're sitting on your phone somewhere right now, so Exactly. Might [00:01:00] as well be following us. Open up TikTok and follow us at Lit Vibes Only Podcast. Or go to Instagram and follow us at Lit Vibes Only Underscore podcast. Or better yet, or not better yet, just as good as also go to YouTube, watch the full and check out our yes, full length video episodes.

[00:01:20] Amanda: Also at Lit Vibes only podcast. No underscore for that one. And you can just see all of our crazy antics that are happening as we're recording these episodes. So please be sure to do that follow, like, comment, subscribe, all of that amazing stuff. It's a great way to connect with us, join the community, show your support, get involved.

[00:01:38] Amanda: And the other really great, awesome, wonderful thing you can do for us is to rate and review this podcast. Heck yeah. Wherever you're listening to it, primarily Apple Podcasts and Spotify are most helpful for us. So, take a moment to say if you haven't yet, hit that five star button or, and or write a review.

[00:01:58] Amanda: I think we're still [00:02:00] really struggling in the reviews department, especially for Apple Podcasts. Yeah. Hopefully not so much at this point. 'cause at this point we'll have had our. Most recent giveaway and hopefully that inspired some more folks to write reviews. But it is really helpful and helps to kind of move our podcast up the rank so that it's more visible to other people.

[00:02:19] Amanda: Mm-hmm. So we just wanna be mid 

[00:02:20] Kelsey: you guys. We, so we need, we need some more, we just need to be a mid podcast. We just need some more of you to review, just to be mid. 

[00:02:29] Amanda: We're setting realistic expectations for ourselves. So yes, if you'd like to help us become at least a mid podcast, please take a moment and write a review on Apple Podcast and rate us over there.

[00:02:41] Amanda: Or if you're on Spotify, write a comment on whichever episode has most spoken to you, most appealed to you. And then also hit that, that rating as well. And we really appreciate it. I know we say this all the time, and for those of you who have been. With us since day one. You're probably sick to [00:03:00] death of us saying this every single episode, but guess what?

[00:03:03] Amanda: We're gonna keep doing it. So spread the word. Have your friends and family tune in and do all those good things. Great. But yeah, we've got some good content today. A good episode. Yeah. And we're just gonna dive right in. We're not gonna bother with like, what are we currently? Oh, oh, what, what? I wanna mention one thing.

[00:03:22] Amanda: Yes, go for it. 

[00:03:24] Kelsey: Did you see all of the action happening on Instagram and book talk around the sixth AAR announcement? 

[00:03:31] Amanda: No, no. When did this 

[00:03:32] Kelsey: happen? I was literally just off. You totally missed this. Was this like today? How did No, no. This was like a couple weeks back. Oh. Oh no. Then maybe I did see it. Go ahead.

[00:03:42] Kelsey: Sarah J Mass released a draft or said she was done the draft. Yeah, yeah. Did see that. I thought 

[00:03:48] Amanda: this was like, current, current. I was like, wait, like did this happen yesterday? 

[00:03:52] Kelsey: No, no. Thank goodness. I was like, where were you hiding? Because that was everywhere. That was everywhere. But I, I'm [00:04:00] so glad I did not do a video because like it was so saturated.

[00:04:03] Kelsey: Like everybody was doing reaction video to that post. But yeah, I, I think it was book huddle that posted about her predictions of the name for the next book. Oh, interesting. And it was so, it's so funny 'cause you know, any fandom that is. Intense. Like for AAR Uhhuh, it comes up with all of these ideas and thoughts on what's gonna happen next.

[00:04:32] Kelsey: Right. Yeah. And I just think it's so funny 'cause I never, like, I, I don't know, I just don't pay much attention to that stuff, I guess. And it's similar to like Swifties, you know? Oh yeah. Where just like all of the Easter eggs you have to find all the Easter eggs obsessed. Yeah. But I also think that is a cultural like phenomenon right now where people do that and in books that, like the Easter eggs or just having like really [00:05:00] crazy fans that are obsessive the Easter eggs.

[00:05:02] Kelsey: Okay. The Easter eggs. Because I do think that some authors are starting to do that now, where in their social media they're doing all these things that like hint at Sure. The upcoming releases or what have you. Yeah. I just think it's just a. I don't know. It's really popular right now and people really love it and I think it really grows.

[00:05:20] Kelsey: Yeah, that was kind of fun. Your fandom. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, it was just funny to see her talk about like the different names of the AAR series mm-hmm. Where Sil Silver Flames mm-hmm. Is not, and Silver Flames or something. Right? Mm-hmm. Because a cord of thorns and roses, right. The first three in the series were named that way.

[00:05:42] Kelsey: Yeah. But then all of a sudden you get to Nesta and it's just silver flames. Mm-hmm. And so book huddle was like, and so I think it's gonna be similar to that, where it's , not gonna happen and like, okay. Oh my 

[00:05:53] Amanda: God. 

[00:05:55] Kelsey: But yeah, she had some . True predictions of the title of the book. And I [00:06:00] was like, dang, where are you coming from?

[00:06:01] Kelsey: Like, with this, what do you 

[00:06:02] Amanda: mean? 

[00:06:03] Kelsey: So she's predicting what Book six is gonna but how 

[00:06:06] Amanda: do you know the predictions were accurate if the book term? No you 

[00:06:09] Kelsey: don't. 

[00:06:09] Amanda: Oh, I thought you said she's just like taking true predictions information. 

[00:06:12] Kelsey: Yeah, it's her predictions. Like, oh, I think you 

[00:06:14] Amanda: said true predictions.

[00:06:15] Amanda: And I was like, how are the predictions true? Or like 

[00:06:18] Kelsey: predictions where it's based on some information she's gathered throughout her reading. Gotcha. And I was like, dang, that's intense. I thought it was funny. Yeah, 

[00:06:28] Amanda: it'll be interesting. I, I am assuming like most people that this is the next book is gonna be about Elaine.

[00:06:34] Amanda: 'cause I don't, yeah, I, yeah, I don't see how it wouldn't be. Yeah. But you know, she could do something wild and surprise us all. But. It's clear, and we'll get to this in the discussion that this book, it was so, so, so blatantly obvious that Sarah J Mass was setting things up for the next book. Mm-hmm.

[00:06:55] Amanda: Like it was so exposition heavy. Yeah. You said that. But yes. Anyhow, [00:07:00] why don't you let folks know, even though I'm sure they already know why you had me. Actually, you know what, you didn't really have me read. I didn't this book, so I guess like you did this on your own, Amanda. I did this on my own. So we don't even , really need to do that little segment because I brought this upon myself.

[00:07:15] Amanda: If you listen to our last episode, A Court of Wings and Ruins, aka yes. You'll know that , 

[00:07:22] Kelsey: wait, is that right? 

[00:07:25] Amanda: You'll know that I really enjoyed that book and then ultimately, you know, really enjoyed. This series. And so by that point I was like, yes, I want to keep reading this series. Yeah.

[00:07:37] Amanda: Kelsey was for sure no longer , forcing me to read it at this point. No. And Kelsey, along with some other friends who have read this series, all seemed pretty convinced that I was gonna like Nesta story. Mm-hmm. Not for the SM but for like her obviously character development. Yes. And so, , I was curious.

