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Ep. 50: Lit It Or Quit It: The Wedding People by Allison Espach

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Join Kelsey and Amanda as they unpack 'The Wedding People,' exploring themes of depression, unexpected friendships, and hilariously messy weddings. Get ready for a heartfelt critique filled with sharp insights and unexpected laughs on the journey of rediscovering life.


00:00 Introduction and Trigger Warning

00:08 Welcome to Lit Vibes Only

00:41 Join Us on Social Media

02:48 Current Reads

07:45 Seattle's New Romance Bookstore

15:46 Summary of The Wedding People

19:18 Book Discussion

48:27 LITerally the Best or LITerally the Worst

01:12:07 Final Thoughts and Recommendations


Follow us on TikTok & Youtube @litvibesonlypodcast and on Instagram @litvibesonly_podcast. You can also email us at litvibesonlypodcast@gmail.com We'd love to hear from you!

See you on Mondays!

Ep. 50: Lit It or Quit It: The Wedding People

[00:00:00] Amanda: In order to make choices that are best for you, please note that this episode does include lengthy discussions of suicide 

[00:00:08] Kelsey: Welcome to Lit Vibes Only where we lit the shit outta books we love and hate. I'm Kelsey, the unhinged, diehard, romantic and fantasy reader. 

[00:00:21] Amanda: And I'm Amanda, the insightful, thrill seeker and historical fiction nerd. We are so glad that you've taken time out of your busy day to join us for our second commute episode, for your commute.

[00:00:35] Amanda: For our second requited, episode for the month of August. Welcome, welcome. We're so glad you're here. Hey. Not already following us on our socials, then make sure to do that at some point during your busy day. Mm-hmm. We are on Instagram at Lit Vibes Only under podcast, and we are also on TikTok and YouTube at Lit Vibes only podcast.

[00:00:56] Amanda: So make sure to do all the things, like follow, comment, [00:01:00] subscribe. If you are not already doing all the things, and most importantly, we would love it so much. If you could take a moment to rate and review us wherever. You're listening? Yes. To this podcast, whether that's Apple Podcast, whether that's Spotify or another major podcasting platform.

[00:01:19] Amanda: We are almost at our one year anniversary. We're close literally a month away. We're so, so close. We're so like less than a month. Really? Yeah. Actually less than a month. Yeah, because this'll be halfway through August. You're right. Because yeah, two weeks. 

[00:01:33] Kelsey: It was September 4th. 

[00:01:34] Amanda: Yes. And if you want to give us an anniversary gift, the best gift you can give us Yeah.

[00:01:41] Amanda: Is a rating and a quick review on either of those platforms, Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We would love it so, so much. And it really will help kind of set us up for our second year and get more folks. Mm-hmm. Eyes and ears on this podcast. So thank you in [00:02:00] advance. And then the last thing I'll say super quickly, which we don't always say every episode, but we do try to say it every now and then.

[00:02:06] Amanda: We also have an out, so. If you happen to be somebody who is not on socials, I know you're out there. Those folks are out there, that's totally fine. Definitely. But you would like to get in contact with us beyond writing reviews and, and giving us ratings. You can email us at Lit vibes only podcast@gmail.com.

[00:02:24] Amanda: It's a great place to send your feedback, give us suggestions on what we can do to improve, or books you want us to read. Or mm-hmm. Invite us to read an arc. We would love that. Yes, we would love to be ARC readers. Oh my 

[00:02:36] Kelsey: gosh. 

[00:02:36] Amanda: So yeah, send us some advanced reader copies and we would be happy to read and review those books.

[00:02:40] Amanda: So, that's it. That's my spiel. 

[00:02:44] Kelsey: Thank you, Amanda. You're so 

[00:02:46] Amanda: welcome. And, 

[00:02:48] Kelsey: Yeah. Before we get into the wedding people mm-hmm. Let's go over the things we're reading right now. 

[00:02:55] Amanda: Yeah. Awesome. 

[00:02:55] Kelsey: What we're reading. 

[00:02:57] Amanda: Well, I've been traveling. I feel [00:03:00] like that's all I've been doing this summer so far, which is fantastic.

[00:03:02] Amanda: Although I'm ready for a break. So I finished a book yesterday and started a new book yesterday. 

[00:03:08] Kelsey: Okay. 

[00:03:08] Amanda: So at the airport I finished reading a cord of Silver Flames. By Sarah j Mass Uhhuh. We will be dropping that episode in September. So anytime we have a five Monday month, we like to slip in a bonus episode.

[00:03:23] Amanda: So that'll be our bonus episode, so stay tuned for that. All of mm-hmm. Our Sarah J Mass fans and lovers because it'll, I have a lot to say. And then I started, what I'm currently reading and we'll hopefully finish this evening, is here one moment by Leanne Moriarty. So you might know her from books like Big Little Lies.

[00:03:45] Amanda: She's an Australian author and I love her style. I haven't read one of her books in a minute, and it was actually Kelsey and I were at, elliot Bay mm-hmm. A couple weeks ago before I left. Mm-hmm. To go to the East Coast [00:04:00] and saw this book on like the new releases table or like the new books table. Yeah.

[00:04:04] Amanda: So that's what I'm currently reading. It has like a four star, I think, on good reads. And the premise is essentially like there's a bunch of people on this flight from Hobart to Sydney. This woman gets up on this flight and starts making predictions about when people are gonna die and how they, they're gonna die.

[00:04:21] Amanda: And everyone's like, okay, what's going on? And then, yeah, one of her predictions comes through or comes true, sorry. And it comes through, comes true comes through, comes true, and things kind of spiral from there. So it's, it's really fascinating. We'll definitely be doing a review of that and chatting about that on our socials.

[00:04:36] Amanda: So, one more reason to follow us on our socials, but yeah, definitely that's what I am getting into right now. What about you, Kelsey? Oh, and I think too sweet. That means I should check, but I think I've officially read. I think 60 books so far. Oh, nice. This year, which is like 10 past my, my set goal of mm-hmm.

[00:04:57] Amanda: A 50. Yeah. I think a quarter of Silver Flames might have [00:05:00] been 60 for me. Yeah. So that's really exciting. What a great way to 

[00:05:04] Kelsey: get to 60. 

[00:05:05] Amanda: Yes. 

[00:05:07] Kelsey: I was just looking at my reading challenge. I have 35 books, but I have been like speeding through audio, audio books. You have been this summer or? Yeah, this summer.

[00:05:17] Kelsey: It's been insane. And the one book that I recently just finished is one that you told me about and that you and your book club are gonna be reading this month. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's, I who have known Never Known Men by Jacqueline. I can't read it. Hartman. Okay. I just finished that one yesterday and I can't, and I told Kelsey like, no spoilers, because I have not started it.

[00:05:42] Amanda: I'm really excited 

[00:05:43] Kelsey: to read it. Tell us what you know about what it's about so I don't spoil anything for you. Well know 

[00:05:48] Amanda: I know the premise, right? So there's a bunch of women who are essentially kept underground and I dunno, this a bunker. Yeah. They're not sure like why they're there, what's going on.

[00:05:55] Amanda: It's all very mysterious. And then I believe there's like a girl who's kind of the [00:06:00] catalyst I think for. Whatever happens next and mm-hmm. Again, that's like pretty much all I know from reading the book jacket. 

[00:06:07] Kelsey: Yeah, no, I, I think you're gonna enjoy it. It was very interesting and I can't wait to talk with you about it and hear what your book club, what the feedback is.

[00:06:19] Kelsey: Yeah. Two yeah, because I think it's one that you dive into a bit more than just like, oh yeah, this was a fun story. Right. So it's definitely not exactly that. So what I just started this morning is the second book and I, the Crowns of Axia, I think is what it's called. The Crowns of what?

[00:06:38] Kelsey: Axia. Oh my gosh. Who comes up with these names? These authors, Oria, it sounds like, I dunno, some sort of like prescription medication. Yeah, I think that's what it is. Okay. Because I yep. It is the Crohn's of Axia, but it's called the Ashes and the Star Curse King. And it's one of the books that you would just [00:07:00] like hate again.

[00:07:01] Kelsey: Yeah. But the second sounds like I would, it's the second one, but it's about vampires. It's so fun. Gosh, 

[00:07:08] Amanda: I feel like now anytime I think of vampires, I mean obviously I think of Twilight, but now I also think of bride and those both just leave a bad taste in my mouth. I'm just like, Ugh. Vampire.

[00:07:19] Kelsey: Sorry, Amanda. Yeah. I haven't been like much of a vampire like reader. In my adulthood. Yeah. So those are really the only books that I've had vampires in was what you were just talking about. Yeah. Right. Yeah. 

[00:07:31] Amanda: Interesting. Yeah. Okay. And this one, well, it sounds like you're having a blast. Oh yes. I'm so that's fantastic and I'm glad that you're not gonna make me read it, 

[00:07:41] Kelsey: so well, we'll see in the future.

[00:07:45] Kelsey: So the other thing that we wanted to mention is that Seattle just got its first romance themed bookstore. Mm-hmm. That opened this last Sunday in July. So we're recording in July. [00:08:00] Mm-hmm. But you'll get this episode in August, and so it'll be open, have been open about a month mm-hmm. Since we chatted about this.

[00:08:10] Kelsey: And I went Sunday and then I went yesterday because Sunday Oh. I went to the store. Yeah. And there was a giant line Oh, I saw the photo. Yeah, yeah. To get in the store. And I was like, Uhhuh, what the fuck? And we had heard from other people that they had been in the line for three hours before they got into the store.

[00:08:27] Kelsey: Oh my God. We're like, okay, we'll come back another day. Like, this is not, this is not it. That's not it. No. Yeah. So, we were able to be patient and we went Tuesday the next day that they were open. And so, the shelves were a little bare, which is like understandable and great for them. Yeah. But yeah, I it was great.

