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Ep. 49: Lit Recs: Multiracial/Multicultural Heritage Month

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Join Kelsey and Amanda as they celebrate multiracial and multicultural heritage with book recommendations spanning historical fiction, memoirs, and children's literature. Expect witty banter, heartfelt reflections, and a delightful dive into stories that champion diverse identities.

00:00 Welcome to Lit Vibes Only

00:34 Social Media and Podcast Promotion

01:37 Current Reads

06:00 What We’re Celebrating This Month

08:02 Fry Bread by Kevin Noble Maillard

18:28 Real American by Julie Lythcott-Haims

23:47 The Bastard of Istanbul by Elif Shafak

33:05 Everything I Never Told You by Celeste Ng

41:19 Recap and Final Thoughts


Follow us on TikTok & Youtube @litvibesonlypodcast and on Instagram @litvibesonly_podcast. You can also email us at litvibesonlypodcast@gmail.com We'd love to hear from you!

See you on Mondays!

Ep. 49: Lit Recs: Multiracial/Multicultural Heritage Month

[00:00:00] Amanda: Welcome to Lit Vibes Only, where we lit the shit out of books we love and hate. I'm Amanda, the insightful, thrill seeker, and historical fiction nerd. 

[00:00:14] Kelsey: And I'm Kelsey, the unhinged, diehard romantic and fantasy reader. Yay. Hey, I remembered that off. You 

[00:00:22] Amanda: did. 

[00:00:23] Kelsey: Off the top of my head. I was like, oh shit. I called on.

[00:00:24] Amanda: The look on your face was like, she doesn't have it pulled up in front of her. She's just gonna wing it. 

[00:00:29] Kelsey: And 

[00:00:30] Amanda: you nailed it. Well, 

[00:00:30] Kelsey: welcome everyone. Welcome, welcome. And I did it. And, also here are our socials. Find us on Instagram at Live Vibes Only podcast, and on TikTok and YouTube at Live Vibes Only podcast.

[00:00:47] Kelsey: And of course, always go take that minute to rate and review our podcast because we desperately need the attention. And you know, your help. So. Yes. 

[00:00:59] Amanda: Yes [00:01:00] please. Thank you. Yeah, I think you've already like left a comment before on like a Spotify episode. Mm-hmm. You can leave a comment on this episode. You can leave a comment on many episodes as you want multiple comments, but especially on Apple.

[00:01:13] Amanda: 'cause most of our listeners are actually on Apple podcasts, and that's where we have the fewest number of like ratings and reviews. Yeah. So if you could take a minute, if you're on Apple Podcasts right now, as. Especially and can rate us or even, you know, take it a step further and write a one or two sentence review.

[00:01:29] Amanda: So invaluable, so helpful, and mm-hmm. We offer you our gratitude in advance. Yes. That we do. 

[00:01:37] Amanda: Yeah. But we're here with our Lit Rex episode for August and are really excited to get into some great books for you. But before we do that. What are you reading right now? Kelsey? Amanda had 

[00:01:52] Kelsey: to help me with the title.

[00:01:53] Kelsey: I was gonna go get the book, but I'm like, oh gosh. We just have to record at this point. I just picked up [00:02:00] a book at Elliot Bay with Amanda. Yes. 

[00:02:04] Amanda: We went book shopping yesterday. It was great. And, 

[00:02:06] Kelsey: I started a Forbidden Alchemy by Sarah McEwen. Oh, 

[00:02:10] Amanda: Stacy. Oh my God.

[00:02:16] Amanda: Why do I know this? 

[00:02:20] Kelsey: Oh my gosh. That is too funny. Stacy. Stacy? Mm-hmm. Thank you. Mm-hmm. And she's a famous book talker that was not like an author to begin with. Mm-hmm. I don't believe. But also, she's not like a book talker. She's on TikTok. Sorry, I said book talker, but 

[00:02:36] Amanda: Okay. 

[00:02:37] Kelsey: She's, she's on TikTok. Okay.

[00:02:39] Kelsey: And she's a famous talker. Okay. Because she's a comedian. She's very funny. And yeah, so now she's, no, she's an author. She's an author and she's gonna be in Seattle this week. And I don't get a go because I have an appointment I have to go to and I'm just so sad. 

[00:02:57] Amanda: Disappointing. Yeah. So she is a comedian on [00:03:00] TikTok who wrote Yes.

[00:03:01] Amanda: A romantic book. Yes. So maybe now does that make her a book talker now? I don't know. I feel like she's like blurring the lines. I think so. 

[00:03:07] Kelsey: Yeah. She's blurring the lines, but I'll have to send you some of her videos. They're pretty funny. Okay. Yeah. 

[00:03:12] Amanda: Okay. I'm curious now. Well, that sounds like such a Kelsey book and Yes.

[00:03:16] Amanda: I'm curious to hear what you'll think. I am currently reading Atmosphere, which is the most recent Taylor Jenkins read novel. All right. I know folks have all sorts of opinions about Taylor. Jenkins read books. I Am a fan. Are they like the best novels I've ever read? No, but I find them really entertaining.

[00:03:37] Amanda: I think they're perfect. Beach reads, I appreciate the wide range of topics she covers. This one's about female astronauts in the eighties. Ooh. And. Yeah, I'm just like learning so much about space and the, the stars and women in space and really enjoying it. And it also, from what I can tell so far, it looks like it's like a sic romance.