[00:07:56] Amanda: It's , I think the longest out of the four books, 'cause I [00:08:00] didn't read the novella. Oh. It's very long. It's very long. And so I definitely wanted to wait until the summer when I had like a huge chunk of time to dive into such a long book. Mm-hmm. So that's why I read it when I read it and why I read it.

[00:08:11] Amanda: Mm-hmm. I guess you can still ask me the question though. Yes. But you, yeah. 

[00:08:16] Kelsey: So, Amanda, was this a lit it or quit it for you? Short answer. 

[00:08:21] Amanda: So keeping it concise, this book was a soft lit it for me. Okay. I ended up giving it three stars. We'll obviously dive into the why behind that. Mm-hmm. I did wanna like it more than I did based on, you know, aco, AOR and mm-hmm.

[00:08:36] Amanda: AKA math. Yeah. But I'll just, I'll say that for now. 

[00:08:39] Kelsey: All right. So I think you 

[00:08:42] Amanda: have a summary to tell us. Oh God. I have a beast of a summary. So y'all, this book is, I wanna say almost 800 pages. It's a lot. Yeah. It's really long. It's definitely not a thousand, but it's definitely not a thousand. It's not like a, what is that series?

[00:08:57] Amanda: Spark of the ever flames ever or whatever. Yeah. And worth 

[00:08:59] Kelsey: every. [00:09:00] Fucking page. So I'll have to take your 

[00:09:02] Amanda: word for that. So. Well, you're gonna hate it. 

[00:09:04] Kelsey: I know already, but I am gonna make you read it at some point, so. Well, 

[00:09:07] Amanda: thankfully the first book though isn't a thousand pages, so No, it's not smaller. That's fair.

[00:09:11] Amanda: But yeah, I just looked, this book, a Cord of Silver Flames is 757 pages, so it's a tome. So of course I'm not gonna be able to really give you a detailed summary of what goes on. I'm gonna give you an overview, I'm sure. Mm-hmm. Kelsey can obviously jump in if I'm skipping over anything that's really crucial.

[00:09:27] Amanda: And then of course, within the discussion itself, we will get into some more of the nitty gritty. So this book, as we said, is Nest a's story. And so it's, from her perspective, it picks up right after the, actually it picks up after the novella that I didn't read, which is a court of Frost in Starlight.

[00:09:44] Amanda: But essentially the gist is the war is over. Ness is pretty traumatized, deeply traumatized for multiple reasons. One of them, of course, being that she was like forcibly made into a hi fa in a previous book. Mm-hmm. And she has [00:10:00] been handling her trauma in ways that are unhealthy, mainly through excessive drinking.

[00:10:05] Amanda: She's just kind of like been sleeping her way around Velar, where she's currently living. Mm-hmm. And is kind of also just like living in like this dinky apartment that's kind of gross and decrepit and it's just like not in a healthy space. And what she's been doing as well is she's been using Farrah's and Rean funds mm-hmm.

[00:10:26] Amanda: To fund her lifestyle. Right? Yeah. And essentially, all of this comes to a head when, one night she goes out and just spends an exorbitant amount of their money, and they're just like, mm-hmm. We cannot allow you to do this anymore. We can't enable you anymore. So they essentially send Cassian to, you know.

[00:10:44] Amanda: Pick Nesta up at her apartment, take her over to Thea and Anne's estate so that they can have like a come to Jesus moment with her. Mm-hmm. And they basically give her an ultimatum. And that is either that she's gonna go up to the House of Wind [00:11:00] and start training with Cassian. Mm-hmm. Or they're gonna cut her off financially and Yeah.

[00:11:05] Amanda: She's gonna be just left on her own. So Nessa, of course, is very stubborn, very independent. This doesn't go down well. But ultimately she concedes and is taken to the House of Win by Cassian. And honestly, the first part of the book is really about her getting into a routine in the house. So a couple of things happen.

[00:11:28] Amanda: One is she initially resists training with Cassian 'cause he takes her up to the mountains, the Elyan Mountains to train with the Elyan warriors. Mm-hmm. Who are, you know. Basically giant Batman, right? They've got the wings and whatever. Batman, very, very strong. And it's, you know, passing for example is Ian Israel is Ian.

[00:11:47] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And she refuses, she refuses to train with him. She just kind of sits her butt on the ground and crosses her arms and just sits there for hours. Mm-hmm. And so like that doesn't go well. And ultimately what happens is [00:12:00] Cassian realizes that the reason she doesn't wanna train isn't just because she's being stubborn.

[00:12:04] Amanda: It's because she doesn't wanna train in front of the men and look stupid. Mm-hmm. So he realizes that if he trains her one-on-one in the privacy of their own home, right in the house of Wind he'll have a better chance of getting her on board, which is in fact what happens. Mm-hmm. At the same time which is, you know, one of my favorite parts of the story Nesta starts to develop this really cute.

[00:12:23] Amanda: Relationship with the house itself. Mm-hmm. That the house is sentient. Mm-hmm. And so we see the house actually helping Nesta on her healing journey and it providing her with like the resources and kind of comfort she needs to feel safe and at ease and able to process everything that's happened to her and happened to her family.

[00:12:41] Amanda: So that's also happening. The other thing that's happening at the same time is she has been sent to work in the library that's in the basement of the house. Mm-hmm. And the really important thing to know about this library is that the women who work in this library are all women that have been rescued by, you know, by by Reese Sand and his band of Mary men to [00:13:00] his crew and his crew, right.

[00:13:01] Amanda: Because there's Ameren and more who are not men, but his, his crew who have been rescuing these women who have been the victims of war and rape and pillage. And they have been brought to this. Sanctuary of a space to heal and to work. So she while she's working there, befriends a young woman who, his name is Gwen, has a really traumatic past, and they start to become friends, which is really a really big deal because Nesta does not have friends like Dea, Nesta does not do friends.

[00:13:32] Amanda: So this is a really big step in her growth for her to start forming meaningful friendships, especially with other women. And that was true before and after her faith life. Exactly. Mm-hmm. So like even when she was human, she was not, she didn't have friends. Right. So she again, forms this friendship. She also, at the same time, has started to form a friendship with an elyan woman named Emory, who she met while she was up in the Elyan Mountains.

[00:13:55] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And they also become fast friends. As she's working in the [00:14:00] library, as she's working with Gwen, they discovered that there was a group of female warriors called Valkyrie, who have years, years, years ago. They were all kind of, homo said extinguished, but they were all killed. Yes. But they kind of uncovered their legend.

[00:14:15] Amanda: They uncover their training methods and they essentially decide to resurrect the Valkyries once again. Mm-hmm. Become like the new Valkyries. And so essentially Nesta gets Emory and Gwen and eventually other women from the library to become part of this training program. Essentially that Cassian and then Asrael start to run to help to empower these women and give them ability, the ability to fight and protect themselves.

[00:14:43] Amanda: 'cause all of them have been victims again, of like sexual assault, et cetera. So it's a really powerful moving thing. As all of this is happening, there is a bigger issue, a bigger conflict that is brewing and that is that there seems to be something going on with the human queens [00:15:00] and they seem to be up to no good one in particular.

[00:15:03] Amanda: And I'm probably gonna mispronounce your name 'cause again, I didn't listen to the audiobook. I don't know if it's Bri Allen or Bri Ellen. I don't know how to say that. I don't know if you know Kelsey, 

[00:15:11] Kelsey: Bri Allen, I think. 