[00:08:48] Kelsey: It's called Love Struck. Love struck. 

[00:08:50] Amanda: Okay. Yeah. And which neighborhood is it in or where? It's in Lake 

[00:08:52] Kelsey: City. 

[00:08:53] Amanda: Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's like super close to you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it's great. 

[00:08:58] Kelsey: Yeah, 

[00:08:59] Amanda: that's [00:09:00] such, whoever, I don't know the name of the woman who started, although I've seen her, her Instagram Yeah.

[00:09:04] Amanda: Profile or account. Yeah. But that's such a strategic and smart move to open a romance themed bookstore. Oh yeah. One because romance and romantic is like having its moment and Absolutely. And there's zero competition. I mean, yes, there's other bookstores, but to have one that's specifically Yeah.

[00:09:21] Amanda: Focused on that genre. Mm-hmm. And it's like all pink and Yeah. Girly like such. I mean, I think she's gonna do really well. Yes, 

[00:09:32] Kelsey: I think so too.

[00:09:32] Amanda: So that's, yeah. That was just a great strategic business move on her part. 

[00:09:35] Kelsey: Yeah. Like hundreds of people went out on Sunday. Yeah, of course. And some people were like, we drove three hours to get here.

[00:09:41] Amanda: Oh my God. That's also just speaks to her, like getting the word out and like her PR beforehand. Mm-hmm. Like the buildup to that. Totally opening it. Yep. But yeah, that's really impressive. I think I would go just 'cause I'm curious even though I don't read romance. Yeah. 

[00:09:57] Kelsey: Yeah. I mean, I make you read romance sometimes.

[00:09:59] Kelsey: Yes. [00:10:00] But I guess there's another romance bookstore in Mill Creek. Oh. But it's just not as like cutesy. Cutesy, yeah. Type. Yeah. But I definitely want to go check it out and just see what's up there. And it looks bigger too. 

[00:10:15] Amanda: Where is, I don't even, where is Mill Creek? 

[00:10:17] Kelsey: North of, like North west of Bothell.

[00:10:21] Amanda: Okay, okay. Yeah. 

[00:10:22] Kelsey: It's like right up north from here. No, 

[00:10:24] Amanda: Kelsey grew up here. I clearly didn't. So I'm still just like, where are we, what are the names of these towns? What, you know where Bothell is though, right? I do know where both, that was a good place to like, help me orient. I do know Bothell. Yeah. But that's really awesome.

[00:10:37] Amanda: 'cause we do have, we've mentioned this before in a previous episode when we were featuring some local bookstores. Mm-hmm. We have like a, a STEM bookstore that focuses on like, oh yeah. Sci-fi and like tech books and manuals. And we have that here in Seattle. Yeah. But yeah, definitely not a romance bookstore.

[00:10:57] Amanda: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So how cool. 

[00:10:59] Kelsey: Yeah. [00:11:00] Yeah. It's exciting. Oh, and I was gonna say, yeah, I went Sundays and there was hundreds of people. We went Tuesday and it was way more chill, but Okay. Bookstore was still full, like, you know, and yeah. And it's good for Lake City too, if anybody's ever been in Lake City, like it's not a great part of town.

Yeah. 

[00:11:17] Kelsey: Especially on that main strip. Yeah. And so. It's great for businesses too. Yeah. Traffic. So many people were there traffic? Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause I never walk that street and I realized that there was this cute like German coffee shop that had German pretzels and things like that, like Yeah.

[00:11:33] Kelsey: For sale. And so that was great to just see more of my community, so Yeah. Loved that too. Love that. 

[00:11:39] Amanda: Yeah. Love a great neighborhood bookstore. Actually this past week I was on the East coast kind of revisiting. Mm-hmm. Where I used to live and seeing friends and family and old colleagues. And I lived in Princeton, New Jersey, and got to go to the local kind of neighborhood bookstore in Princeton, which is Labyrinth books.

[00:11:57] Amanda: Mm. And yeah, it was just like, I love the way that bookstores [00:12:00] bring people together, create community. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It gets you kind of out walking the streets so that you're also, you know. Yeah. Mm. Being patrons of other local businesses. So support your local bookstores. Yeah, 

[00:12:12] Kelsey: there's many good reasons to do so.

[00:12:15] Amanda: Yeah. Many, many, many. Awesome. Yeah. Alright. Wow. Woohoo. Let's get to the heart of the matter. Yes. I had Kelsey Reed, the Wedding People by Alice and Spac, and I personally loved this book, obviously. Mm-hmm. That's why I had Kelsey read it. But beyond that, this book has also kind of generated a lot of chatter and conversation on book talk and other spaces.

[00:12:38] Amanda: It's done really well. It's reviewed really well. It's got a great rating. Mm-hmm. And I think another reason why I picked it is because, especially for Kelsey's like romantic books, maybe not so much romance, but certainly romantic, a lot of the characters tend to be young. Right. They're like in their early twenties or late teens.

[00:12:55] Amanda: Yeah. And as you know, a woman in her thirties, it's [00:13:00] nice to read a book that has a female protagonist that. Is older and closer to mm-hmm. A point in life that's similar to mine. Oh yeah. That makes it feel more relatable. 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:12] Amanda: Versus just like, oh my gosh, this like 20 something, , magical fairy woman, you know?

[00:13:17] Amanda: It just, I don't know. Mm-hmm. I liked that and I personally this, I thought this book was really funny, which you'll, you'll hear in a moment, kind of a summary from Kelsey, what the book is about. Yeah. And so you might be shocked that I found this book funny, but I just thought it was smart and witty and incisive and just the way that the character speaks and views the world, her interactions with the other characters.

[00:13:39] Amanda: Mm-hmm. I found it hilarious and literally laughed out loud at several points throughout this book. Mm-hmm. And that can be hard to do when you're writing a book about such heavy topics, you know, like infertility and suicide and depression and infidelity. And the way that she was able to balance that without it feeling like she was like making fun of those things or making light of [00:14:00] them, which is really tricky too.

[00:14:01] Amanda: So those are all the reasons why had Kelsey read it. So Kelsey, thanks Amanda. Was this book, because Kelsey's only given me like one text about this book. Yes. Like one little brief insight into what she was thinking while she was reading it. So I really have no idea. So Kelsey, was this book a litted 

[00:14:22] Kelsey: or quit it for you?

[00:14:24] Kelsey: And I will add too, that we've gotten to a point where we like hide our good reads reviews until we do the episode, like record the episodes. Because one time I saw yours and I was like, oh, I know what you think of this book. Oh yeah. So to answer your question, Amanda Uhhuh, this was. Lid it for me. Yes.

[00:14:51] Amanda: Loved the dramatic pause. Oh my gosh. If you're watching this on YouTube. I just did like a huge thing. 

[00:14:58] Kelsey: It is rare that [00:15:00] Amanda gets a full on lid it for me. I 

[00:15:02] Amanda: know like no hesitation. It's not like a soft lit, it just like a solid lid. It, I don't know if you've ever given me one actually. Oh, have I? Just a full on solid lit it and not like hedging it at all.

[00:15:13] Kelsey: About What about Kindred? 

[00:15:16] Amanda: No. 'cause I think you had some issues with it. 

[00:15:18] Kelsey: Mm. I 

[00:15:19] Amanda: don't remember. I think it might have been a soft lit it for you because you had some issues. Well, we won't get into it. Yeah. But I'm pretty sure you It was a soft lit. Yeah. Anyhow, so this is your 

[00:15:28] Kelsey: first, 

[00:15:29] Amanda: this is my first, I think.

[00:15:30] Amanda: I feel, how does it feel? We need to go out for celebratory drinks after this. It feels great. Funny. It feels really good. And 

[00:15:38] Kelsey: we need to get together anyway. 'cause I need to give you that book. 

[00:15:40] Amanda: So, yes. And I also need to meet your new dog. Oh, yes. 

[00:15:44] Kelsey: Yeah. So 

[00:15:45] Amanda: anyhow, tangent. Tangent. So Kelsey, you were going to give us a summary Yes.

[00:15:50] Amanda: Of what on earth this book was all about. 

[00:15:52] Kelsey: Right. Are you ready? 

[00:15:54] Amanda: I'm so ready. 

[00:15:55] Kelsey: Alright. Phoebe Stone, a mid forties college professor [00:16:00] checks into the luxurious Cornwall Inn in Newport. Rhode Island alone with no luggage and a plan to end her life. Her marriage ended after her husband's affair and divorce.

[00:16:13] Kelsey: Her cat died and she experienced IVF struggles and miscarriages, and she's plagued by grief and depression. Okay, though she intended a glamorous final weekend sipping champagne, sailing and eating oysters. Phoebe is a shadow of her former self depressed and purposeless, purposeless, purposeless, uhhuh. You got it purposeless.

[00:16:36] Kelsey: When she gets to the hotel. Everyone mistakes her for a guest in the big upcoming wedding. The bride, Lila assumes Phoebe is part of the bridal party and insists she stays despite her suicidal plan. Phoebe goes along with it, since she's being treated like a person again, and for the first time in ages isn't completely invisible.

[00:16:59] Kelsey: [00:17:00] And so over the week, Phoebe becomes a secret confidant to Lila and emotional anchor. Well, not just for Lila, but mainly Lila and for other wedding guests and family members. She overhears and engages in deep, sometimes hilarious conversations late at night. Her own backstory unfolds childhood loss.