[00:03:59] Amanda: Like, it [00:04:00] looks like the main character I. Is a lesbian or maybe bisexual, I think like I think she's, she's sorting out her sexual identity. Mm-hmm. Which can be tricky, especially like in the eighties at that point. So I am also appreciating that aspect of the story as well. But, okay. She is great and I'll definitely be talking about this book on her social.

[00:04:18] Amanda: So another reason to hop on socials. Get over there already, already and like let, let me know what you think and if I'm totally off base or if you love this book as well. I just was on Instagram this morning and one of my friends is also reading it and she's like, does this mean we're in a book club now?

[00:04:32] Amanda: 'cause we're both reading this book. I was like, yes, absolutely. I can't wait to hear what she thinks. So that is what I'm currently reading. Fun. I'm actually going to the beach right after we finish. Recording this. I'll be taking Fantastic. I'll be taking this book with me to finish it. So shout 

[00:04:49] Kelsey: out to Anna.

[00:04:50] Kelsey: Yeah. Y'all are just going to the beach to hang out. 

[00:04:52] Amanda: Yeah, we're just gonna alai which I live really close and so it's so convenient and it's also one of the few beaches in Seattle. Not that anybody cares about any of [00:05:00] this information, but it's one of the few beaches in Seattle that has sand. Um mm-hmm.

[00:05:04] Amanda: Because most beaches in the p and w are pebble beaches. Rock like rocks. So , it's great. The water's freezing, but yeah. That's nice. 

[00:05:11] Kelsey: Yeah. Not getting in, but not getting in, hanging out. I've never 

[00:05:14] Amanda: got into the sound to go swimming, but it's a beautiful day, so I'm like, have I, I'm trying to think.

[00:05:21] Amanda: Have you? I put feet in and I was like, there is no way I will fully submerge myself in this ice bath. You, you couldn't paint. 

[00:05:28] Kelsey: I grew up in Bellingham. Mm-hmm. And I think that's technically the sound still. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I was in that water a lot. No, no. I was a canoe puller. And so sometimes you get.

[00:05:39] Kelsey: Knocked off. Knocked that off. Oh, but you 

[00:05:41] Amanda: wouldn't like, like deliberately an intent? Oh no. I would, swimming would. Oh, you would? Okay. Okay. 

[00:05:45] Kelsey: I mean, it was both. No, it definitely did. 

[00:05:48] Amanda: Okay. I only will go swimming in like the lakes here because they will, they will warm up to a certain degree, like, you know, yeah.

[00:05:55] Amanda: By July or August. But no, the sound is always freezing 'cause it's so deep. [00:06:00] But yes. Anyhow, it's our RIC episode for August and Kelsey and I took it upon ourselves because they're actually, it's some 

[00:06:06] Kelsey: makeup. 

[00:06:07] Amanda: We are making up our own kind of heritage month because there isn't one for Yeah. August. And so we decided that we're gonna do kind of a multiracial slash.

[00:06:17] Amanda: Multicultural like Heritage Month and Celebrate Yeah. Stories and authors that dive into multiracial and multicultural characters. Yes. And so that's what we're doing here today. I don't kind of have a blurb to go along with it except to maybe say that both Kelsey and I have multiracial backgrounds multicultural backgrounds and so mm-hmm.

[00:06:38] Amanda: I think, mm-hmm. This is definitely something that we can both speak to from the I perspective. And since we don't have a month celebrating mm-hmm. US multiracial and the multicultural folks, we're gonna make one. 

[00:06:52] Kelsey: Yeah. And August seemed like a perfect time to do it. August 

[00:06:55] Amanda: is the the best time to do it, so.

[00:06:57] Amanda: We're excited to share some of these [00:07:00] books and authors with you. And that's really kind of all they have to say for the lead up. 

[00:07:04] Kelsey: Yeah. This is wild too. Just thinking this will be our full. Year of doing our Lit Rex episodes. I mean all the episodes, but like, yeah, we have done a full year, so 12 Lit Rex episodes where we recommend two books every time.

[00:07:22] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's, it's wild. So 

[00:07:25] Amanda: yeah, two big each, four books total. And so like lots of good reading. Yes. And we'll definitely have to take some time this month and kind of think about. What we wanna do moving forward. Mm-hmm. If we wanna like switch things up next year. Right. If you wanna kind of keep with the same heritage months that we celebrated.

[00:07:38] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And again, if you guys have thoughts about what we can do or what you'd like to see, this is a great opportunity to chime in as we're like Oh yeah. You know, planning at the drawing board, figuring out next steps. We definitely wanna hear more of what you guys are interested too. 

[00:07:51] Kelsey: Yeah. Definitely have to be revamping that.

[00:07:53] Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So we each have two books to dive into. Do you want me to start or would you like to start, [00:08:00] Kelsey? 

[00:08:00] Kelsey: I can start us off. Okay. So I'm kind of switching it up a little bit. . I am highlighting a children's book this month.

[00:08:08] Kelsey: Fun. 

[00:08:09] Amanda: Something different. I love it. 

[00:08:11] Kelsey: Yeah. So this book is called Fry Bread, A Native American Family Story by Kevin Noble, Millard. Mm-hmm. But I also will be highlighting the illustration. The illustrator, illustrator, illustrator.

[00:08:30] Amanda: 5,600 and oh my God. 