[00:15:12] Amanda: Okay. So Bri Allen, she is the queen who in one of the previous books, wanted to get thrown into the cauldron along with Elaine and Nesta to become youthful forever.

[00:15:23] Amanda: And instead mm-hmm. Because she went into the cauldron after Nesta, who basically took something from the cauldron and really upset it. The cauldron turned Brion into like this ha old hag. Like a crone for forever. Mm-hmm. Right. Or, yeah. So she's, she's really bitter. Obviously wants to take revenge specifically on Nesta and in general is just like pissed off.

[00:15:45] Amanda: Yeah. So she has made it her quest to find these three items that are part of something called the dread trove. And it's the harp, the mask, and the crown. Brion already has the crown. And the crown is something that can be used to [00:16:00] basically when you have it on, when you're wearing it and you're in close proximity to others, you can basically influence them and make them do things right that they don't wanna do.

[00:16:09] Amanda: So it's yeah, kind of like, I don't know, telepathy or, yeah. Basically you're influencing people's minds. Mm-hmm. So that's happening. At the same time, Aris, who is from the Autumn Court mm-hmm. His father Baron is colluding with this. This queen, this human queen got it to mm-hmm. Collect these items and in some ways restart the war that they just ended a few books ago.

[00:16:35] Amanda: Right. Yeah. And so all of this is brewing in the background, and so of course Resand and his crew are gonna be taking steps to address this. Yeah. Because Nesta and Elaine have a particular connection to the cauldron because they're cauldron made, they are relied upon to help the crew find the two remaining I items, which is the mask and [00:17:00] the harp.

[00:17:01] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And ultimately, Nesta is the one who kind of takes the lead in doing this. Mm-hmm. And I won't get too much into the details, but essentially there's like two quests that then happen. One of them involves going to the prison, which we visited in previous books. Mm-hmm. So her and Cassie go to the prison.

[00:17:19] Amanda: They end up encountering this really bad dude called Lantus, but long story short, after a conflict fight, battle, et cetera, she gets the harp and then is able to use the harp to basically teleport them out of there. Hmm. And then she also goes on another quest to get the mask, and she nearly dies. She has an encounter with this really creepy creature that lives under the water.

[00:17:40] Amanda: I don't remember the name of that particular creature. Mm-hmm. But she's also successful in getting the mask. So now they have the two out of the three items. Mm-hmm. Long story short, basically Nesta, Emery and Gwen ultimately get kidnapped by, we find the thought later that it's Bri [00:18:00] Allen and, and her, her forces mm-hmm.

[00:18:02] Amanda: Kidnap them, and she basically takes them to the blood. Right now the blood right, is like this ritual survival test that every erian has to pass in order to become an erian warrior. Mm-hmm. And women have never been allowed to do this.

[00:18:19] Amanda: And it's, it's brutal. Basically, you're killing your way to the finish line. Mm-hmm. And so they find themselves in the survival test in the mountains. Normally, there's no weapon supposed to be allowed in this battle, but because Brion is behind this, she breaks the rules and there are weapons. So, Nesta, Emery and Gwen end up having to band together.

[00:18:41] Amanda: To survive. Surprise, surprise. They do. And they are essentially yeah, able to make it out of the blood ritual. And there's a moment where I think, I'm trying to remember now specifically, but there's, there is a, like a conflict, a fight that ensues on the [00:19:00] mountain pass, right?

[00:19:01] Amanda: Mm-hmm. At this particular blood right passage, ritual thing. And needless to say, they're successful, . Cassie and Nest, et cetera, they're successful. They're able to destroy Bri Allen and are able to, to get out of there, essentially. Mm-hmm. One of the things that I did not mention that is a really important part of the story because it, it is part of the conclusion is that during this book, favorite is pregnant.

[00:19:27] Amanda: The issue is that FA got pregnant while she was in Allion form because fa can Shapeshift and because of that, the baby that is growing inside of , her womb has wings. And she is not actually an all larian woman, and her body is not built to push out a baby with wings. Mm-hmm. And so they're basically like, well, FAA is gonna die if she gives birth to, to this child, and maybe the child will as well.

[00:19:50] Amanda: So Resand throughout the entire novel has been freaking out and like mm-hmm what am I gonna do? Like I can't lose them. And so we have this really beautiful [00:20:00] moment at the end where Nesta uses kind of the remainder of her cauldron born power to save Theara. 'Cause she's, you know, in the midst of childbirth is basically about to die.

[00:20:13] Amanda: Or she, I think she actually technically does die. And Theara is able to again, kind of bring her and her baby back to life and. There's a happy ending. And at this point as well Nessa and Cassian's relationship, which has been kind of on and off again throughout this novel. Mm-hmm. Lots of ups and downs, highs and lows.

[00:20:31] Amanda: They also end in a committed relationship. They, declare that they're, each other's mates and their in the process of planning their mating ceremony. So there's also a happy ending for them. And the, the band of women, the Valkyrie Yes. Is now like, fully established. There's quite a few women who are part of this.

[00:20:48] Amanda: And so, the assumption is moving forward that they're probably gonna play a key role in whatever this next book is. So, mm-hmm. That's my best attempt at summarizing this book. You did a great job. [00:21:00]

[00:21:00] Kelsey: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how your brain works like that. 'cause I can, I will be like, oh and, and then this happened and then this happened and I was, was like, wait.

[00:21:10] Kelsey: And then thinking back about it, 

[00:21:12] Amanda: you just do a good job in that way. Thank you. I think what I do is I kind of skim through a summary to like refresh my memory. Yeah. Yeah. And then once I have the basic bones of the plot uhhuh, then I can, I can remember enough to fill in the rest, I think. But thank you. I appreciate it.

[00:21:26] Amanda: You also 

[00:21:27] Kelsey: did not mention all of the smart 

[00:21:30] Amanda: Well 'cause we're gonna talk about that in the discussion, but Of course. Oh sure. But of course 'cause of course I have things to say about that and a quote because I always have quotes. 

[00:21:39] Kelsey: But yeah. So overall though, like were people right about you enjoying Nesta story and Nesta as a character?

[00:21:49] Kelsey: Yes. Okay. Absolutely. I feel 

[00:21:52] Amanda: like everyone who recommended this book to me. Knows me well enough and like what I like about characters in [00:22:00] particular mm-hmm. To like nail this one. So like, you were right, my friend Anna. Hello Anna was also right. And I think the reason that I liked it is because, as y'all know, I love messy, complicated characters.

[00:22:10] Amanda: Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. And Ness is like the epitome of a chaotic character. Yes. You know, the girls got a lot going on. She's not necessarily always making the , best choices. Mm-hmm. But because she's real, because, because she's real, she's human. Well, she's fake, but she, she was human. Right? Yeah. And I think that's what I liked about it.

[00:22:28] Amanda: And I like the fact that sometimes when authors write messy characters or have people like making these choices mm-hmm. The rationale behind it isn't always clear or it feels really contrived. And so I'm like, yeah, this seems like a really complex, messy character, but I'm not fully buying into because the reasons for the behavior are, are lacking, right?

[00:22:47] Amanda: Mm-hmm. Or mm-hmm. I don't know. I'm not relating to them. Yeah. And. One of the things that Nesta is able to identify for, like, the reason why she is so kind of prickly [00:23:00] and antagonistic is that she is dealing with a huge amount of , shame because she feels like she has failed so many people mm-hmm.