[00:17:20] Kelsey: Her mother died at a young age, and the breakdown of her marriage, career stagnation and the realization that she was never truly living. Phoebe shares unfiltered insights, supporting Lila, bonding with the groom Gary, a widower with a teenage daughter, daughter juice. Mm-hmm. Navigating tricky family dynamics and even helping others relationships thwarted by grief or tension.

[00:17:45] Kelsey: And so Lila is obsessed with perfection for her million dollar wedding, which. That is fucking insane. Initially, resents Phoebe's unexpected presidents because she was going to unlive herself. Mm-hmm. [00:18:00] And Phoebe also tentatively connects with Jim, a fellow guest in a subplot mixing humor and messy emotional romance.

[00:18:08] Kelsey: During the chaos of the weekend Lila's darker insecurity surface, and phoebe's size up of everyone's emotional baggage leads to critical turns in relationships. On the day of the wedding, Lila realizes the ceremony isn't built on genuine love with her fiance. Gary and Phoebe's presence and honesty helps Lila recognize what she truly feels leading Lila to cancel the wedding.

[00:18:36] Kelsey: Gary's daughter Juice, who has been distant and wary, begins to see Phoebe's kindness and emotional truthfulness, and in the aftermath of all of that taking place. Phoebe survives the week instead of ending her life, and she starts rediscovering purpose through storytelling, human connection and self-reflection.

[00:18:57] Kelsey: The novel closes on a note of [00:19:00] ambiguous, ambiguous, ambiguous. I could do it, but powerful hope where Phoebe doesn't have all the solutions, but she's choosing to live, to tear off the facade of being fine and embrace imper perfection. 

[00:19:18] Amanda: Okay. Yeah, that basically sums it up, I think, to give like a little bit more specific detail for folks who didn't read it.

[00:19:28] Amanda: Mm-hmm. So over the course of the novel, Phoebe develops feelings for Gary, the groom. So just like kind clarify that. So they start to have feelings for each other. She first encounters him in the hot tub one night, doesn't realize that he's the groom. Yes. And she's like, oh, like he's kind of cute.

[00:19:45] Amanda: We have great conversation, et cetera, realizes after the fact this is Lila's husband to be. Yes. So that creates 

[00:19:50] Kelsey: some tension. Creates tension. But also in that moment, she asks him. Or says, I wanna fuck you, or something along those lines. Yes, yes. And so [00:20:00] he knows her own intentions from that moment, and then need to meet the next day as Lila's fiance.

[00:20:07] Kelsey: Yes. 

[00:20:08] Amanda: So there's like that awkward moment there. I think another thing to mention too is that towards the end of the novel, I think it's like the day before the wedding actually. Mm-hmm. Her ex-husband shows up. Oh yes. He's tracked her down because she hasn't been answering her phone calls or his phone calls, I should say, and hasn't been responding to his texts.

[00:20:26] Amanda: And so he tracks her down to the Cornwall and because he's concerned and they have this weird moment where it looks like maybe they could reconcile and move forward as a couple. Mm-hmm. And like let bygones be bygones. But that ultimately isn't the case. She realizes she really does need to start fresh and create a new life and a new chapter for herself.

Mm-hmm. And 

[00:20:45] Amanda: she ends up also securing a new position for herself, a new job. In the area in Rhode Island. She's gonna be like caretaking this home and doing some like historical research, I believe. So she really does kind of have this new path opening [00:21:00] up to her with like this blossoming relationship with Gary and moving to new locations, starting a new job and like really saying goodbye to the past.

[00:21:08] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Thank you. So yeah, again, it's it's not necessarily like an action packed book. Mm-hmm. Which is why it's quick to summarize, but it is again, very much, I feel like I've been saying this so much both on TikTok recently and just in these podcast episodes, but mm-hmm. 

It's very 

[00:21:22] Amanda: much character driven.

[00:21:23] Amanda: It really is all about her relationship with herself and her relationship with the other people that she encounters. Yeah. And in her life. Yeah. So, I know this book is a lit it for you, so I'm assuming there's probably quite a bit. That you enjoyed. Mm-hmm. So I'm actually gonna flip the script and start with things that you didn't like Okay.

[00:21:41] Amanda: About the book, 

[00:21:42] Kelsey: if, if there 

[00:21:42] Amanda: are any. 

[00:21:43] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. So I didn't like the beginning of the book. 

Okay. That's true for a lot of people. People where, 

[00:21:48] Kelsey: Phoebe, it was just Phoebe. 'cause I was like I don't really care for this character right now, Uhhuh, and not until Lila enters the page. Mm-hmm. Was I like, oh, I I'm [00:22:00] enjoying this.

[00:22:01] Kelsey: Yeah. Obviously it's like a darker part of the story because of course she's kind of in her head only, and she's not really talking to people and she just has this plan to un life herself. Mm-hmm. And, yeah. And she's, you know, reminiscing about the past a little bit and her infertility struggles.

[00:22:19] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. Knowing that she cannot have children ever. Mm-hmm. And so she's kind of spiraling in all of that. Mm-hmm. And there is a point where, yeah, Lila comes in to the story and then things start to unravel for her plan. Mm-hmm. And she takes these cat meds, cat sleeping pills. Yeah. Do you remember what her cat's name was?

[00:22:43] Kelsey: I do not forgetting. Yeah. I don't remember. That was also a sad part of the story. Like there was a lot of like subjects in here, but mm-hmm. Definitely made more light and, and funny to me. Yeah. So [00:23:00] they were more easily digestible than someone who might . Have those themes in a memoir, let's say.

[00:23:06] Kelsey: Yeah. Because 

[00:23:07] Amanda: yeah, 

[00:23:07] Kelsey: they tend to be just heavier. 

[00:23:09] Amanda: Yeah. And like I said too, she did a good job of giving us those moments where you can recognize that this is like a devastating moment or moments. Mm-hmm. Or memories for Phoebe and letting those sit for a moment and not like brushing over them.

[00:23:24] Amanda: Mm-hmm. But also, again, somehow managing to help us find. The humor in this thing we called life. Yeah. And how we respond to it. Mm-hmm. And yes, the beginning's tough, but I think it makes the rest of the novel better. Giving us a chance to see where she was in this dark space. And then having Lila blow in, in this whirlwind of like bridezilla-ness kind of, and just taking over.

[00:23:48] Amanda: 'cause that contrast really gets you. 'cause you're like, where is this novel going? Is this gonna be a really depressing spiral into despair for the entire novel Uhhuh? And then Lila shows up and she's like, hell no. You're not gonna take your [00:24:00] life in this hotel and ruin my bridal week.

[00:24:02] Amanda: How dare you. How dare you. And you're like, oh, whoa, this woman, what? So I, yeah. I loved the juxtaposition of those two things and them coming together mm-hmm. And forming what ultimately is a friendship. Mm-hmm. Very unexpected. So I loved the dynamic between the other thing I'll say too. Is that Lila's one of those characters for me that I wasn't sure how I felt about her for a while.

[00:24:27] Amanda: Mm-hmm. I'm like, do I like this character? Yeah. Can I not stand her? Is she like, yeah. She kind of existed in this weird space where I couldn't tell if I, I was enjoying her. I was like, thought she was annoying. Mm-hmm. And I actually really liked that because I hate when characters are too easy to figure out.

[00:24:44] Kelsey: Yeah. I think that was the only thing that I really, I didn't enjoy, but also it was just a necessary part of the story too. And I What, what did you enjoy? I wouldn't cut it out. The, the beginning of the novel. Of the beginning. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:25:00] Absolutely. So there's nothing else that comes to mind that Okay.

[00:25:02] Kelsey: I would mention. 

[00:25:03] Amanda: Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Great. So then like, yeah. Then what were the things that made this look a solid 

[00:25:09] Kelsey: look? Well, the humor in it, I thought it was really funny. And it wasn't like. How do you describe this? It was just like people being people. Yep. And I just thought that was hilarious at some point.

[00:25:23] Kelsey: Yeah. Yeah. And I really enjoyed when Phoebe came out of her shell a bit and was like, oh, fuck it. Okay. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna be honest with these people. Mm-hmm. Dah, dah, dah. Mm-hmm. I don't have anything to lose. Yes. And I really like that aspect of the story because it just was possible for like truth and mm-hmm.

[00:25:44] Kelsey: People to uncover their own truth. 

Yeah. 

[00:25:47] Kelsey: And so just like she had that moment with Gary in the hot tub, she's like, you know what? He's kind of fuckable so I'm just gonna say it. And then with Lila, she's always telling her like exactly [00:26:00] what mm-hmm. Is up. Yep. And, but the other aspect I really liked about it was that, there was a couple, there was two things, but one is that I'm glad that Lila and Phoebe end up continuing to be friends. Mm-hmm. And they're not like, pitted against each other. Yes. Because Lila ultimately, you know, doesn't wanna marry Gary, but mm-hmm. Has been with him for however long . Mm-hmm. And like Gary didn't cheat on her and things like that.

[00:26:27] Kelsey: Yeah. Like that was I thought good storytelling. And there was one more thing too. Oh yeah. Phoebe. I think really shows a lot of empathy throughout the novel to all of the characters Yes. Involved. And I loved that. And that's why she was good with juice. Mm-hmm. And just everybody, Jim, even who was just a goofball.

[00:26:50] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. And even the mother, what was it, the mother and mother-in-law. Mm-hmm. Or no, it was the mother. It was, it was the mother and 

mm-hmm. 

[00:26:57] Kelsey: The sister of Gary. 

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. 

[00:26:59] Kelsey: And [00:27:00] so because she just has nothing to lose, and also she feels like she's in such a rut herself. Mm-hmm. Like she was not in a position to judge others.

[00:27:09] Kelsey: And I felt like that came off really strong. Mm-hmm. Throughout the book. She's just like, okay, juice has this toy that they're really upset that died. Mm-hmm. And so why don't we give it a funeral? Yeah. Because they clearly are upset about this. Yeah. And I just think.