[00:08:34] Kelsey: I will be highlighting the illustrator as well, who is Martinez. Neil. Okay. Okay. So diving into Kevin A. Little bit, he's currently a professor at Syracuse University where he teaches law and has worked there ever since 2005. Oh. Currently lives in Manhattan with his family. He is an Afro indigenous man who grew up in Oklahoma and is part of [00:09:00] the Seminole Nation, and so grew up there.

[00:09:03] Kelsey: But his original desire to write the book was to create a book with multiracial representation for his children. Mm-hmm. Because his children one take on his, his identity, but also his partners and I believe she's of, of Asian descent.

[00:09:19] Kelsey: And so his children have this beautiful cultural background. Mm-hmm. And he. Found that there was not a lot of books out there. Yeah. With this kind of representation. Mm-hmm. So, that was part of his reason why he wanted to create this book. Moving to Juana Martinez she is originally from Peru and she also had a connection to the book because she felt very stereotyped being from Peru.

[00:09:48] Kelsey: Because when people find out that she's from there, they often speak of llama, speak of Machu Picchu, speak of the Andes. Mm-hmm. And she actually grew up on the beaches [00:10:00] of Peru. Mm-hmm. And it's a very different, like, culture 

[00:10:03] Amanda: Yeah. 

[00:10:03] Kelsey: And upbringing 

[00:10:05] Amanda: mm-hmm. 

[00:10:05] Kelsey: Than what others, kind of notably no Peru four.

[00:10:09] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. And so she was drawn to the manuscript of Fry bread because of those reasons. Mm-hmm. And wanted to bring out Kevin's multi-layered like heritage and the illustrations, which is how we ended up with the drawings in Fry bread, which mm-hmm. I showed Amanda the other day, like the drawings in that book or the illustrations and there were, you know, a wide range of skin tones and hair types that were represented in the book.

[00:10:41] Kelsey: There were lots of different children in the book and all indigenous representation. Mm-hmm. But again, with multiracial backgrounds. Mm-hmm. And this is so common. I mean all around the world, but especially in our indigenous culture. Mm-hmm. Like no one is just [00:11:00] indigenous one. Mm-hmm. Right.

[00:11:01] Kelsey: And that's true for, you know, so many, so many of us. But it's often not talked about, right? Mm-hmm. And so. You could have someone who is very white what is it 

[00:11:13] Amanda: called? White Presenting. Presenting. 

[00:11:15] Kelsey: Thank you. Mm-hmm. Or even black presenting. And they are actually indigenous, right? Mm-hmm. And so we have this

[00:11:21] Kelsey: Very layered culture. Which I think for me personally is just like a beautiful representation of who we are. 

[00:11:28] Amanda: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:29] Kelsey: And I wish that more of us would just take, take that on and mm-hmm. Understand that, you know, we are all indigenous and it doesn't matter exactly what you look like.

[00:11:40] Kelsey: Yeah. Your background just makes you more rich. Mm-hmm. It makes our culture more rich. Moving on to the actual book, surprisingly, it's 42 pages. Oh. That. I was surprised by that. Again, it's a children's book. It has a 4.4 rating on good reads. [00:12:00] I love that.

[00:12:01] Kelsey: And the other reason I wanted to highlight this book, it's funny, I was in Lush the other day, which is this kind of cosmetic place that deems itself like clean ingredients and they had. Fry bread for sale or in the, at the cashier. 

[00:12:19] Amanda: Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:20] Kelsey: And I was like, why do you guys have this here?

[00:12:22] Kelsey: There was another book there too, and I didn't recognize it, so I was mostly focused on Fry bread, but they were like, oh, it's because this is a band book. And so Lush does this thing where they highlight band books in their stores, which is very cool. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And. I was like, really Fried Bread is a banned book.

[00:12:42] Kelsey: 'Cause the way that I read it, it's like this really loving story and just like mm-hmm. Kind of pulls everybody together and it's like accepting of different backgrounds, right? Mm-hmm. And also while highlighting this cultural food that we have been eating for years. Mm-hmm. And, it turns [00:13:00] out that that's threatening to some people.

[00:13:02] Kelsey: Apparently that's, and it's obviously banned in Florida, but it's banned in different parts of the US and it's been deemed not age appropriate. And, I just feel like that's all the more reason to read it. Yeah. And Amanda and I discussed possibly doing lit chats about band books.

[00:13:24] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. Honestly, like it just highlights the books that I want to read when someone bans a book, because I'm like, oh, what's the reasoning? Like, I need to be educated here. So I enjoy reading band books and encourage others. Too as well. But yeah, if you have a little niece or nephew or you have children of your own, this is a wonderful book to incorporate like those themes.

[00:13:49] Kelsey: Yeah. And bring that knowledge to your children. I love that. So I highly recommend this book. 

[00:13:53] Amanda: Yeah. And I, yeah, I love that you're doing a children children's book. A picture book, which you've never done before. Yeah. I think I have two [00:14:00] questions and or thoughts. Oh, okay. One. Do you know more specifically the reason why it was.

[00:14:05] Amanda: Band. 

[00:14:06] Kelsey: Did they, that's all I found was it, it was deemed not age appropriate, which I don't know exactly what that means, but the, that's what I asked the people at Lush too. Yeah. They were like, well, apparently there's this, like one line, and I couldn't remember what the line was. Okay. But it basically talks about.

[00:14:24] Kelsey: Not necessarily stolen land, but it, it's talking about colonization. Oh, right. Okay. So I'm sure that that's part of it's Yeah. 