[00:23:09] Amanda: And isn't worthy of love and affection and redemption, forgiveness. And I thought that was incredibly moving and compelling. So, 

[00:23:19] Kelsey: yeah. And you know, there's a mixture of things that help bring her kind of to the light, right? Yes. It's her relationship with Cassian. 

[00:23:25] Amanda: Yeah. 

[00:23:25] Kelsey: But also it's this well yeah.

[00:23:28] Kelsey: Relationship to herself. Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:30] Amanda: But 

[00:23:30] Kelsey: to me, more importantly, the, the theme of the book is around sisterhood. Yes. And developing those relationships and Yeah. Building upon them. And so I really enjoyed that aspect of 

[00:23:43] Amanda: absolutely 

[00:23:44] Kelsey: uplifting the other women around her and, 

[00:23:47] Amanda: mm-hmm. 

[00:23:48] Kelsey: At the same time herself.

[00:23:49] Amanda: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because I think sisterhood found sisterhood chosen sisterhood is so important. Mm-hmm. And yes, she has her biological sisters, [00:24:00] but I like that it was her chosen sisters that helped to teach her how to be a good sister to her biological sisters. Mm-hmm. Like, yeah, because sometimes it's hard with families.

[00:24:10] Amanda: You got a lot of history. Totally. You got a lot of baggage. So much baggage. And sometimes you have to learn like the skills and the tools that you need to be a better person for your, your actual family or biological family. Mm-hmm. You have to learn those skills , in a setting that feels safer. And maybe there's some helpful distance there.

[00:24:30] Amanda: And so it's really beautiful to see her connections build with Gwen and Emery and then for her to take what she's learning from that space and those friendships and apply it to Yeah. Her actual sisters. Right. I think. For me personally. 'cause again, I grew up in a house full of men and, you know, six brothers, my dad.

[00:24:47] Amanda: So I always have like this interest and fascination with sisterhood and female friendships. 'cause that's something, yeah, especially when I was younger, I really struggled with connecting with women. Mm-hmm. And, and understanding them and like, what's the point of female friendship. Mm-hmm. I, [00:25:00] I really didn't get it.

[00:25:01] Amanda: And even when I moved to college and was living in a, a space with all women for the first time in my life, right. In a female dorm it took a lot of adjusting too. And so I always love to see these stories and be reminded like, yeah, female friendships are so important. They're so powerful, they're so transformative.

[00:25:18] Amanda: And this book really celebrates that really well. 

[00:25:22] Kelsey: Definitely does. Yeah. 

[00:25:24] Amanda: It was really beautiful.

[00:25:24] Kelsey: Was there anything else that you really loved or liked about the book? 

[00:25:29] Amanda: That's a good question. I mean, I mean, the main things were what we said. I really liked Nest arc and I really loved the female friendships.

[00:25:36] Amanda: And as a part of that,, they're coming together specifically as this band of fighting female warriors. Like there was really badass. Yeah. And, and it was cool because like they weren't becoming like these kick-ass warriors just to be like, oh, like, we're so cool. For a lot of these women, they had been violated in so many horrible ways by men.

[00:25:56] Amanda: Right. Taking out their anger and rage and, and violence on them. [00:26:00] Right. And so having them become Valkyrie as a way of like, healing and like, oh, absolutely. Empowerment made it much more meaningful than if it was just like, oh, we're just gonna be like, you know, like these superpowered mm-hmm. Like women just because so I liked again that there was like depth to these choices that Sarah J Mass was making.

[00:26:22] Amanda: And it wasn't just like, oh, you know, it'd be really cool if we had like some daries in this story. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So I think those would be the main things. Oh, oh, and of course I already mentioned this in. Cassian and all the smut. God, no. I loved the house, like the relationship with the house.

[00:26:38] Amanda: Oh yeah. It kind of gave me like, which kind of tracks, because the first book in this series is like Beauty and the Beast, but it reminded me of Beauty and the Beast. Obviously the Castle isn't sentient, but all of the little characters, you know, in the Disney version are sentient and they're all looking out for Bell and making sure she's comfortable and cared for.

[00:26:56] Amanda: And that's what it reminded me of. And I just thought it was the cutest [00:27:00] thing and just such a nice touch and heartwarming and. Going off of that, and I wrote it down in my notes. Tell us, like, so during the winter solstice, you know, which is a really big deal in this world. Mm-hmm. And the celebration, like gift giving, et cetera.

[00:27:17] Amanda: The house gives Nesta a present a gift. Mm-hmm. And the gift is that the house shares with Nesta that it also like her is broken and has darkness in it. Oh yeah. Just like she does. And , it's just like, whoa. I think I might have cried honestly, because , it wasn't like the house or, or the author Sarah Demas was like, you know what the, the solution for being a dark hurting person is to just sweep out all the darkness and let there be light.

[00:27:45] Amanda: It's like, no, mm-hmm. When you are hurt, when you are traumatized, when you have baggage, those things. A lot of times don't ever fully go away. And they linger with us. And we are making choices on a daily basis on how we navigate those spaces and mm-hmm. How we [00:28:00] live into or don't live into that darkness.

[00:28:01] Amanda: Right. It's a choice. Yeah. And so again, I felt like it was a very thoughtful handling of this topic. Mm-hmm. And it didn't feel dismissive or superficial or shallow. It's like if you go through No, not at all. Really tough shit. Like you don't just, it's not like an overnight transformation. Like, whoa, whoa.

[00:28:20] Amanda: Like everything's good. And I'm the happiest person ever and I never struggle and I never fall back in old habits or have doubts or whatever. Right. So I also really appreciated that. Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:31] Kelsey: About 

[00:28:31] Amanda: this book definitely 

[00:28:32] Kelsey: has depth, like, oh my god, yes. You know, all of the criticism that Sarah J.

[00:28:38] Kelsey: Moss gets, I think like she is a very talented writer. Oh, for sure. There's no question. And yeah, there's no question there because we get stories like this. Mm-hmm. We're just, yeah. There the depth is there. The reality is there. 

[00:28:51] Amanda: Yeah. And, 

[00:28:52] Kelsey: Not just to the main character either. It's like all of the aspects of the book mm-hmm.

[00:28:58] Kelsey: Are [00:29:00] very intentional. 

[00:29:01] Amanda: Yes. 

[00:29:01] Kelsey: And it can, again, like we were talking at the beginning of the episode, it can lead you to these predictions of the world, right? Mm-hmm. And of next books, and who it's gonna be about and who's gonna be shipped together and mm-hmm. All these things. I was at a PTA meeting last night and we did a game around using slang words that the kids are using right now.

[00:29:23] Kelsey: And ship was one of them. It was just really funny. It was hilarious. 

[00:29:27] Amanda: Oh, are they using that word now? 'cause that one's been around for a minute. Oh yeah. It's so interesting. Oh, it's ha okay. It's having its moment again. All right. People are trying 

[00:29:34] Kelsey: to ship me with blah, blah, blah. Yeah. God, we shipped him with her.

[00:29:40] Kelsey: Yeah, no, it's it's definitely a thing. 

[00:29:43] Amanda: Well it is so funny that you specifically used that word, because I have my notes pulled up, right. 'cause I obviously take notes when I'm reading and I literally have a note that says, and I quote Emory and more totally shipping them. Oh, 

[00:29:59] Kelsey: yes, yes, [00:30:00] yes. I am hopeful for that.