[00:27:24] Kelsey: She was just like being that kind, like empathetic person towards all these people. Yeah. And honest too. Yeah. Like, I remember she was talking to Marla at some point, who is the sister, Gary's sister, and she's like, why are you so mean to Delilah? You know?

[00:27:39] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. And at the end, even like Juice and Marla were reflecting, they're like, is it 'cause we were mean, that she called off the wedding and yeah. Yeah. , That was one of my favorite things about the book. 

[00:27:54] Amanda: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, I think the thing too, she, as you've basically been saying, is like [00:28:00] she has no qualms now kind of cutting through the bullshit and mm-hmm.

[00:28:05] Amanda: Calling things what they are. Yeah. It's both really healing for her. But then it also has such a positive impact on all of the people that she's interacting with. Right. Because they all have their own story, their own trauma, their own things that they're working through. Mm-hmm. And so I like that the story is not just about Phoebe working through mm-hmm.

[00:28:25] Amanda: Again, divorce infidelity. Right. IVFA job that has kind of stalled out . She's a professor and she hasn't gotten tenure. Mm-hmm. And she's no longer really publishing things. She's just stuck in a rut. But then you also see Gary, who's wife has died you know, his wife, he loves so much.

[00:28:39] Amanda: And so he's also working through that juice, who's his daughter is working through the loss of her mother. And we see the ways that that manifest. And Lila, who looks like, you know, kinda like the perfect little rich girl, right? Yeah. She has her own insecurities and her own issues with her family.

[00:28:55] Amanda: And you see the ways that she's kind of using this relationship with Gary to. [00:29:00] Maybe, you know, fix herself or make her life something mm-hmm. That she thinks it should be, or, you know, to make people happy. And so you see all of these people who are struggling in different ways. And I think again, that's what leads to it feeling so human because yeah.

[00:29:17] Amanda: Nobody in this book has their life together, uhhuh, you know? Right. Like we all are, everyone is going through something and I think the book makes that really clear. And as soon as Phoebe starts to let herself live authentically mm-hmm. She is also right able to then engage with others authentically and fully and find joy and meaning and purpose and all of the things that we are looking for, right.

[00:29:43] Amanda: As humans. Yeah. So I really appreciated that. And even to one little thing in regards to the plot summary. Yeah. So Jim is Gary's friend. Yeah. And. [00:30:00] Gary and Lila met at her mother's art gallery mm-hmm. When Gary and Jim walked in one day and what you end up finding out is that Jim has always liked Lila.

[00:30:10] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And he was the one who was like trying to make a move Yeah. And took Gary with him and took Gary with him Yeah. To this art gallery. 'cause he wanted to get to know Lila. But then he saw the way that Gary kind of connected with Lila, realized that Gary was in a rut after his wife had died.

[00:30:26] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And was just really struggling and let Gary pursue Lila instead. Sure. And ultimately you know, in the end, Jim and Lila, have the potential of something working out there. Mm-hmm. So I think that's also important part of the story to mention a little sub subplot.

[00:30:40] Amanda: But yeah, I liked the fact that this was a story full of messy human characters. Mm-hmm. Like, that's essentially in a nutshell. 

[00:30:47] Kelsey: Yeah. And I, I actually really liked the ending. Mm-hmm. And that it wasn't all just like beautifully wrapped up. Yeah. Because it wasn't a romance novel, right? Yeah. Like, it wasn't this [00:31:00] happily ever after that happened at the end.

[00:31:02] Kelsey: Yeah. It was like, Phoebe is. Onto the next chapter of her life. Mm-hmm. Along with many of the other characters. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, Lila and Jim don't necessarily get together, but they potentially do because now there's an opening for them. Yep. And Gary and Phoebe Pbe probably stay in contact. Mm-hmm.

[00:31:20] Kelsey: But she's still doing her own thing. Like what was. Job she was gonna take after was like, 

[00:31:25] Amanda: she was like taking curb. This, this old, well, she's a, a guards keeper. Like a ground agro? No. So she is basically, there's like this historical house, like a state in this town of Rhode Island. Yeah. Well, a estate Yeah.

[00:31:40] Amanda: That she's said bitch asked to take care of, look after. Yeah. And he specifically wants her because like her area of expertise is like, I think it's Victorian literature, but you know Yeah, yeah. Connected to, to history. And so he thinks that she'll just have a true respect and understanding for this home.

[00:31:57] Amanda: And so yeah. She's just gonna, I think, I [00:32:00] think she's just there seasonally, if I'm remembering correctly. I think so. Yeah. So again, it's like we don't really know entirely how this is all gonna work out. It's not like mm-hmm. Wrapped up with a perfect little bow. Yeah. But. I think there's so much hope in this book, and that's why I loved it.

[00:32:16] Amanda: Phoebe's in her mid forties. Mm-hmm. And a lot of people could be like, at that point, either stuck in a rut or just like, my life is what it is, right? This is just how I'm gonna be living for the rest of my life. And the fact that she takes this moment to reinvent herself is really hopeful.

[00:32:31] Amanda: It doesn't matter how old you are, what's going on in your life, like, you always have the option and the choice to make different choices, right? And to end things that need to end to start things that you may have wanted to. Mm-hmm. And I think that's just, again, I know I've said this already like five times, it's, it's really hopeful.

[00:32:49] Amanda: I think a lot of people once they hit middle age too, it's just like, well this is the result of all my choices and now I'm stuck. Yeah. And I'm too old or too, you know, in a [00:33:00] rut to reinvent myself. Hmm. This book is like, actually 

[00:33:05] Kelsey: there's a lot more. And I love that. Yeah. And while the like whole wedding setup is like very unlikely,

[00:33:13] Kelsey: , the themes of the story are Yeah. Definitely happening, happening for people in their forties. Of course. Yeah. Right. So it definitely felt relatable. Yeah. Not that I'm in my forties, we're slowly reaching in that direction, but not yet. Yeah. But I could see these types of like, ideas and mm-hmm.

[00:33:35] Kelsey: Like, essentially like midlife crisis almost. Mm-hmm. Like, thoughts. Kind of plague people Yeah. In that time of their life. 

[00:33:43] Amanda: Absolutely. Like, basically, have I screwed my life up and is it too late to mm-hmm. Start again. Yeah. Or make different choices. And it's like, no, it's not too late unless you decide it is.

[00:33:53] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And you don't wanna go through the, growing pains of starting again and mm-hmm. And, you know, adjusting your [00:34:00] life. I did have a question for you though. Sure. So what were your thoughts, and I'm blanking on his name 'cause you know Meia names, but what were your thoughts about Phoebe's ex-husband?

[00:34:09] Kelsey: Oh yeah. He was so fucking annoying. 

[00:34:12] Amanda: What's his name? Do you remember? I 

[00:34:13] Kelsey: don't remember his name. I don, he is like 

[00:34:14] Amanda: so unimportant name.

[00:34:15] Kelsey: I knew that he was gonna show up at the end. Okay. Especially because he was calling her and she was like, just turning her phone off. She's like, whatever, I don't wanna talk to this guy.

[00:34:24] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was like, why? I don't know. It just, I didn't like his character. I don't know if there would've been a better way to portray him. But it was just like a, this guy definitely really sucks because he's like, I'm gonna cheat on you because I, I need this. And then is like, wait, I'm not actually in love with her.

[00:34:46] Kelsey: I want you back. Like, it just, 

[00:34:50] Amanda: okay. Well, the reason why I asked is because I think I, I can see like initial reaction to him being like, mm-hmm. What a douche bag. But [00:35:00] I, again, I love, I guess I love messy characters. Complex characters. I don't think it's that simple. So also, again, a bit of context for folks who didn't read it.

[00:35:08] Amanda: Her husband, again, whose name we can't remember, he ends up cheating on her with Man X. What was that? 

[00:35:14] Kelsey: Man? X 

[00:35:16] Amanda: Man. X Man X ends up cheating on Phoebe with one of their colleagues. So another teacher at the college of the university that they work at. Mm-hmm. And it appears that the reason why he's made this choice is because.

[00:35:28] Amanda: Phoebe can't bear him a child. And there's just been so much stress. Yeah. And trauma and frustration around their IVF attempts and the realization that she's infertile and like that, that's not gonna happen for them. Mm-hmm. And so this kind of laid out as like the motivation for him to have this affair.

[00:35:46] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And it's easy to be like, oh yeah, full stop. He's the bad guy. Like, what a horrible person. But I don't know, I had a lot more empathy for him. Mm. Especially because as these things [00:36:00] are happening, right. As Phoebe's starting to spiral and grow increasingly again depressed, frustrated, mm-hmm. Insecure around the fact that she's not able to bear this child and start a family with him, she also changes, right?

[00:36:13] Amanda: Mm-hmm. The way that she's interacting with him, responding to him, treating him. And so I think it's easy to be like, oh, poor Phoebe. You know, and again, as a woman, like obviously a lot of that rests with you. You feel the brunt of, you know, not being able to bear a child. But he also is in this relationship and his wife is changing before his eyes, and it's having an impact on him too. And I'm not excusing his behavior at all. Right? Mm-hmm. But I don't know. I think the way that she wrote him, yes. You're frustrated with him. Yes. He's not necessarily a good guy, but I didn't just like flat out hate him. And even when he came back at the end and they have this moment where he's talking through and reflecting on his choices, how he doesn't actually love this woman that he chose to be with.

[00:36:56] Amanda: Which by the way, she has a baby. 