[00:14:30] Amanda: Yep. I'm sure. 

[00:14:31] Kelsey: But also at the very back, there is some history of Yes, that's right. Fry bread, how it came about, it's, mm-hmm. It's actually not so the history of Fry bread before we move on is that back in the day, right, when native folks were being moved to reservations mm-hmm.

[00:14:48] Kelsey: They were allotted like. Food supplies, right? Mm-hmm. Rations. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And these rations were foods that our people had never seen, never eaten before. And they were [00:15:00] given like flour, sugar, you know, the basics. Mm-hmm. And so then they made a bread out of it and it was this need to create sustenance, right?

[00:15:09] Kelsey: Yeah. Out of the things that they were being given. And so, oh yeah. That's how Fry bread was born. And I do believe that the book itself goes into depth about that history, which is like. Yeah. Yep. 

[00:15:23] Amanda: That, okay, that makes sense. It's not such a history. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't make sense to me, but I can see why pe some people would be like, oh yeah, we don't wanna like admit to this, like, horrible history of colonization.

[00:15:32] Amanda: Right. Like relocating people and, and murder and all of that. Because like Kelsey was saying, we were at the bookstore together yesterday and she actually showed me the book and I was like, looking through it. I'm like, this looks so innocuous. Right. And also great. Yeah. I think my second question was, I dunno if you can speak to this or not, , mm.

[00:15:47] Amanda: Within the , indigenous community. Have you ever encountered or seen or heard of basically colorism or racism happening within the indigenous community because people have multiple heritage. [00:16:00] Heritage. Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay. Yes. I was just curious. Yes, a 

[00:16:02] Kelsey: hundred percent. Okay. , Like I'm actually lighter than some folks.

[00:16:06] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. And I try to embrace getting dark skin in the summer. Mm-hmm. Because some people. In my life made fun of me mm-hmm. For being like more white complected. Mm-hmm. Although no one would ever say I was white. Mm-hmm. Like I was just more light. Yeah. And then I have family members who actually are white.

[00:16:27] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. You know, freckles and all. And then have been. Basically ostracizes from some parts of the community. Yeah. Because of the way they look. Yeah. And no, it's deeply problematic in our community. Yeah. And so again. And like I said, I wish we would embrace that culture and our background and

[00:16:43] Kelsey: who we are as a whole. Yeah. 

[00:16:45] Amanda: I was just curious 'cause obviously that's a thing within the black community as well for sure. Mm-hmm. And I've had the same experience where folks were like, you're so light skinned. Like, it's interesting, I dunno if I told you this, but obviously I was in Tanzania not too long ago and Oh, Uhhuh, I've always had this in interesting [00:17:00] experience whenever I'm traveling in Africa, so, Hmm.

[00:17:02] Amanda: One of the. Students on the trip with me is a student who was born in Ethiopia. Mm-hmm. And then was adopted and raised here by white parents. And so I was chatting with some of the Tanzanian kids. Right. And they were referring to this mm-hmm. Student. They were trying to, I think, figure out how old she was.

[00:17:16] Amanda: Like, oh, you know, the black student who you're traveling with? I was like, oh, she's like, in whatever grade. And then I was like, oh, I'm you know, I'm, I'm black too. And you should have seen the look on their faces. They were like. No, you're not. They literally said that and I was like, no. Like I am black. And they kept pointing to my skin and they were like, no, like you're white and your, your skin isn't black.

[00:17:32] Amanda: And they were like, you have beautiful skin. It's so light. And I was like, like this idea, because, you know, , mixed race folks, especially black and white folks are not a. Thing. Mm-hmm. Right. In Tanzania and in a lot of of African countries. And so there's this very clear line where it's very much based on skin color.

[00:17:48] Amanda: Mm. And they're like, you're the wrong color. You're definitely not. 

[00:17:50] Kelsey: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:17:51] Amanda: You're definitely not black. But even, but no one 

[00:17:53] Kelsey: here would be like, yeah. Amanda's white. 

[00:17:55] Amanda: Right. Exactly. Like, that's never gonna happen. Yeah. But within my own family, you [00:18:00] know, like getting made fun of for being light skinned and not dark enough and all of that.

[00:18:03] Amanda: Yep. Yeah. But I was just curious if that also happened, and it sounds like it does. Yep. In indigenous circles as well. Well, thank you for sharing. I know, I know. It's, but it's like, you know, the wider you are, the better you are. Right. And like, that's just ingrained into. You know, this, this country and this culture.

[00:18:22] Amanda: And then it just leads to so much and 

[00:18:23] Kelsey: apparently throughout the 

[00:18:24] Amanda: world. Throughout the world. Well, hello. Yeah. Written colonized everywhere. Okay, so I'm gonna move on to my first book. It is Real American, a Memoir by Julie Lith. Cott Hames. And Julie is a lot of things. She's an educator. She spent many years working in academia.

[00:18:42] Amanda: She's obviously an author and she's also a politician. She's actually a member of the. Palo Alto City Council. She lives in Palo Alto, California. So she just got kind of, she wears multiple hats. She actually, speaking of Africa, the continent, she was born in Lagos [00:19:00] in Nigeria in 1967, and her dad was African, or is, I should say African American.

[00:19:06] Amanda: Her mom was a white British woman and they moved back to the States when she was young. And so she grew up , all around. She grew up in New York. Wisconsin, Virginia and is quite an academic. She got her BA from Stanford and then got her JD from Harvard Law and then got her MFA in in writing from the California College of the Arts, and then went on to work at Stanford in a variety of roles for almost two decades.