[00:30:03] Kelsey: Yes. But also Gwen, right? Uhhuh, she was. Can you remind me? 'cause it's been a little while. Yeah, yeah. Since I've read this book. Mm-hmm. But she's like this really kind like gentle person, right? Yes. Mm-hmm. Is that right? Okay. Is there anything else to add, like about her personality and things? 

[00:30:19] Amanda: I mean she is kind of gentle, but she's also a bit precocious.

[00:30:23] Amanda: Like out of all of the women in the library, she's the one who's like the most chatty. She's the one who like struck of a friendship with with Nesta. She likes to, you know, sing when she's flitting around the library. So she definitely is much more precocious and lively Yeah. Than the rest of the women.

[00:30:37] Amanda: Okay. 

[00:30:37] Kelsey: Yeah. Yeah. There are theories. Mm-hmm. Because the next book we, we believe is about Elaine Uhhuh because we got Ernesto's book, right. Uhhuh I what you're gonna say. So the next book be about Elaine Uhhuh. And there are some really intense theories out there, Uhhuh, but I think one of the theories, and I don't know if you've heard this before, is what was her name?

[00:30:56] Kelsey: Gwen. Gwen. And as Israel. [00:31:00] Yes, but also people say even Lucian, I think because there's this like weird thing happening. Oh, okay. You know how, here I have to tell you one of these theories I saw and I mean, oh boy, we'll have to link the person whose theory this is because I don't remember. She's popular on TikTok.

[00:31:16] Kelsey: Okay. But she says, and it blew my mind when she was talking about this, I was like, whoa, really? You know how Elaine's drawer is painted with flowers? Yes. And then Nessa was flames, Uhhuh and then faa hers was the stars the star. Mm-hmm. Night sky. The night sky. Yeah. And so, going back to Elaine's flowers.

[00:31:40] Kelsey: People really think or have this idea that she is going to be actual mates with Tamlin. Oh, we've talked about this. Yes. And so she like, yeah, she broke it down and was like, and here's why. Here's why it, right. Wow. And she was the drawer for one. Yeah. Because yeah. That does belong and makes [00:32:00] sense for the spring court.

[00:32:01] Kelsey: Sure. And then when they were in , the cauldron yes. When they were thrown into the cauldron. Yeah. I'm the king of Hi Uhhuh. Yes. There's a theory out there that Lucian and Tamlin. Uhhuh switched. Bodies or like whatever, like switched. I don't know. Tamlin, can make himself look like, like a shapeshifter?

[00:32:22] Kelsey: Yeah. Yeah. Like he can, and so like, they were switched or something and so what's his name? Lucian said, Uhhuh, you're my mate. Uhhuh. And so people think that it was actually Tamlin in that moment. Okay. 

[00:32:36] Amanda: No, wait. That's a really big 

[00:32:38] Kelsey: stretch because it's a stretch. Okay. But then there were some other details she referenced that that made sense for it or something.

[00:32:47] Kelsey: I can't remember. But then, okay. And then, okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, the question is like Lucian though was the one that went to the night core and like did all the things, but then he did leave and was gone for a while. 

[00:32:59] Amanda: But I think he [00:33:00] left because he couldn't be there because he had these strong feelings for his mate and can't act on them.

[00:33:05] Kelsey: And so anyway, people feel like Tamlin deserves a redemption story and I'm not opposed to that. And they think that he's gonna be with Elaine. 

[00:33:17] Amanda: Well, so here's the thing though, right? If we're gonna follow this train of thought. Yeah. So there's currently Oh, of three main men who are unattached. Yeah.

[00:33:28] Amanda: They're Lucian. Lucian, sorry. Tamlin and Riel, right? Yes. And so, and then we have now in the mix, we have. Gwen, right? Yes. We have Emery. Emery, we have Elaine. Elaine. And yeah, obviously if, if Emery and More are gonna be a couple, Emory kind of gets taken out of that equation, right? So then it's like, okay. Yeah.

[00:33:49] Amanda: What is the deal with Elaine and Gwen? I honestly, when I was reading the book, 'cause it, there were multiple moments in the book, and again, Sarah J Mass doesn't just throw things in willy nilly. I [00:34:00] think she's very intentional. No. Yeah, absolutely. And there are multiple moments where as Israel and Gwyn are like having these moments, right?

[00:34:06] Amanda: Whether it's like a glance or a look or he's like going outta his way to make sure she's fine or whatever. And so I'm like, is she laying the groundwork for relationship there? But at the same time, there were also an equal number of moments of him doing that with Elaine. Mm-hmm. And them sharing glances at the table and like all of this stuff.

[00:34:22] Amanda: Yeah. So I am really confused and I wonder if she's doing that on purpose to create a lot of ambiguity around that, but Right. I do think Israel's gonna end up with either Gwenna or Elaine. That is my prediction. I don't know for sure which one. Yeah. I think it would be a much better twist if she did end up with Tamlin.

[00:34:42] Amanda: 'cause Yeah, that's pretty wild. It would be wild. 

[00:34:46] Kelsey: But then, 'cause if you think about it, like those drawers mean something. They're not just like willy-nilly. And it is confusing for Elaine because she loves to plant and garden. Right? Yeah. And so there's, I [00:35:00] don't know, but that could be like, that could be it.

[00:35:02] Kelsey: Like that could be all that it means. No, I don't think so. Because what you're saying is like Serge Moss is very intentional. 

[00:35:09] Amanda: Yeah. About 

[00:35:10] Kelsey: what she puts in her books. I don't think it's so, 

[00:35:14] Amanda: but here's the thing though, because like, so yes, bearers had a night sky, which meant that she ended up with a night court.

[00:35:19] Amanda: Yes. The, the flames resand goodness. Yeah. But flames don't have anything to do with Cassie. And it had to do with Nesta being like, sure. Those were her powers. Right. So I think it could just be like, because the other thing too, yes. Elaine's power from the cauldron is that she can kind of see the future, but I wonder if she might have another aspect to her abilities that does involve, I don't know, growing things or, or something.

[00:35:44] Amanda: Right. Life like earth force, mother nature, whatever. Mm-hmm. That might come into play in the next, I'm assuming there will be an ensuing war battle of some kind in the next book. Yeah. Because of the groundwork that was laid. So maybe that's what it connects to. Could be. Yeah. But so many theories.

[00:35:59] Amanda: There are [00:36:00] so many theories. It's fun. It is fun to like, yeah. Think about what it could be. Especially like, 'cause we're in this waiting moment period, you know? Um mm-hmm. It is weird for me to be in a place where I am like a waiting next book. Like do I need to pre-order? What? Like, am I gonna be that person?

[00:36:18] Amanda: Like, oh my God, 

[00:36:20] Kelsey: probably. 

[00:36:21] Amanda: But 

[00:36:21] Kelsey: also like the idea of the whole thing. 'Cause Israel, I wanna go back to this idea of like, so Lucian, right? Yeah. Said that he is Elaine's mate. 

[00:36:32] Amanda: Yes. 

[00:36:33] Kelsey: And then I remember Elaine in one of the scenes, she was like, I can hear your heartbeat. Right. And I, I, I can't remember if that was just because of her powers or something, or because Here, who's heartbeat?

[00:36:46] Kelsey: Ra Lucian El. Oh, remember when? Oh, okay. Lucian met her. This was an though, I think not silver flames. And so the, was that just her new [00:37:00] abilities as Faye, or was that because they were mated? I can't think. It might have just been Oh, no, I remember. I know what you're 

[00:37:06] Amanda: talking about. Mm-hmm. I think it could be, attributed to either, and I think she left it vague on purpose.