[00:36:59] Kelsey: [00:37:00] Yes. She has a child and 

[00:37:00] Amanda: she has a child. Mm-hmm. A really young child. And so you can kind of see the appeal of him like getting to play dad, right. With this woman Sure. As well. 'cause she also was married, she also had a spouse who was struggling with mental health. And so the two of them kind of found each other.

[00:37:16] Amanda: So I dunno, I think, I guess I just don't paint it in like broad strokes, like black and white. I think. Yes, he made some poor choices, but I didn't hate him as a character. I dunno. I definitely 

[00:37:26] Kelsey: still, yeah. I hated him. And he also, like, I, when I'm thinking about this and I do agree, like they both went through infertility.

[00:37:35] Kelsey: Yeah. It's hard on a relationship and it's hard on people as individuals. 

[00:37:40] Amanda: Yes. 

[00:37:40] Kelsey: And so I understand why he would seek out an easier option 

[00:37:47] Amanda: mm-hmm. 

[00:37:47] Kelsey: Or like a more appealing option. Mm-hmm. Which is a woman who is a little more carefree and doesn't have this burden of infertility mm-hmm. And has a child.

[00:37:56] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. So I understand why he would [00:38:00] make a decision like that, but I did not like that. 

[00:38:04] Amanda: Oh yeah, sure. Absolutely. I totally agree with you on that for sure. And 

[00:38:07] Kelsey: yeah, I, I also think yeah, when he came back it didn't feel like you're talking about them having that conversation and whether or not they could reconcile.

[00:38:18] Kelsey: Reconcile. 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:20] Kelsey: But he just seemed kind of pathetic in that scene for me. 

[00:38:25] Amanda: Mm. 

[00:38:25] Kelsey: And didn't really see his wife. Right. Like for who she was and what was going on for her. Mm-hmm. He was just really seeing himself still. And that's what I noticed. Yeah. 

[00:38:35] Amanda: I mean, yeah. I, I agree that if they had gotten back together and they don't mm-hmm.

[00:38:41] Amanda: But if they had gotten back together, it, it definitely would have been an impediment to Phoebe's continued growth into her, into herself, into this new evolution of herself. Mm-hmm. Like she would've slid back, I think, into old, habits of mind and patterns of behavior. Right. And that would've, yeah. I would've just been like putting this old skin back on.

[00:38:57] Amanda: Mm-hmm. I think I just appreciated [00:39:00] that the writer Allison did give him a chance. I wouldn't say to redeem himself 'cause I don't think mm-hmm. He does. But I think to give him. A little bit more. I think if she had just had all of that happen. 'cause there were flashbacks right in the story where we're seeing what happened with Phoebe beforehand.

[00:39:17] Amanda: So it does change. Mm-hmm. There's two timelines, but I think if we had only gotten to see him in those moments and he didn't have a moment to talk through his choices, to acknowledge his wrongdoing, to ask for forgiveness, I think he would've been really one dimensional. Sure. And so I think it was smart on her part, regardless of how you feel about him, that she offered that character, that moment, instead of just making him this like one dimensional, like villain quote unquote, when in fact he's just a human right who did a really shitty thing and wasn't the best partner that he could have been.

[00:39:52] Amanda: So, because again, he's not the only, he's not the only like quote unquote bad character in this book, right. Where [00:40:00] people are. Treating other people poorly, um mm-hmm. And acting selfishly, like we definitely see that in other characters. So, yeah. Yeah. But anyway, I was just curious about that. 'cause he is, he's a, he's interesting character and, and we only ever see him through Phoebe's eyes until he shows up at the end.

Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:25] Amanda: So, mm-hmm. Yeah. I will say that I did like Phoebe's relationship with Juice. 

[00:40:33] Kelsey: Oh yeah. And even though 

[00:40:35] Amanda: like, maybe biologically she'll never be able to be a mother getting to see the way that she mm-hmm. Was able to draw juice outside of herself. A young girl who's still very much grieving the loss of her mother.

[00:40:46] Amanda: 'cause it wasn't that long ago. 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And 

[00:40:48] Amanda: the ways in which they were able to connect and bring each other joy and understand each other, I just, Ugh. I love that so much. 

[00:40:55] Kelsey: Yeah. Phoebe was the only person that Juice was really responding to. Yeah. Other [00:41:00] than Marla. And of course, like she's not gonna like the woman after her mom.

[00:41:05] Kelsey: Yeah. You know, that could have been anybody and it would not have felt right. Because that was her mom and she still What a teenager. Yeah. She's young. 

[00:41:16] Amanda: Yeah. Well, the other thing too, we didn't say this, but like Lila is also young. Like she's significantly younger than Gary. There's an age gap there. Yes.

[00:41:23] Amanda: Because Lila's in like her twenties and Gary is in his like forties or something or Yeah, she's in her early thirties maybe. But there's definitely an age gap. 

[00:41:28] Kelsey: Yeah. 

[00:41:29] Amanda: And so that also. I think has an impact. 'cause like Lila is also figuring out who the heck she is. Oh, yes. And is definitely looking at this relationship in this marriage as a way to give herself some sort of like identity mm-hmm.

[00:41:43] Amanda: Which is problematic, obviously. And I think, I don't know, I think juice is drawn to the fact again, that Phoebe sees her, understands her as also mm-hmm. You know, growing into her, her authentic self. Right. And kids see, kids see that, like kids can see through a facade mm-hmm. A mile away. 

[00:41:59] Kelsey: [00:42:00] Right.

[00:42:00] Amanda: They have no qualms about, again, calling you out on your bullshit and mm-hmm. So I, I love that she, yeah. She, we dunno what's gonna happen, but like maybe she'll be mm-hmm. Juice's stepmom in the future, you know? Yep. And still get to experience the joys of motherhood in like a non-traditional way.

[00:42:17] Amanda: Mm-hmm. So I, I also really love that storyline, 

[00:42:20] Kelsey: Coming back to Lila. Yeah. And thinking about how, her character developed as well. Mm-hmm. It just seemed. The first time we met her mm-hmm. Was in this way where she was one-on-one with Phoebe. Mm-hmm. And she was just very blunt with her. Right. Mm-hmm.

[00:42:36] Kelsey: And very honest. Mm-hmm. And then as soon as Phoebe comes out to the wedding mm-hmm. Like she realizes this is a different side of. Lila that she doesn't show everybody else. Yes. Yes, exactly. And I really liked that and how Phoebe noticed that. Mm-hmm. She's like, oh, Lila's like really holding back. 'cause like when she talks to me, she's like, fuck these people.

[00:42:58] Kelsey: You know? And Yes. [00:43:00] She noticed that right away the difference. 

[00:43:02] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:43:02] Kelsey: Yeah. 

[00:43:03] Amanda: Which is interesting too because , not to make this a big thing, and I know men can do this too, but I think women do it more where because of the way that we're socialized, like we have these expectations around like how we're supposed to behave and what is acceptable and what isn't.

[00:43:17] Amanda: Right. And you see that so clearly with Phoebe, but also with Lila where mm-hmm. , When they're around other people, they're, you know, just like unassuming and just Right. People pleasing and so mindful of their Ps and Qs and then mm-hmm. When they're on their own, or like you said, one-on-one with each other.

[00:43:34] Amanda: It's just like, this is what I'm really thinking and this is how I really feel about my mother-in-law. Right. This is what I, you know, and it's sad because I think a lot of women can relate to that. 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:44] Amanda: And whether it's like, oh, I have to be a certain way with my spouse, or I need to be a certain way when I am, with like with her colleagues, you know, Phoebe with her male.

[00:43:51] Amanda: Professor, colleagues right. At the university and how she is expected to act or like how women in academia are expected to behave. Mm-hmm. Or like all of [00:44:00] the stereotypes that are placed on them and gender norms are expected to fulfill. So the book also to touched on that a lot, and you see that, in both Lila and Phoebe again, I think it was just another really smart choice on Allison's part to include that.

[00:44:14] Amanda: It can, it can be hard to be just a straight shooting, blunt, honest, tell it like it is woman in the world because mm-hmm. Then you're again like, oh, you're bitchy, or you're just like, I don't know. Mm-hmm. Bossy or whatever, you know, all of 

[00:44:30] Kelsey: those things. Yeah. All of those 

[00:44:31] Amanda: things. And drama. Yeah. And also just seen as this unattractive quality.

[00:44:36] Amanda: Mm-hmm. So the fact that they both ultimately. Were able to express that side of themselves was great. And the fact that Lila's starting on that journey a bit earlier and not waiting until she's like in her forties is ing. Yeah, 

[00:44:50] Kelsey: yeah, yeah, exactly. And imagine like people get married. So people they don't love and I was like, I don't know that this wedding is gonna get [00:45:00] called off like throughout the book.

[00:45:01] Kelsey: I wondered if that would happen. Yeah. And. Ultimately, like I'm glad that people did what was best for them. Yeah. But in real life, I think that happens way more often. Time Oh 

[00:45:14] Amanda: yeah. 

[00:45:14] Kelsey: Than this ending. 

[00:45:16] Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. Because I, I was also unsure the entire lith. I'm like, are they gonna go through with this?

[00:45:21] Amanda: Yeah. Are they gonna get married? Are they not? Yeah. And I could see it going both ways and being like, yeah. That both the tracks. Mm-hmm. It actually makes me think, so when I was traveling, I went and saw the new movie materialists with mm-hmm. It's with Dakota Johnson, like Pedro Pascal Chris Evans.

[00:45:35] Amanda: And the gist of it is this woman, what was it called? 

[00:45:37] Kelsey: Sorry, 

[00:45:37] Amanda: materialists. Oh, it's, I love those actors. Yeah, I did too. Which is why we wanted to go see it. Yeah. And it's like, yeah. Like a romantic comedy. I don't love comedies. Right? Yeah. Oh yes, I've seen, I've seen that. Yes. Okay. Is it good? It's, it is definitely a conversation starter.