[00:19:33] Amanda: So for 14 years. So. Very smart woman, very intelligent. She's written a couple of books at this point. Her first one was How to Raise An Adult, which was published in 2015, and that was a New York Times bestseller. And then her memoir the book I'll be talking about was published in 2017. And then most recently in T 2021, she

[00:19:57] Amanda: wrote a sort of follow-up book to her first book, which is [00:20:00] called Your Turn, how to Be An Adult. And so she doesn't write clearly fiction. It's all non-fiction kind of self-help books. And I actually, it's really cool. I had the opportunity to see her speak in person to the people of color conference several years ago.

[00:20:16] Amanda: For those who aren't familiar with it, the People of Color Conference is a conference that happens annually where, faculty, staff of color at private schools in the United States and independent schools all kind of gather together once a year. There's workshops and sessions and affinity groups.

[00:20:31] Amanda: It's amazing. Sadly, it was canceled this year for the first time in like 40 plus years because of the political and social climate, which is devastating. 

[00:20:39] Kelsey: Oh my God. Yeah. That's 

[00:20:41] Amanda: a whole other thing. But I did get to see her speak there and it was the reason why I ended up buying this memoir and reading it.

[00:20:48] Amanda: And then lastly, she's married. She has two adult children, and like I said, she lives in California. So, a little bit about her memoir. Like I said, it was published in [00:21:00] 2017 and then in 2018 it won the Penn Oakland. Josephine Miles Literary Award. It's 288 pages and has a 4.42 Good Reads rating.

[00:21:11] Amanda: So quite high. And in addition to it being a story that I very much related to as someone who's both black and white, I appreciated the style of this memoir because it's prose poetry. So she very much is mixing those two forms of writing in a way that I found very engaging and compelling, and gave her a lot of freedom to kind of play around with the language.

[00:21:36] Amanda: And this book is about her quote, experience as a black and biracial person in white spaces, unquote. And. In the course of telling her story and, and sharing about her upbringing, she is really focused on unpacking all of the ways in which the constant stream of insult and microaggressions and racism, kind of the impact [00:22:00] it has on an individual, how it can really just destroy yourself self-esteem cause a, loss of identity, especially as a multiracial person and the steps that she then took to.

[00:22:12] Amanda: Kind of find a place of self-acceptance and a place of community. Mm-hmm. And understanding who she is. And again, I think I like this book not only for how well it was written, but also because it was a story that was a mirror for me. And I love how she so beautifully articulated a lot of the same feelings and sentiments that I experience as mm-hmm.

[00:22:35] Amanda: A biracial person. Of just like not fitting in, never being enough of any one thing to feel fully accepted. Mm. And always feeling like I needed to justify my existence in any space. And like I said, she just gave voice to that in a way that was really moving and made me feel seen. So definitely recommend this book.

[00:22:56] Amanda: Regardless of what your background is, it might be a window for you and give you an [00:23:00] opportunity mm-hmm. To understand what some, you know, biracial and multiracial folks. Are feeling and how the things that you say, even if you don't maybe think that it's insulting or a microaggression. Mm-hmm. Really, in fact is, you know, even asking that.

[00:23:15] Amanda: Ridiculous question. What are you, you know, and as a multiracial person, getting that question on a, a regular basis just chips away at mm-hmm. Your dignity, your self-worth, and makes you feel like no one truly sees you or understands you, and that you're .

[00:23:30] Amanda: Being forced to be reduced to just one thing when you're in fact a multitude of things, right? Even beyond just your race, right? Mm-hmm. So yeah, loved this book. Highly recommended. She was also a great speaker, so if you ever have the opportunity to hear her speak, like also encourage you to do so.

[00:23:45] Kelsey: Great. Cool. My second book, we were debating whether or not this would fit into our theme for this month. But I thought it was an important book to [00:24:00] highlight, which is more of a window for both of us. Mm-hmm. And rather than a mirror. And so I think highlighting those types of books are also just as important.

[00:24:11] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. And, I just I have a lot of respect for this author. And so we'll get into it. So, I'm highlighting The Bastard of Istanbul by aif Shaak. And AIF is a Turkish woman who, and I'll get more into this, was exiled from her country at one point. And then it was resolved in some way, but she like exiled herself, just probably likely due to safety.

[00:24:45] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. But I'll get into as to why in a bit. So she's an author, public speaker, she's an activist. She's a political scientist. She has her PhD I believe in Yeah, in political [00:25:00] science. Oh. And has a master's in Gender and women's studies. And I think she's currently living in the uk away from Turkey still.

[00:25:11] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. And has published. 21 books. Oh 

[00:25:14] Amanda: my God. 

[00:25:15] Kelsey: Yeah. That's crazy. She writes both in Turkish and in English. 

[00:25:20] Amanda: Oh, very cool. 

[00:25:21] Kelsey: I know. She's one of the more famous authors in Turkey.

[00:25:26] Kelsey: Within Turkey, okay. But her books can be controversial for some her books have been translated into 58 languages, one of her books, the 40 Rules of Love, was chosen by B, B, C among the a hundred novels that shaped our world. Whoa. Yeah, she has quite a lot of like recognition. She has done two Ted Talks. She's even written her memoir. And I believe this is a UK recognition. But 10 minutes and 38 seconds in this [00:26:00] strange world was Blackwell's book of the year.