[00:37:10] Amanda: Like it could be like, oh, her hearing's increased 'cause she's fa now. Right. Or it's like, oh, there's a connection. 

[00:37:14] Kelsey: Yeah. And then Lucian is actually of Autumn Court. Yes. No, sorry. Summer court, right? No, Lucian's Autumn court. No, his fa his real father. Oh, his real father. Yes. Is, is he Helion, right? Yeah.

[00:37:27] Kelsey: Which is summer court, right? Yeah, you're right. Yeah. I always, yeah, you're right. He has ties to Autumn Court, but his legacy right. Will end up being summer court. Summer court, and then of course Tamlin is in spring. Mm-hmm. And then you have Gwen and then Riel. Mm-hmm. And so people are really wanting it to either be Lucian or Riel.

[00:37:46] Kelsey: And is it gonna be a triangle? What's gonna happen 

[00:37:49] Amanda: for, for Gwen? You mean like Gwen Lucian and Oh, Elaine Lucian and or 

[00:37:52] Kelsey: Elaine. 

[00:37:53] Amanda: Yeah. Elaine 

[00:37:54] Kelsey: Luc and Israel. But I wonder if it's gonna be more of along the lines of what you are saying with Gwen. 

[00:37:58] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And 

[00:37:59] Kelsey: [00:38:00] Israel. Mm-hmm. And Lucian and, yeah. But I just, I 

[00:38:03] Amanda: feel like there's gonna be another love triangle because fantasy writers freaking love.

[00:38:08] Amanda: Where 

[00:38:08] Kelsey: has 

[00:38:08] Amanda: triangles been? Love triangle, aar. I guess Tamlin and, I mean, yeah, Tamlin and res sanded Farrah. Like that's, yeah, I guess literally that was like the catalyst for so much of this. Are you kidding? Fair. Fair. And then we have another love triangle. Well, I mean, it's not super, super explicit, but I think there's a love triangle between Lucian as real and Elaine because there is that tension there that's kind of simmering and Yes.

[00:38:35] Amanda: So yeah, I think, you know, romantic authors really love their, their love triangles. I find them kind of annoying sometimes, honestly. But I do wanna talk a little bit about the things that I didn't like. Yep. 'Cause we did start off on the positives, and I think one of the things which I started to mention I think a bit in the summary is that.

[00:38:54] Amanda: And this is not necessarily a bad thing because I do like that this book was more of a deep [00:39:00] dive into NE's character and wasn't necessarily a super, super plot driven book compared to some of the previous books. Mm-hmm. But it was slow. And I literally wrote in my notes like nothing much has happened so far in the first half.

[00:39:15] Amanda: Lots of training and brooding and falling down the stairs. And it did feel very repetitive in the first half. Right. Okay. Like Nessa was kind of going through these same cycles and behaviors. Mm-hmm. And I was like, we could have maybe done this twice, not like four or five times. Yeah.

[00:39:32] Amanda: So that was a bit frustrating. And then I think the other thing about the structure of this book that I understand why Sarah J Mass did it. I know that this book works as part of a series and is not a standalone. 

[00:39:44] Kelsey: Right. But it 

[00:39:45] Amanda: was kind of annoying that she's giving us so much information and so much kind of exposition and laying the groundwork for what will be, I'm assuming, a future conflict with , the queens and, and what is his name?

[00:39:57] Amanda: Coast Kai Coast. Chi che, [00:40:00] whatever,

[00:40:03] Amanda: like, who, for those of you who didn't read the book, he's basically like a, a, a, he's one of the death Gods writer or I can't remember. Yeah, he's, he's got a lot of powers. The point is, it's like she's giving us all of this information that actually doesn't really connect to how this book plays out.

[00:40:20] Amanda: It's kind of background noise, honestly. Because the actual arc of this story is Nesta her redemption ark, her training, her and her friends getting stuck at the blood ritual. Blood, right? And, and then that being resolved, like all of that other stuff which we learn about doesn't, isn't really gonna come into fruition.

[00:40:38] Amanda: Right. Until like the next book. And again, as someone who doesn't read series a lot, it's kind of a frustrating experience. 'cause I'm like, oh, you're giving me all of this information about like this impending war impending conflict and then you're not delivering on it yet. 

[00:40:51] Kelsey: Yeah. 

[00:40:51] Amanda: So. I'm sure for folks like you who read series a lot, it probably wasn't a big deal, but for me it was really frustrating.

[00:40:58] Kelsey: Something to note. Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:59] Amanda: And then the [00:41:00] other thing, of course, that I could not stand about this book so much fucking smut, like so much Yes. Like I, I don't like skimming in books in general 'cause it feels like cheating to me and I don't know, I'm just too type A. But I had, I had to, I had to skim 'cause I was like, I, I just cannot, I cannot.

[00:41:18] Amanda: There was Amanda, 

[00:41:20] Kelsey: it was so important to the plot. It was 

[00:41:22] Amanda: so not important to the plot like that was it because like you could already get a sense of the tension between Cassie and ESA and like where their struggles were and how they're both kind of these broken individuals that really need to heal and are doing some of their healing together and need to do some of their healing apart.

[00:41:40] Amanda: Yes. But there was this one quote. Yes. Tell me that I had to include, and this is obviously nesta, you know, from Nesta's kind of perspective, and this is the quote quote, every time she met his stare or got within a few feet of him, it roared at her to strip off her [00:42:00] clothes and offer herself to him, unquote.

[00:42:02] Amanda: And I was like, OMG, you have got to be f*cking kidding me. This is so stupid. I hate everything about this. Please stop writing smut Like, oh, that is hilarious. It's just, it's so cringe as the kids would say, it's so cringe. It's so cringe. Yeah. And it does nothing for me personally. I know for a lot of folks it does for me, it just gives me the ick.

[00:42:24] Amanda: But you know, like a hundred percent 

[00:42:25] Kelsey: you're very lucky because Sarah J. Moss, I have never seen that. She uses the word folds. She has not. And I, I 

[00:42:33] Amanda: appreciate 

[00:42:34] Kelsey: that. Thank you, Sarah. So 

[00:42:35] Amanda: thank you, Sarah, for not using folds, but there's a lot of other terms that she uses. She also, you know, which is common again, I think in a lot of romantic sex scenes where it's like the roaring and the growling and I'm like, what does that, I think, I dunno if I saw this on book talk or like, I dunno, yes.

[00:42:50] Amanda: Maybe it was you and I was like, it was you in one of our previous episodes. We're like, what does that sound like when someone's making these noises? Like what? [00:43:00] What does that sound like? 'cause in my head I'm like, that is not a sexy noise. Like I'm not, I'm not gonna make that noise,

[00:43:04] Kelsey: yeah.

[00:43:05] Amanda: I, these 

[00:43:05] Kelsey: Faye characters just have like really intense sex, I guess. It's like they're superpowered 

[00:43:12] Amanda: bodies and they just can't keep it under wraps. I don't know. But they're just making all these definitely can't keep it under wraps. Strange like guttural animal noises. And I'm like, there is nothing sexy about this.

[00:43:23] Amanda: Or that's the other thing they do. And I have seen somebody do this on book talk so many times in this book. They were bearing their teeth at each other and I'm like. All I could think of was like creepy vampires. I don't know, in any sense we're like, bearing your teeth at your partner looks sexy and appealing.