[00:45:55] Amanda: Oh, okay. For sure. Just about dating relationships, online dating, [00:46:00] marriage, uhhuh. Just what, what, what the dating, marriage relationship world looks like in 2025. Right. Okay. So there's a lot of kind of smart things about it. I dunno that it connected with the characters per se, but the reason why I'm bringing it up is because the very beginning of the movie, so Dakota Johnson is a, yeah.

[00:46:15] Amanda: A matchmaker and she's at the wedding. I hear that. 

[00:46:18] Kelsey: Sorry. No, I can't hear. Okay. Is Benito, Benito is like grabbing one of his chew toys. Hold on.

[00:46:23] Amanda: We have a special guest. Benito has entered the chat, although you can't see him really because he's so 

[00:46:28] Kelsey: dark.

[00:46:28] Kelsey: He's just this cute black puck. Hi cutie. Hi. Benito. Wanted to hang out with me and was like, starting to get restless. 

[00:46:35] Amanda: Come hang out and give us your feedback on this book, Benito. But anyhow, she's this matchmaker and at the very beginning of the movie, she is invited to the wedding of this woman who, you know, she matched.

[00:46:45] Amanda: Okay? And the woman is like having this breakdown, mm-hmm. Right before, of course, she walks down the aisle, so they're like, Dakota, get in there and tell her what you need to tell her. And they have this beautiful conversation about why this woman is marrying this man. Yeah. [00:47:00] And. It's not necessarily for love.

[00:47:04] Amanda: Right? Yeah. She's like, I feel so bad saying this. And Dakota Johnson's like, I have heard every reason under the sun for why people get married. Like, lay it on me. Yeah. It'll be a secret between you and me. And she's like, I, you know, I like the fact that he makes my sister jealous. I like the fact that he's better looking than my sister's husband.

[00:47:19] Amanda: Like, and she lists off all these things that like nobody ever wants to actually admit and say out loud. Yeah. But are all things that can factor into why you choose to marry someone. Sure. Yeah. And I dunno, I just love that because you know, in our heads, like, oh, fairytale wedding, you marry someone just because they love you and you're so passionate.

[00:47:35] Amanda: And I'm like, actually people get married for a bunch of wrong reasons, a bunch of right reasons. Mm-hmm. A mix of both. 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:41] Amanda: And I think this novel also explores that and Yeah. Again, made it that much more compelling. 

Yeah. I 

[00:47:49] Amanda: agree. Yeah. Yeah. Any other thoughts before we get to our. Reviews because I'm, as always, they're gonna, the reviews will say things and we're like, oh, we wanted to touch on this too, 

[00:47:59] Kelsey: [00:48:00] which is great.

[00:48:01] Kelsey: Definitely. No, I don't think so right now. Okay. I think I'm good. Yeah. Cool. Then we will, it's a fun 

[00:48:07] Amanda: time. I'm just still like over the moon that you enjoyed it because I, I'm not sure, and we haven't read a lot of contemporary literature Uhhuh just on this podcast in general. Yeah. So I was very curious.

[00:48:19] Amanda: 'cause again, you're so hard to predict. You easily could have been like, I hated it and would've been like, yep, that tracks. This was awful. It wouldn't have surprised me. Yeah. So we're gonna move into our literally the best or literally the worst segment. Mm-hmm. Kelsey will be reading one star reviews from Good Reads.

[00:48:34] Amanda: Mm-hmm. I will be reading five star reviews again, just to add to our conversation and maybe touch on some things that we haven't. I touched on mm-hmm. And, and kind of flesh out the discussion a little bit more. So I will go second. So we'll end on a positive note. So, yep. Kelsey, first one star. 

[00:48:52] Kelsey: Alrightyy.

[00:48:52] Kelsey: So Maisha, Farana thank you. What? 

[00:48:58] Amanda: No, the reason why I made that face is [00:49:00] because I originally thought I was doing one star reviews, and, and you and I pulled this one so I know exactly 

[00:49:05] Kelsey: what it says. I was like, what did I, how did I get the name wrong? I don't. No, no, you're good. How you know you're good.

[00:49:11] Kelsey: Like it's a random name. So funny. If you ever wanna check out our YouTube channel, you can see all of 

[00:49:18] Amanda: the facial expressions we're making on each other. Yes. 

[00:49:21] Kelsey: Okay. Another super hype book that I really didn't like, the Plot Beyond Cliche, woman gets cheated on by her husband gets a divorce, things her life is over, and even contemplates suicide.

[00:49:34] Kelsey: Then out of absolutely nowhere, she magically finds some kind of motivation and embarks on this. Oh, so predictable journey of self-discovery. The main character Phoebe, was unbearable. She had no personality whatsoever, and the bride forgot her name, just screamed all the time. The audio book don't even get me started. It was atrocious. Every second of it deepened [00:50:00] my misery, making an already awful book. Even worse. And the way the author handled sensitive topics like suicide and oppression. So nonchalantly, I felt offended personally. 

[00:50:12] Amanda: Hmm, interesting.

[00:50:13] Amanda: I definitely thought Phoebe had a lot of personality and one of the things I loved about her is the way that she like just gives people nicknames. Oh yeah. That, that's right. Like neck pillow and like a high bun. And I don't know, I think she has a lot of personality, which again, at the beginning you don't see it as much.

[00:50:30] Amanda: 'cause she's just starting to come out of her shell and come into herself. Right. Which tracks. And then as it progresses, as she encounters Lila, you see. Her kind of, I don't know, coming into like full color and it's beautiful. 

Yeah. 

[00:50:43] Amanda: So, alright, well thank you. One person's opinion, one person's opinion, and we appreciate it.

[00:50:49] Amanda: So my first five star review is from Chris. My Lord did. I love this novel, astute, smart, insightful, and [00:51:00] funny as hell. Part social commentary, part re-imagining of Bronte and Austen. It's All heart. A woman goes to a swanky Newport, Rhode Island hotel to kill herself and gets sucked into the massive wedding that will be occurring there later that week.

[00:51:14] Amanda: A brilliant setup of the wedding industrial complex and a moving exploration of two women's transformations, the bride and the possible suicide. I treasured every page. Yeah. I mean, one of the things we didn't talk about, which isn't really that important is. The insane one. The insane amount of money that people will spend on a wedding.

[00:51:37] Amanda: Yes. And yes. Just like how insane, if you step back and think about it, how insane the wedding industry is. Just Oh yeah. The way in which, like, prices are inflated. All of these things that people are trying to convince you that you must have mm-hmm. In order to have an amazing wedding. Right. The fact that, I mean, this is a wedding celebration that takes place over a week.

[00:51:58] Amanda: Mm-hmm. Which is just, [00:52:00] I can't even and just how, yeah. It just turned into this entire overpriced spectacle when at the heart of it, it's like, do you love each other? Do you wanna spend the rest of your lives together? Yeah. Are you happy? Alright, great. 

[00:52:13] Kelsey: But yeah. Okay. IL so I got married last summer.

[00:52:17] Amanda: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:17] Kelsey: And I loved our wedding. Mm-hmm. And I did too. It was very small. It was very small. It was, but it was still expensive, and sometimes I do wish that we just had that money instead, but like, I did love our wedding. It was very sweet and like very what is the word I'm looking for?

[00:52:35] Kelsey: Like, intimate. Intimate. Thank you. Yeah, it was, yeah. So it was, I enjoyed that I was there. I can attest to it, but did we need the table placements and all of that? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it makes nice pictures. It was very cute, but yeah, it was nice. But yeah, so yeah, all those things.

[00:52:54] Kelsey: Alright, my next one is short. The, actually next three are pretty [00:53:00] short. Okay. People just hated it and wanted to get out. This is from Andrea. I think I must have read a different book than the other reviewers as I am in the minority. This is the worst book I ever finished. There is no plot and the characters have no depth.

[00:53:14] Kelsey: I am utterly disappointed. 

[00:53:18] Amanda: Well, I mean, if you were, if you were looking for a plot driven book, this, this is for sure not it. Yes. A whole lot doesn't happen. Mm-hmm. But if you're looking for, I don't know, flesh out characters, I think they're pretty fleshed out. 

[00:53:30] Kelsey: I feel like we got to know why people were struggling and all of that.

[00:53:34] Kelsey: Like of course Phoebe is more in depth, but then even like Lila, we know she lost her dad and that's been really impactful for her. And like you said, she's a people pleaser and we get to the depths of that. 

[00:53:45] Amanda: Yeah. With 

[00:53:46] Kelsey: Gary, he's still grieving over his Yeah. Dead wife and juice, like mm-hmm. Lost a mother and like we see the fallout of that.

[00:53:54] Kelsey: Like I feel like the characters get a lot of 

[00:53:57] Amanda: I agree. And we get it. Like you were saying, we [00:54:00] understand their motivations for why they're behaving the way they are. And I would say not a single person. How they show up at the beginning of the book. Your initial impression is the same by the end at all.

[00:54:10] Amanda: Right? For any of them, you're like, you're like, oh, I was wrong about you, or I misjudged you, or, I thought you were this way, but actually you were this way, or like, that's why you were saying those things and behaving that way. So Uhhuh I, or even like Jim, who's just like a go. Yes, exactly. You're like, oh Jim, and then you find out he has like all of this depth, all these things happening underneath the surface.

[00:54:28] Amanda: So I would have to disagree with that. But thank you for that review. So my next one is from court, Zark Za. Oh, okay. And I, I cannot tell 'cause this person didn't use quotation marks. And it's been a minute since I've read this book, so I cannot tell if this first little chunk is a quote from the book.