[00:26:03] Kelsey: Nice. And that Amanda is the book I told you about where it's this woman who was murdered and it's the last 10 minutes of her life. Mm-hmm. It sounds so interesting. Yeah, it does. So she often writes about, which you could say controversial. Mostly because it seems that what I understand about Turkey mm-hmm.

[00:26:30] Kelsey: Is that it's a fairly conservative country. Mm-hmm. And moving into the bastard of Istanbul, it highlights, you know, a bastard child. Mm-hmm. That was brought into this world by this I believe youngest sister mm-hmm. Who just was a bit more not, I wouldn't say promiscuous, but like she just, she just wore clothing that didn't cover her up as much as her family would have wanted her to. Mm-hmm. And was often kind of this black sheep in [00:27:00] the family. Mm-hmm. And so she ends up pregnant with this child. And it's the story of this family and the generations of what happened to them, but also in the past.

[00:27:16] Kelsey: It speaks to the genocide that occurred towards the Armenian people in Turkey. And so that is my understanding. It's a kind of a pain point in Turkish history where I. At least in the novel, it's represented in a way where the Turkish don't sort of acknowledge that this genocide happened. They're like, Armenians need to kind of get over it.

[00:27:42] Kelsey: That's how it's portrayed in the novel. 

[00:27:45] Amanda: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:46] Kelsey: And, and the Armenians and Turkish are like very much at odds with one another, and the other believes like, oh, they're so da da dah, they're so da da. Right. And they stay fairly separated. So the, bastard of Stanbul is the, [00:28:00] that daughter and then the other daughter who is of her age and it follows these two mostly.

[00:28:07] Kelsey: And their family generations back. Arm mano, she is Armenian and her father is from Turkey and knows that her family is from Turkey. And she also has a white mother in the United States. And so, it's her story of rediscovering, like her culture and her background, right? Mm-hmm. And so in her discoveries, I won't spoil it, but she just comes to this new understanding of who she is.

[00:28:38] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. And how her family fits into, you know, the history of Turkey and the genocide essentially. Yeah. And while this is a, this is a historical fiction, Amanda. Mm-hmm. I know, I know. And while I, at the time. It was like really hard for me to read because [00:29:00] it was, you know, at times slower paced.

[00:29:02] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. You move to different POVs and I didn't necessarily like all of the POVs. Mm-hmm. And so those would be like slower times for me where I'd be like, okay, like I have to get through this POV to understand what's going on, but I just really enjoyed having that window and understanding more of both the Turkish and Armenian cultures Yeah.

[00:29:23] Kelsey: And identities. And I had no idea this had happened. Right. Yeah. In Turkish history. Mm-hmm. And so it was just this great opportunity for me to see insight into another's world which is why I wanted to, put this in, in and include this book here. Yeah. And author. So that's what it's about.

[00:29:44] Kelsey: And I think you and your book club mm-hmm. Would enjoy this book. It has a 3.88 rating in good reads. So it's like, not like super high, but it's, yeah. It's middle midlevel. Mm-hmm. Right. And I wonder, I'm [00:30:00] curious if I go back and read some of the one and two star reviews , mm-hmm. If it would have folks from Turkey, like, oh, we were just like 

[00:30:07] Amanda: this.

[00:30:07] Amanda: Yeah. 

[00:30:07] Kelsey: Yeah. And so I'm curious what the. The feelings of it are, 

[00:30:11] Amanda: yeah. 

[00:30:12] Kelsey: But this was part of the book that got her sort of exiled, and I don't think I'm using the right word, she wasn't like, officially exiled, but she did a self exile or something like that.

[00:30:23] Kelsey: Okay. Because it highlighted the Armenian genocide. 

[00:30:30] Amanda: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:31] Kelsey: And yeah, I think similar to the United States right. It feels like, oh my gosh, every country has this genocide that was committed. Mm-hmm. And similar to fried bread, people don't wanna talk about the history, 

[00:30:44] Amanda: right. 

[00:30:44] Kelsey: Certain people.

[00:30:45] Kelsey: Exactly. Yeah. They just wanna sweep it under the rug. More tension. Yeah. Yeah. So this book was also banned in Turkey. Oh, okay. And I don't know if it's still banned, but at least at one point it was banned. It's 368 pages, so it's not like super long. [00:31:00] Mm-hmm. , And was published in 2006, so it was an older book.

[00:31:03] Amanda: Yeah. 

[00:31:03] Kelsey: Yeah. So yeah, so I really hope that you, those of you listening at least dive into Shaak and her work. Yeah, because I'm sure she has a book that would be interesting for a wide variety of tastes. 21 books. I was gonna say, especially if 21, 

[00:31:23] Amanda: I'm honestly surprised I haven't. Read her before.

[00:31:25] Amanda: Yeah. 'cause you're the first person who mentioned her. Mm-hmm. To me, you know, all those months ago. Yeah. And I haven't really encountered her before, which is surprising considering how well published she is and the fact that she, yeah. It sounds like she writes books that are very much like up my alley Uhhuh.

[00:31:40] Amanda: But yeah. I love that you chose a book that really. Highlights, that multicultural background, right. With Turkish and Armenian and also American as well, like you mentioned. Mm-hmm. Because I, I think the nice thing so far with this episode and even with my fourth book, is like they each touch on kind of a different.