[00:43:40] Amanda: Yeah. Like, and so somebody was like making fun of that in one of their book talk videos and like making the faces of , what that could look like. And I'm like, there's no world in which I'm like, yep, that'll do it for me. That's it. That's the one, that's the thing. That's my my aunt get me going. Oh my God.

[00:43:57] Amanda: But that was so funny. I did have, I did have a a [00:44:00] question for you. Oh sure. I dunno if you remember this part of the book. So there's not, there's like this whole scene slash conflict because again, casting a Nestor, just like on again, off again, back and forth, this whole book mm-hmm. And near the end of the book, one of their final conflicts is that.

[00:44:15] Amanda: Nesta doesn't like, wanna be with Cassian because she doesn't wanna be called Cassian's mate. Like, she makes this huge deal about, yes, I love you. Yes, I'd wanna be with you, but like, I can't because I, I don't wanna be called your mate. And I just, it felt really contrived and illogical. And I didn't know if you felt the same or if you even remembered that scene.

[00:44:38] Amanda: Yeah. But I was like, this is a non-issue. Like Yeah. 

[00:44:41] Kelsey: I don't know I guess it just kind of goes back to her independence. 

[00:44:45] Amanda: Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. 

[00:44:47] Kelsey: That makes sense. She's a very independent person. Yeah. And, but that's all I could connect it to. 

[00:44:52] Amanda: Okay. I think she's afraid of like fully.

[00:44:56] Amanda: Accepting her famous. Mm-hmm. For sure. And I think Sure. That's maybe [00:45:00] the, maybe like the final holdout for her Yeah. Was like not giving into this whole like, mate ritual that's part of being Fay. Mm-hmm. But it just, especially with it coming at the end of the book, I'm like, this is not a conflict that really feels like it holds any weight.

[00:45:14] Amanda: Mm-hmm. Or significance. And they have this whole falling out and, you know, he storms off and she, I'm like, this, this is stupid. Like, and, and also because there's so many other parts in the book that are really deep and meaningful and, and have that, you know, depth to it.

[00:45:27] Amanda: Mm-hmm. I was like, oh, this is dumb. It felt like Sarah was like, I have to put in one more moment of conflict, one more before the end, before they really finally come together. And I thought that was really dumb. Yeah. I mean, maybe it's very possible that happened. 

[00:45:41] Kelsey: Yeah. But yeah, I wanted to mention yes, the 10,000 steps.

[00:45:48] Kelsey: Okay. Yes. Part of the book. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I don't know if you've ever seen this, it's like a connection to social media. Okay. But women going to the stair stepper at the gym and doing the [00:46:00] 10,000, the nesta challenge basically. Oh, that's okay. Yeah. I haven't heard of this or seen this, but that tracks Yeah.

[00:46:05] Kelsey: That must be intense. 

[00:46:08] Amanda: I'm, I love using the StairMaster in my gym and I'm going to make that a goal Now. I like, I need, I should have kept whatever I did the last time because I usually just do 20 minutes. I'm like, yeah. I wonder how many steps. 

[00:46:19] Kelsey: I'm curious. 

[00:46:19] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do hiking a lot and I feel like the elevation gain that I do is probably similar to 10,000 steps.

[00:46:26] Amanda: Yeah. But I didn't know that was a thing. It, I like that. I like that a lot. Put it on our social media page. Yeah. Yeah. If I do it, I for sure will. Yeah. I feel like there was like two more things that I am looking at my little list of notes. One is that I talked about this with with Anna actually.

[00:46:43] Amanda: Mm-hmm. I didn't like this about the book and I'm curious what you thought if you remembered it, kill me. So, you know how authors will have like self inserts, right? So they write a character in a novel that's kind of supposed to be them, essentially. Okay. Like a fictional version of themselves so they can mm-hmm.

[00:46:57] Amanda: You know, live in the world of the story they're creating. [00:47:00] And in this book there's a scene where Nesta, Gwen and Emery have like a girl's night, right. And it was so obvious that Sarah J Mass wrote this scene for . The book girlies, because even though they're in this fictional world, they're like doing all of the things that, , a group of three human girlfriends would do if they wanted to have a read-in, right?

[00:47:24] Amanda: Oh, mm-hmm. So they all bring their books, they get together, they literally, literally make friendship bracelets, which I mean, do have a function later in the plot. But it was like, okay, they make friendship bracelets. They you know, eat lots of yummy snacks. They purify the fire. And it was clear, the whole purpose of that scene was basically to write a reader insert, to be like, Hey readers, I see you.

[00:47:47] Amanda: Like, I know this is what you do with you and your girlfriends. When you guys have these like reads and I don't know. I'm sure some people found it really cute. I just found it really cheesy and out of place. I [00:48:00] don't know. 'Cause all three of them, Nesta, Emery, and Gwen and the house itself are all obsessed with reading s Muddy Romance novels.

[00:48:07] Amanda: And I'm like, this is so stupid. This is so stupid. I don't like this at all. Yes. Is it, 

[00:48:13] Kelsey: it's okay though, Amanda, you don't No, 

[00:48:15] Amanda: I just, this was too much for me. 

[00:48:16] Kelsey: So I I can see where you're coming from with that point for sure. 

[00:48:22] Amanda: But it was just two on the nose. It was two on the nose.

[00:48:24] Amanda: Yeah. And I like, didn't like it. I hear you. 

[00:48:26] Kelsey: But again, Sarah has an audience and it is a very particular audience. And you're probably right. It's just like, hey. Gotcha. They're gonna, they're gonna love this. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And a lot of people probably did, but also I think it does show, and it is worthwhile to show the three women , in a position or in a situation that is more carefree than what they're dealing with.

[00:48:52] Kelsey: Right. Yeah. Because they're dealing with all of these hard things. Mm-hmm. And then they get to be real. [00:49:00] I, I was gonna say humans, but you know what I mean? Yes. They just get to be real with each other for one night. 

[00:49:06] Amanda: Yeah. And like that's let their hair down. That's nice. Yeah. I like, I had no, yeah, I had no problems with them doing that.

[00:49:13] Amanda: It just was so obvious mm-hmm. That she was like, yeah, taking a normal like girls' night in our world and like transposing it into this world. And I was like I dunno how I feel about that. Yeah. Yeah, 

[00:49:24] Kelsey: one other thing I wanted to mention was the ending, essentially where Faah was having the baby.

[00:49:30] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. And remind me, because I know that Nessa saves the baby, but it had to lead up to all of her training. I just can't remember what was the power that allowed her to save Faah and the baby in those moments. Well, 

[00:49:47] Amanda (2): she, like, her power is connected with death. Right. She's this kind of pseudo like death God.

[00:49:52] Amanda (2): And so she's using her power, I think, over life and death to give Farrah life. And I see she makes this [00:50:00] deal with the cauldron, essentially this power, like save them you can take back your power that I took from you.

[00:50:05] Amanda (2): Oh, Uhhuh and save them. And, and then we find it, of course that the cauldron actually lets her retain a small portion of her power, even though she was willing to give it all up. Mm-hmm. To save them. So that's kind of the gist of what happens. Got it. Okay. I'm getting that entirely right. Yeah. 

[00:50:21] Kelsey: Okay. I just wanted to be reminded of like how that all went down.