[00:54:47] Amanda: Okay? Or if this is just the reviewer's own words. So here we go. The most difficult thing in life is to know yourself. So we lie to convince ourselves Another reality exists. We act against our own best interests to [00:55:00] prop up, fabricated emotions. We bury our heads to protect our vulnerability. We do so many things to avoid seeing who we really are, because who we really are is what scares us most.

[00:55:11] Amanda: This book puts on a clinic and exploring all of those themes. Reading, it was like looking at a 384 page mirror and being forced to answer some of life's most difficult questions. I know Phoebe's insecurity and depression. I understand her desire to break free from her interior hell to become someone new.

[00:55:30] Amanda: I have lived in the debilitating throes of all consuming self-doubt. I know Phoebe. And to watch her break free from those self-administered handcuffs and transform into her fully realized self was therapeutic on so many levels. To watch her have such a beautiful impact on the people around her by simply being unfiltered and authentic was rejuvenating.

[00:55:50] Amanda: It gave me hope when hope felt scarce. I loved this book and I will hear no other opinions on it. This is one of the best things I've read in a long time. [00:56:00] Yeah, I think, I'm sure there's probably so many people that could echo those sentiments that this person wrote in terms of seeing themselves in this character.

[00:56:09] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And that's why it's so important to have different stories told and different representation and to not shy away from the challenges that life throws at us. 'cause we're all facing them. Yeah. In different ways. So. Absolutely agree. Court. Thank you.

[00:56:25] Kelsey: Okay. My third

[00:56:27] Kelsey: review. Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh. I feel a bit tired this afternoon. Yeah. This is on a weekday, but it's our summer and mm-hmm. I did work this morning, so I came back home. I'm just 

[00:56:41] Amanda: jet lagged. I just got in last night from the East coast, so. Oh man. 

[00:56:46] Kelsey: So working things out this is from m semi hiatus. Mm-hmm.

[00:56:52] Kelsey: And it's a very, very short one. A pseudo intellectual disaster where a serious topic like suicide is treated like a party [00:57:00] trick. War criminals are glorified as heroes, and the real crime is wasting your time reading it. 

[00:57:06] Amanda: Oh, that's right, because who served in the military? That's what I was going to, I don't remember.

[00:57:12] Amanda: It's one Oh, no, it's one of the, is it, it's Gary's brother, right. I think it's Scar's brother. And they do talk about how he's celebrated for his service and it's a big deal and I, mm-hmm. I wanna say it's scariest, brother. I could be wrong listeners, I apologize, but maybe that's what they're referring to.

[00:57:33] Amanda: But I feel like that's kind of overblowing it to say that we're celebrating war criminals. Yeah. I think are the book is, 

[00:57:38] Kelsey: Okay. Because yeah, I mean, it doesn't go into his experience as No. And 

[00:57:42] Amanda: it's not like, like granted the people in his life are very proud of his service and Okay. Yeah. It does often come up when they're together, so mm-hmm.

[00:57:51] Amanda: Maybe they are, quote unquote glorifying it to an extent. Mm-hmm. But it didn't feel like I wouldn't have expressed it the [00:58:00] way that that person did. Mm-hmm. And I, I think that's perhaps, yeah. Over-exaggerating. 

[00:58:04] Kelsey: I also wanted to dive into the topic of suicide uhhuh and just I don't know. I've never personally been in like that space of contemplating suicide. Mm-hmm. And so I wouldn't know like, what is maybe damaging or what did they say? No, that it was just like like 

[00:58:22] Amanda: making light of something 

[00:58:23] Kelsey: that was, yes. Yeah. Thank you. Just making light of like this really dark, deep topic.

[00:58:29] Kelsey: And I, I didn't feel that way throughout the book, but I'm curious for those, like who have been in that space mm-hmm. How they felt. 

[00:58:36] Amanda: Yeah. About the representation. Yeah. Suicide. That's valid. Because I also haven't been in that space. Yeah. And so I can't speak to it from the I perspective. 

Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:45] Amanda: But, and, and I don't know if Allison has either, to be fair, I, I don't know.

[00:58:48] Amanda: Yeah. Mm-hmm. But I would say, and we've said this a million times in this podcast, and we'll probably continue to say it, that. No, no one person's experience is the same as [00:59:00] someone else's. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And EV's experience is not necessarily the experience of a person reading this book or another person reading this book, you know?

[00:59:08] Amanda: Mm-hmm. So I think to say that, you know, suicide or suicidal ideation can only look this way. And if it's not written that way, then it's not accurate. It's problematic. Yeah. So that, I guess that's all I would say. 'cause again, I don't have any other firsthand knowledge about it. Mm-hmm. And I don't know, I don't even know if Phoebe knew ultimately how serious she was about taking her own life.

[00:59:34] Amanda: You know, like she, she had, 'cause there's like, there's different stages. Yeah. And we talk about this even as we, each year as we're, getting trained on suicide awareness for our students. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, there's different stages to that process. Right. And I don't even know if, if Phoebe herself knew kind of how mm-hmm.

[00:59:51] Amanda: Serious, her intentions were. Yeah. And that might have been why it seemed quote unquote easy for Lila to talk her out of it. Yeah. [01:00:00] So I think that's also something to think about too. Yeah. 

[01:00:03] Kelsey: But also, I don't think Lila talked her out of it, you know, like I think Lila gave her the opportunity to see Yeah.

[01:00:10] Kelsey: Something else is possible. Right. 'cause she was still very much like gonna go through with the plan. Mm-hmm. She kind of did go through with the plan. Mm-hmm. Even though that wasn't going to be successful in the end. Yeah. But in those first like few chapters, like she's contemplating it and like reminiscing about why she's wanting to go forward with this.

[01:00:30] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. And this is something we didn't say, but like I do think it. Is so important to remember that you can be influential on people's lives . Yeah. And it, it wasn't in a straight, like, direct way. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, I've worked with a lot of students who experienced suicidal ideation, you know, and so mm-hmm.

[01:00:52] Kelsey: You see that in them, and I, I sort of saw them in this character. Mm-hmm. Because like what you were saying is that [01:01:00] like, even Phoebe didn't realize, you know? Mm-hmm. And I think that at least expressed by those that I've worked with, like that is a sensation that's like, wait, you guys are like taking this too seriously, like, I'm not actually gonna do it.

[01:01:14] Kelsey: Or like things like that mm-hmm. Where it's like, or it's not that big a deal. But they really are entrenched in these really deep, dark thoughts. Mm-hmm. But I also think that. Helping and aiding someone just like any mental health like concern. Yeah. Like if you are depressed. Right. The only way to not be depressed is like getting out of that cycle.

[01:01:36] Kelsey: And I think that's what Lila gave her mm-hmm. She's like, okay, come to my wedding, come down here, , interact with people basically. Mm-hmm. Is what happened. 

Yeah.

[01:01:45] Kelsey: And it really deterred her. Mm-hmm. Just because she was doing something different, I think. 

[01:01:51] Amanda: Yeah. And like it offered her an alternate path that she uhhuh once she didn't have access to before.

[01:01:56] Amanda: Right. 'cause it was just like this very unexpected thing, which then opened up [01:02:00] this pathway for hope and potential and other possibilities she hadn't considered. Yeah. And also, again, it's not. Unheard of to help to talk people out of that headspace and help to show mm-hmm.

[01:02:13] Amanda: Like it happens. Sure. Mm-hmm. You know, successfully. It's why we have hotlines. It's why, we have , counselors and all of these things, therapists, et cetera. 'cause it is possible. And so I think for a person who read this book to be like, oh, like she kind of, you know, made a different choice even though she was so sure she wanted to do this thing.

[01:02:29] Amanda: Yeah. Like, it seems unrealistic that she would change her mind. I'm like, but that happens. Yeah. And it means that we have agency both as people trying to be good friends and, and colleagues and allies and neighbors. Right. It's not just like, oh, they've already gotten to a certain point.

[01:02:43] Amanda: They're too far gone. Guess That's right. You know? 

[01:02:46] Kelsey: Yeah. And I think like reflecting back on, you know, the writing style and just thinking of what happened, I really think it was that Phoebe. Was honest. 

[01:02:57] Amanda: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's what 

[01:02:58] Kelsey: really opened the mm-hmm. The door. Mm-hmm. [01:03:00] Because she was really honest with Lila.

[01:03:01] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. And then also Gary. Yeah. And it's like she's saying this out loud. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that has been proven to support mm-hmm. Those yeah. In depression or experiencing depression and suicide. Yeah. Because one of the, we talk 

[01:03:12] Amanda: about, not to go off too much on a tangent, but one of the things that they tell us during our training like suicide prevention training, is that a lot of people.

[01:03:21] Amanda: Don't even want to mention the word suicide. 

[01:03:23] Kelsey: Yeah. And like if I 

[01:03:24] Amanda: say it, I'm gonna put this idea in someone's head, right. And da da da. And it's like, that's not true. Mm-hmm. And actually providing spaces where we can be really honest and talk about what people are feeling and that they might be potentially considering taking their own life, like that's actually ultimately helpful versus just like, we're just gonna sweep it under the rug.

[01:03:40] Amanda: We'll pretend this isn't happening. Mm-hmm. Can actually make that person feel more alone and isolated and misunderstood. Yeah. So. Okay. Anyhow moving on to the next five. Yeah. Three more are Yes. Jennifer Tarheel reader, everyone is absolutely right about the wedding.

[01:03:57] Amanda: People. I could not have loved this book more. [01:04:00] In the wedding people, the darkness of mental health struggles is not the focus. Instead, it's connection, humor, growth, understanding, love. Mm-hmm. So much love. There's so much to love about these characters. This story will make you feel good, but it's not in a high only one note, easy story way, though it's highly readable and perfectly written, this is a carefully tenderly drawn story with substance out the wazoo.