[00:31:57] Amanda: Multicultural or mul multiracial [00:32:00] background experience. So we really wanted to be mindful of that because there's lots of different ways, right, in which people can have mixed heritage. Mm-hmm. And we want to be as inclusive as possible. 

[00:32:11] Kelsey: So go ahead. There was. Dang it. There was one more thing I wanted to say.

[00:32:15] Kelsey: Not 

[00:32:15] Amanda: lasting. 

[00:32:17] Kelsey: Dang it. 

[00:32:18] Amanda: Okay. Well if you think of it. Oh, oh, I know. Okay, great. 

[00:32:22] Kelsey: So glad. I also wanted to say that the reason why I knew of this author and book was because one of our local bookstores does a monthly, book club and that bookstore is Nook and cranny. So I wanted to give them a shout out.

[00:32:38] Kelsey: They really highlight a wide variety of books. Oh, nice. And genres. Mm-hmm. In their book club. And this was one of them. And this was like last year where I tried to join and I could not finish the book in time. So, eventually I did finish though. 

[00:32:53] Amanda: Nice. Congratulations. Well, it sounds like it was definitely worth it and I need to just like officially put it on my [00:33:00] TBR so that I remember to read it or, or one of her books.

[00:33:02] Amanda: Like any of those sounds, yeah, at least one. Pretty, pretty fascinating. Mm-hmm. Okay, so my last book I. Was originally going with a different book that was focusing on a story that had a, an individual who was indigenous and white. But since Kelsey was doing fry bread, I was like, okay, well, like, let's widen this circle a little bit.

[00:33:21] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And so I'm going to talk about an author who I. Already highlighted before I believe in our A-A-A-P-I heritage Month, which is Celeste ing. The previous book that I highlighted from her was Our Missing Hearts, and today I'm gonna be talking about the book everything I never Told You.

[00:33:37] Amanda: So if you tuned into our A API episode. You're gonna already know the information that I'm gonna share about Celeste. So you can feel free to skip this part if you want to. If you didn't listen to the A API episode, I'm just gonna give you a quick rundown of who she is. Not go into as much detail as I did the first time, but do encourage you to, to do your own research because she's pretty cool [00:34:00] and I have read all of her books and really enjoy them.

[00:34:04] Amanda: But she, is a New York Times bestselling author and has only written three novels, so not as prolific as a leaf. But the books that she has written are great, and like I said, I've read all of them, really enjoyed them. She also writes short stories as well, and her work has appeared in the New York Times, the Guardian, a lot of other publications.

[00:34:25] Amanda: She's a very highly awarded. Or artist, I guess as a writer, you art artist, but author, writer she's won the Pushkar Prize. She's gotten a fellowship from Guggenheim and from the National Endowment for the Arts among many other. Authors honors, I'm sorry. And one of the things I also love about her is she is also from Ohio.

[00:34:47] Amanda: Lucky. She was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, but grew up in Shaker Heights, and that's where my great aunt and uncle lived, been up there many times and so love that. We're, we're fellow Ohioans. She's [00:35:00] really been into writing since she was a young person. She was the co-editor of her high school's literary magazine and then went, went on to get her.

[00:35:08] Amanda: Bachelor's in English from Harvard and her MFA from the University of Michigan. And similar to Julie, she also spent some time working in academia. She then went on to teach writing at the University of Michigan. She's written three books. Everything I never told you. The one I'm gonna be talking about today was her first novel, which was published in 2014.

[00:35:29] Amanda: And fun fact, it took her six years to write it. And honestly, I feel like I've ever wrote a book. It would take me that long as well, right? I just can't focus for long stretching time. Time, especially your first 

[00:35:40] Kelsey: book, especially your 

[00:35:41] Amanda: first one, right? Like you really wanna get it right because you don't have like.

[00:35:43] Kelsey: Yeah. And you don't have like a publisher and all of those things, like, and you're like 

[00:35:48] Amanda: just figuring out your process, right? Yeah. Like what works for you. 

[00:35:51] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:51] Amanda: That book went on to win a bunch of awards. It was a New York Times bestseller. It was a notable book for the New York Times, Amazon's number one best book of [00:36:00] 2014, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:36:02] Amanda: And also went on to be translated into over. 30 languages and is currently being adapted into a movie or so. I've been told I think her most popular book is Little Fires Everywhere, which was published in 2017 and was made into a miniseries on Hulu in 2020. And then she also wrote our Missing Hearts as well.

[00:36:23] Amanda: So I'm gonna be focusing today, like I said, on everything I never told you. Published in June of 2014 is 297 pages, so a fairly quick book to get through. And also not like a crazy high rating on Good Reads, but like, like Kelsey was saying, kind of middle of the road. It's a 3.84 Good Reads rating, but it was nominated on Good Reads for readers favorite debut author in 2014, which is pretty cool, and I'm sure was a great honor for her, like getting her first book out there and getting nominated for that.

[00:36:55] Amanda: So as with a lot of her stories, it's set in [00:37:00] Ohio, small town, Ohio. You know, she writes what she knows, which is great. I think that's like often what you should do as an author, and it focuses on this interracial family in the 1970s. So it is also historical fiction. Mm-hmm. So the dad James is a Chinese American.

[00:37:16] Amanda: His parents were immigrants from China. And the mom Marilyn is white. And so they obviously have biracial children and it's really interesting because they have three kids. There's the older brother whose name I'm blanking on, there's Lydia, who's the first daughter, and then Hannah is the youngest daughter.