[00:50:25] Kelsey: And of course like Reese has like now a soft spot for Nesta. 

[00:50:30] Amanda: Thank you. Exactly. Which honestly is good because them and their conflict was getting annoying. I'm like, just get over it. Already be friends. Like, 

[00:50:36] Kelsey: and there yeah. There had to be a resolution there because they're gonna be each other's lives from now on.

[00:50:42] Kelsey: Exactly. So there definitely had to be some sort of solution. 

[00:50:45] Amanda: Yes, yes, yes, yes. So yeah, so like overall, I enjoyed it. I also, like there was a scene in The Blood, right? Where Nesta, Emory and Gwen take on this group of male alleles at this bridge that's in there. [00:51:00] Oh right. Mm-hmm.

[00:51:00] Amanda: And that I wrote in my notes. I was like, that seems really badass. It was well written. It showed them putting into action all of the training that we'd watched them go through over the course of this novel. Mm-hmm. And I was like, well done Sarah. That was just a really very cool action scene.

[00:51:15] Amanda: And I do enjoy those moments 'cause I'm mm-hmm. You know, huge fan of as, you know, war, conflict action movies in general. Yeah. So I really appreciated that final scene. Am I missing anything that you also wanted to talk about with this book that is like, front of mind? 

[00:51:33] Kelsey: I don't think I have anything more.

[00:51:35] Kelsey: Okay. But yeah, like, I just think in general, like people really relate well to Nesta mm-hmm. Because of the depths , within her character and she's just real and yeah. 'Cause Farrah right? Like she was always overcoming her issues and it was just a different, I don't know how you would.

[00:51:56] Kelsey: Explain that, but it was just different where it's like, clearly she's , the [00:52:00] best, right. And mm-hmm. She's gonna be high and mighty for her cause, and her people and her family and things. And Nessa wasn't like that. She wasn't just this black and white character. Right. Yeah. There were so many nuances to who she was and why she made certain choices.

[00:52:16] Kelsey: Yeah. And yeah, so I love that. And then I'm curious how that's gonna end up with Elaine, right? Like, so we had Fara. Yeah. Nesta. And then how is Elaine gonna show up? You know? And so I'm just curious. Yeah. 

[00:52:28] Amanda: Because I think I'm curious about that too, because out of the three of them, Elaine seems the most shallow, like Nesta is Yeah.

[00:52:36] Amanda: A very layered, nuanced character, as you said. Mm-hmm. And even Farrah, even if she's clearly the good sister. She's out here like, you know, risking her life, but , she was a dynamic character and had skills and, and mm-hmm. , And Elaine is just kind of.

[00:52:48] Amanda: This delicate, sweet. She likes flowers. She doesn't make a fuss like everyone protects her. So yeah, I'm like, I am curious what is there for Sarah J Mass to dive into her, like uncover for us [00:53:00] and like, she doesn't seem like she has a whole lot going on. 

[00:53:03] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:05] Amanda: And then what if 

[00:53:06] Kelsey: we get another Nesta book instead of like a, an Elaine book?

[00:53:10] Kelsey: Do you think that's possible? 

[00:53:13] Amanda: I, I could only because if the Valkyries are a huge part of this next upcoming conflict or war mm-hmm. It would be cool to experience that through Nesta since she's the one mm. Who was so key to that. Yeah. And you wouldn't really get as in depth information about that if, if Elaine is the one now telling the story and maybe mm-hmm.

[00:53:33] Amanda: In passing, mentioning what the Vel trees are up to. Mm-hmm. So I think that would actually be cool in some ways if the second book was still Nesta. But Elaine's been like overshadowed and overlooked for so long. She has, she really has. I think she does, like she does , 

[00:53:48] Kelsey: need her moment. Yeah. I'm, I actually am curious to get into, into Elaine's brain and mind.

[00:53:54] Kelsey: Yeah, I am. Because I'm like, we have no idea. Like 

[00:53:57] Amanda: nothing. No. Like literally nothing. And. [00:54:00] I'm like, ', is there anything, I mean, there's gotta be something there, but well, obviously yeah. Yeah. Curious. Well, we dunno. We dunno. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I would say, you know, overall for this book, I think I, I would recommend it, I think if you've already committed to the series and made it this far Oh, totally.

[00:54:17] Amanda: And finish like AKA war. And even if you've read Aquar of Frost and Starlight, then Yes. Like don't stop. , That's kind of silly. Mm-hmm. It's a very different book from AKA war. So, you know, I think expect a very different vibe. It is very much a character study and not this plot driven, you know, riveting, fast paced book.

[00:54:38] Amanda: It, it's not. Mm-hmm. Things do pick up in the second half and you have them kind of going on, like I said, on these quest to get these items. Mm-hmm. And things are brewing, but it is a lot of just. Nesta sitting around processing, meditating, like making friends. So I would keep that in mind depending on what kind of read reader you are, and it is a long book, so also keep that in mind.

[00:54:59] Amanda: [00:55:00] But I would recommend it still. Great. 

[00:55:02] Kelsey: Of course, I would recommend it as well, especially for those s smart lovers. 

[00:55:06] Amanda: Yeah. Oh yeah. If you love smut, you're gonna, you're gonna eat this book up. It's, there's, there's so much.

[00:55:12] Amanda: So, so gentle readers. Weird. Kelsey and I are, we're filming this in August.

[00:55:19] Amanda: Yes. This will drop at the end of September, but it is a sweltering hot day. Oh my God. Here in Seattle. 90, I think it's 90 in my apartment right now. And I can't turn on my AC 'cause we're recording this podcast. Yes. So we are actually not gonna be doing our literally the best or literally the worst for this episode.

[00:55:35] Amanda: Yes. We're just gonna keep it short. And this is also a, you know, a bonus episode as well, so we don't always do the full thing. Yeah. However, with that said, because we're not doing a literally the best or literally the. Worst, we for sure wanna hear from you. Like we for sure wanna add some more voices to this conversation.

[00:55:51] Amanda: So yes, whether you comment on this episode on Spotify or whether you hop on our socials on TikTok or Instagram and let us know we will be [00:56:00] posting our Thursday video where we ask folks to vote and chime in absolutely. Whether this book was a lit or quit it. So definitely be sure to do that 'cause yeah, there's a lot to chat about this book and especially Totally.

[00:56:11] Amanda: I wanna know theories, I wanna know your theories, everyone. Oh yes. That is fun. Yes, that's, yes. So quick recap of socials Kelsey so folks can Yes. 

[00:56:19] Kelsey: So you can find us on Instagram at Live Vibes only podcast. Mm-hmm. And TikTok and YouTube at Live Vibes Only podcast. We are super active over there. Mm-hmm.

[00:56:31] Kelsey: Come hang out with us. Yay. We'd love to see you. Yeah, just keep it going. Let us know how we're doing. Yeah. All the things. Absolutely. 

[00:56:37] Amanda: All the feedback is so, so helpful and we do listen to it and try to incorporate it as best we can. Yeah, 

[00:56:42] Kelsey: we do. We do. 

[00:56:42] Amanda: Yeah. So yeah, thanks for hanging out with us for our bonus episode.

[00:56:45] Amanda: We will, , of course be doing whenever the next book comes out. We'll, we'll do the next book. So yeah, stay tuned for that. But thanks for hanging out with us guys, and we'll see you next Monday. Bye bye. [00:57:00]