[01:04:25] Amanda: I'm on a reading roll right now, and this was another favorite for me this year. Phoebe's Insights into Marriage and Separation made me feel seen. And this story of opening her new chapter gave me a lot of hope for my own, Ugh. I love that. Yes, this book is all about connection, humor, and growth, and understanding and love, like it really is.

[01:04:43] Amanda: I couldn't have said it better myself, and I think for her to articulate it so concisely, it's just like, yes. Thank you so much, Jennifer. 

[01:04:51] Kelsey: My final review is from Ty. So confused by the high rating of the book. Maybe you have to [01:05:00] read it at a certain time in your life to appreciate it. If your husband just cheated on you, maybe this book is for you, but I thought it was awful.

[01:05:10] Kelsey: There's not a single likable person in this book. The main character is so bland and boring that I imagine her speaking in monotone every time she spoke. I could go on and on and on and on, but I think I've already wasted enough time on this book. 

[01:05:27] Amanda: So I, you know, I hear this a lot in a lot of reviews and, and just like in general when people are giving feedback on a book, like the characters weren't likable, and I always wanna be like, what does that mean?

[01:05:38] Amanda: Because obviously that can mean different things for different people. So he didn't say 

[01:05:42] Kelsey: likable, he said bland and boring. 

[01:05:44] Amanda: No, but before that did said none. Yeah. He said like, none of these characters are like, when I'm, I would love to ask him what his criteria or what his definition of likable is, because.

[01:05:56] Amanda: Sometimes I feel like people say that characters aren't likable [01:06:00] because Yeah, because they're messy or because there's not something in it that they personally can relate to. Which makes sense. Because you're not gonna relate to every character you read. Mm-hmm. So I would, I would love to know, 'cause I hear that a lot in reviews and then Yeah.

[01:06:13] Amanda: People's feedback and I'm like, I would love for them to be more specific and say exactly why he said she's bland, bland and boring. Which I, I mean, I don't see that in the book, but, okay. Mm-hmm. I guess like. I thought she was very witty and incisive and 

mm-hmm. 

[01:06:28] Amanda: Had a, just a sharp eye. Like very, her observations were just on point of, of people.

[01:06:33] Amanda: Yeah. You know, but, okay. 

Alright. 

[01:06:36] Kelsey: And also I think to reduce this book to, maybe if your husband cheated on you, you would like this book. Oh yeah. I didn't like that. That's 

[01:06:45] Amanda: like ugly, like, yeah. What? I know it's, yeah. It's kind of insensitive to be honest. Yes. It's, and yes. Yeah. Like you said, reducing this book to just one thing, which it's not.

[01:06:55] Amanda: Yeah. Okay. Last five star. This is from [01:07:00] Jonas. I love a good transformative story and the wedding people knocks it out of the park. It deserves all the awards and accolades. The wedding people tackles big issues. It is equally dark as it is funny. Depression is a major threat in the narrative and could be considered a secondary character.

[01:07:18] Amanda: Phoebe wants to escape her depression by going to a happy place. And her definition of a happy place is a place she's never been. I've been to Newport and loved that I was familiar with the places the character spent their time. A great quote connected to this aspect of the plot is, quote, when you are happy, everywhere is a happy place when you are sad.

[01:07:36] Amanda: Everywhere is a sad place, unquote. This is a perfect book club book. I strongly suggest, at least buddy reading. There are so many phrases to text that your buddy will either be like, and then she has a series of emoji, it's like crying emoji laughing emoji. And if they haven't reached that part, I am sure the phrase will encourage them to read extra.

[01:07:57] Amanda: Some examples are hot tub. Human [01:08:00] Princess Saving Shakespeare and the Sex Woman, the Wedding people is, oh my God, we didn't even talk about that part. We'll, the Wedding People is a book about saving and rediscovering the person we want to be. It is a memorable read. The Author has a way with words.

[01:08:16] Amanda: It was an amazing reading experience. So yes, we did the talk about the sex one. Oh my God. But really quickly, I do love that quote. It sounds really simple and maybe even trite, but it is so true. Like when you're happy, everywhere is a happy place when you're sad. Oh yeah. Everywhere's a sad place and it really speaks the fact that our interiority and where we are mm-hmm.

[01:08:36] Amanda: In our emotional and mental lives, we just project that out. Right. So there is no like place that is like technically externally a happy place. Mm-hmm. We make it that way based on what's happening on the inside. And again, such a simple thing, but something we often forget. Mm-hmm. And are looking for external things to make us feel those things.

[01:08:55] Kelsey: Yeah. And it's hard to remember that when you're in dark places. Yes. Like experiencing [01:09:00] depression. Yes, exactly. Yeah. But 

[01:09:01] Amanda: yes, the sex woman, how did we like for completely forget, I don't know. You read this book more recently than I did. So why don't you tell people. What the sex woman is, Kelsey. Okay, 

[01:09:11] Kelsey: so on the bachelorette night it's funny, like the relationship with Lila and Phoebe, like Lila's, like, here's all the information for the Bachelorette at night.

[01:09:20] Kelsey: Make sure it's perfect. Oh, yes. Because she makes Phoebe ultimately the maid of honor, we should say that. Oh, yes, yes. And so Phoebe's like calling places and stuff, and the only onscreen, or like in the book writing is calling the sex woman, right? Mm-hmm. They call it sex woman, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then it turned out to be like this, like exploration of your sexuality and relationship with your partner.

[01:09:43] Kelsey: And if you were lacking partner then, you know, you went inward for just your sexuality on your own. And it was really insightful and such a, I thought it was such a good idea. What were the questions [01:10:00] that she asked though? I can't even remember because I felt like, oh God. I remember Phoebe like answered first, I'm pretty sure.

[01:10:07] Kelsey: And then everybody was talking about their sexual life essentially. Yeah. And Marla was in the room and it turned out that she had been sexting her husband to try to increase , desire, um mm-hmm. For each other and their like sexual life. But, yeah. I just don't remember what Phoebe said though.

[01:10:27] Kelsey: I don't remember. 

[01:10:28] Amanda: But essentially like the GIZ is that everyone's thinking that it's gonna be like a sex party. Like maybe they'll be like, I don't know, strippers, like that typical bachelorette party. And instead it really is this woman helping them embrace and explore, like you were saying.

[01:10:42] Amanda: Yeah. Their sexuality and their sexual lives. I mean, it's like really healthy and constructive and helping to , break down shame that women often have, like around themselves as sexual beings. Mm-hmm. But then I, but yeah, go ahead. 

[01:10:54] Kelsey: I also think that,, they all sort of opened up a bit. They do in this conversation they do [01:11:00] around their sexuality.

[01:11:01] Kelsey: Yeah. And like. Yeah, it was, and it gives some 

[01:11:04] Amanda: greater like insight and understanding for each other. 

[01:11:06] Kelsey: Yeah. 

[01:11:07] Amanda: Yeah. It was really be beautiful moment and also kind of funny. 

[01:11:10] Kelsey: Yes. It was very funny. And just a, a nice, a nice little moment. 

[01:11:14] Amanda: Yeah. So, yeah, I think this book does such a great job and so many levels, like in such a, because it's not a super long book in such a short time, she does touch on so many different issues.

[01:11:28] Amanda: Yeah. In general, but also like different aspects of like being a woman and also the different rules that we can hold as women, whether it's a mother, a daughter, a sister, a friend, like all of these things and what they can mean and those relationships with each other. I just, yeah, I just love this book and if you haven't read it.

[01:11:48] Amanda: I think you should. I think depending on your age and where you are in your life, you may connect with it more or less, but I think overall it is a solid well written book [01:12:00] that will also make you laugh. 

[01:12:02] Kelsey: Yeah. When you least expect it. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. 

[01:12:06] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. And I think I can speak for both of us and say we'd both recommend it.

[01:12:10] Amanda: Would that be accurate, Kelsey? 

[01:12:12] Kelsey: Yes. I recommend this book. Okay. 

[01:12:14] Amanda: So yeah, final recommendation. Both Kelsey and I give it our stamp of approval. Yeah. It's got the litted or acquitted stamp of approval lit vibes only stamp of approval. Oh my God. 

[01:12:22] Kelsey: We should get an actual stamp. 

[01:12:26] Amanda: What are we gonna stamp though?

[01:12:28] Amanda: Our books? Put it on social media. See, we can maybe at some point when we have merch, we'll have like a lit or quote book stamp. That'd be super cute. That would be fun. But yeah, we love this book. Look at the library. Love that. Kelsey loved it. And definitely let us know in our, on our socials. Yes. If you haven't, Kelsey, do you wanna let folks know once again where they can find us 

[01:12:50] Kelsey: on socials?

[01:12:50] Kelsey: Yes, so our socials, we are on Instagram at lit vibes only. Underscore podcast. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And on TikTok and [01:13:00] YouTube at Lit Vibes only podcast where you can interact with us. Mm-hmm. Comment on our posts, engage, share things we'd love to hear from you.

[01:13:09] Kelsey: Yep. And of course, go back to where you listened to this podcast and rate and review. Mm-hmm. And we will be forever grateful. We 

[01:13:20] Amanda: sure would. Yeah. And also if you're on Spotify, since you can't review the whole podcast, you Yeah. You just leave comments on an episode, you could comment on this episode and let us know your thoughts on this book, especially if you've read it right.

[01:13:31] Amanda: If it's like a literature credit for you, that's a great place to leave your feedback right after you've hit that five star rating. We would love that. So thank you guys so much for hanging out with us today, and we'll see you next Monday. 

Bye 

[01:13:47] Amanda: bye.