[00:37:35] Amanda: And. Obviously being in a small town in the 1970s in Ohio and being biracial, right, Asian and white mm-hmm. Was difficult. And again, trying to navigate and find your space, but also having parents who have kind of different expectations for you based on their own backgrounds. Right. So the mom's white and she's a, you know, a homemaker essentially, and mm-hmm.

[00:37:59] Amanda: [00:38:00] She has high expectations for Lydia. Lydia's the favorite child. And they kind of like, oh, have no qualms about making that pretty clear to, to everyone. And so the mom's expectation for her daughter as a woman is like, I want you to become a doctor. Right? Go out there and be a career woman, you know?

[00:38:18] Amanda: Pursue your education and the dad's focus, especially because he's Chinese American, he just wants her to be popular and well-liked and accepted and kinda this social butterfly. And obviously he wants that because his lived experience is one in which he constantly is facing racism and micro and macroaggressions and, and isn't accepted in this small town.

[00:38:42] Amanda: And Lydia also. Faces issues around, which happens to a lot of multiracial people where you get like. Exoticized and like fetishized where it's like, oh, she has this dark black hair like her dad, but has her mother's blue eyes. And so yeah, there's this weird like [00:39:00] objectification that can often happen with multiracial people.

[00:39:04] Amanda: And so essentially the, the gist of the book, the premise of this book is that Lydia goes missing and then, and turns up dead. And that's not a spoiler by any means. You know that pretty quickly. Mm-hmm. And so , the book follows. This family and the aftermath of this is they try to figure out what happened and grapple with the loss of like their golden child.

[00:39:25] Amanda: And so as it says on Good Reads, this book is quote all about secrets, love, longing, lies, and race unquote. And I found it to be really moving. And again, as somebody who grew up in Ohio as a biracial person. Mm-hmm. Although I'm not Asian and white, I think a lot of the experiences, , were very similar.

[00:39:45] Amanda: Mm. And so in some ways it was a mirror. In some ways it was a window. Yeah. And I think tying also like that immigrant experience into it as well coming to this country and, and wanting so desperately the father to be accepted and to, to find ways to [00:40:00] assimilate as quickly as possible. Mm-hmm. But continuing to feel like you're never gonna be American enough.

[00:40:05] Amanda: You know, you're never gonna be fully welcomed. Yeah. And, and then what it means as a child navigating this world where you're, you know, half this and half that. Mm-hmm. And have parents who. Perceive the role differently and want different things for you. So really compelling, really complex story. There's obviously a mystery at the heart of it as you're trying to figure out what exactly happened and why.

[00:40:26] Amanda: Mm-hmm. And of course like underlying all of this is that tension around and race and identity. So yeah. Yeah, just a really. Thoughtful book and again, very much informed by her own lived experiences, even though she's not herself multiracial. Obviously a lot of what she was able to speak to, connected to growing up Asian, right?

[00:40:46] Amanda: Mm-hmm. In, in Ohio. And so, yeah, I, again, another book by her that I recommend. There's a reason why I keep recommending her. 

[00:40:55] Kelsey: Are you gonna recommend the third one at some 

[00:40:57] Amanda: point? Have you read all of them? I mean, I, I've read [00:41:00] all of them and I, I feel like little fires everywhere. A lot of people know it already from watching the miniseries.

[00:41:07] Amanda: Okay. But if you like the miniseries, you'd like the book. I think it did a pretty good job of sticking to it. 

[00:41:12] Kelsey: Mm-hmm. But you 

[00:41:12] Amanda: can't go wrong with any of her books, so Cool. 

[00:41:15] Kelsey: Yeah. Well, great. Thank you. You're 

[00:41:18] Amanda: welcome. So yeah, do we wanna just quickly as always recap? 

[00:41:22] Kelsey: Yeah. Great. My two books were Fry Breaded, native American Family Story by Kevin Noble, Millard, and illustrated by Juana Martinez Neil.

[00:41:34] Kelsey: And the second recommendation was the Bastard of It Istanbul by Ale Shaak. 

[00:41:41] Amanda: Awesome. And my two were real American, a memoir by Julie Lithco, Hames, and everything I never told you by Celeste ing. So yeah, if you check those out, let us know if you definitely have already read them and love them. Oh yeah.

[00:41:56] Amanda: Let us know if you didn't like them, let us know as well. Like we, we like to hear lots of [00:42:00] different opinions. And then as always, on Thursday, if you're on our socials, we will be asking you guys. For your recommendations for books and authors Yeah. That celebrate multiracial and multicultural backgrounds.

[00:42:12] Amanda: So please be sure to, to follow us if you're not, as Kelsey said at the beginning, we are on Instagram at Lit Vibes only podcast. Mm-hmm. And we are on TikTok and YouTube at Lit Vibes only podcast. So make sure that you're following us and getting all those updates, notifications so you know what's happening.

[00:42:30] Amanda: Yeah. Over there on our platforms. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. As always, take a moment to rate and review us. This is a great episode actually, especially on Spotify to leave a comment 'cause you can let us know again. Mm-hmm What your own recommendations are, what you thought about the books that we recommended. So please be sure to take a moment to do that if you haven't already.

[00:42:54] Amanda: But yeah, thanks for hanging out with us once again guys, and we'll see you next Monday. [00:43:00]

[00:43:00] Kelsey: See ya. 

[00:43:01] Amanda: Bye 

[00:43:01] Kelsey: bye.