Ep. 30: Lit It Or Quit It: A Court of Mist and Fury by Sarah J. Maas

Join Kelsey and Amanda as they dive into 'A Court of Mist and Fury,' discussing the romantic and traumatic journeys of Feyre, Tamlin, and Rhysand while hilariously addressing fan-favorite quotes, character transformations, and of course, the saucy moments that had readers swooning and critiquing.

00:00 Introduction and Social Media Plugs

03:20 Summary of 'A Court of Mist and Fury’

14:32 Book Discussion

49:50 Final Recommendations

51:07 LITerally the Best or LITerally the Worst

Follow us on TikTok & Youtube @litvibesonlypodcast and on Instagram @litvibesonly_podcast. We'd love to hear from you!

See you on Mondays!

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Social Media Plugs
• 3:20 Summary of 'A Court of Mist and Fury’
• 14:32 Book Discussion
• 49:50 Final Recommendations
• 51:07 LITerally the Best or LITerally the Worst

Transcript

Ep. 30: Lit It or Quit It: A Court of Mist and Fury
===

[00:00:00] 

[00:00:03] Kelsey: Welcome to Lit Vibes Only, where we lit the shit out of books we love and hate. I'm Kelsey. 

[00:00:10] Amanda: And I'm Amanda. And welcome to a bonus episode as we continue our conversation about the iQatar series with 

[00:00:18] Kelsey: booktube. Oh my god. God excited. I'm so excited. 

[00:00:23] Amanda: But before we get to that, as always, we want to remind all of you where you can find us on socials.

[00:00:28] Amanda: So we are an Instagram at lit vibes, only underscore podcast. And we are also on Tik TOK and on YouTube at lit vibes only podcast. So be sure to check us out there. Come say, Hey, and also I always forget to say this. Don't forget to keep rating and reviewing us. On whatever podcast platform you're listening to us on, we are still a growing podcast and those , ratings and those comments and, , that feedback really helps us get seen by other folks.

[00:00:57] Kelsey: Absolutely does. Oh yeah. 

[00:00:58] Amanda: Please, please do [00:01:00] that. , otherwise buckle up because we're about to get into. A court of mist and fury. I'm so 

[00:01:08] Kelsey: excited. 

[00:01:09] Amanda: So much happened in this book. It's longer than the first one. And like, just, there was a lot and just more happens and a lot more happened, a lot more world building and just exploring what else is out there, which, , yeah, we'll, we'll get to in a second.

[00:01:25] Amanda: , I guess. At this point, you don't need to tell everyone why you recommended this book for me, because we're already like in it. 

[00:01:31] Kelsey: Well, I was also going to say too, you kind of pushed yourself to read it. And I wasn't like, Oh my God, Amanda, read it, read it, read it, read it. And you were like, I'm going to get into the next book.

Yes, but you had established a while ago that you were going to make me read the whole series. No one said now, Amanda. That's true. 

[00:01:51] Amanda: I will. But like I said. With me in series, I have to like keep going with them cause I forget stuff and that drives me crazy. So if I'm going to do the thing, I'm just going to [00:02:00] like plow through and get it done and not come back to it after like three 

[00:02:03] Kelsey: months.

[00:02:04] Kelsey: Does that mean you're going to read the next one soon? 

[00:02:07] Amanda: Probably. I would say within like the next month or so. I think is what it is. I actually don't know what the next one is. What is it? 

[00:02:13] Kelsey: I think it's ACOWAR. What does that stand 

[00:02:16] Amanda: for? Of war and fury. 

[00:02:19] Kelsey: Yes. Thank you. No, , wings and runes. Sorry. I was like, yeah, no wings and runes, but yeah, it's okay.

[00:02:27] Amanda: Okay. I think you'll like 

[00:02:28] Kelsey: that one too. Or I think you might like it more than this one. 

[00:02:32] Amanda: Well, it's a war book, right? Yeah. Okay. So I probably, so far my experiences of these books, now that I've read two, it's gotten better. 

[00:02:43] Kelsey: Huh. So I guess 

[00:02:45] Amanda: hopefully. So 

[00:02:47] Kelsey: before we go too much further, Amanda, your very brief lit it or quit it.

[00:02:53] Amanda: Oh, , this would be a I would say a soft lit it. [00:03:00] How did I see this coming? I, probably because we chatted a little bit about it. But, , I gave it three stars, which is something coming from me for a romantic book. And of course I'll get into why later. But yeah, I would say it was a soft lit it. Soft lit it.

[00:03:18] Amanda: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll leave it at that.

[00:03:20] Kelsey: All right, well, are you ready for this summary? 

[00:03:23] Amanda: Oh God. Beast of a summary, honestly. So, , I'll help you out if 

[00:03:27] Kelsey: you need . 

[00:03:27] Amanda: Thank you. , we're not, again, listeners, we're not gonna get into the nitty gritty. If you are listening to this bonus episode, we are making the assumption that you have read this book and so want to , just hear us chat about it.

[00:03:37] Amanda: Yeah. So, , if you haven't read the book, highly recommend that you go do that and come back and listen. So this is the second book in the series, and it starts off essentially. With, , Thera and Tamlin back at the spring court. trying to rebuild their lives post Amarantha. And it's clear that Feyre is very much suffering from like [00:04:00] PTSD from everything that happened under the mountain in the first book.

[00:04:04] Amanda: And it's just really kind of struggling to get her life back together. And, , Tamlin for his part is, you know, trying to get things back in order in the spring court is still in love, very much in love with Farah. And the plan is to get married. So we're like, we find them essentially planning their wedding at the beginning of the book.

[00:04:21] Amanda: , and there's also a new character introduced, which I Kelsey, you'll have to help me with the pronunciation. I am. She is a high priestess. And at the beginning of the book, she's essentially like Farah's right hand woman. She's really helping her with like all of the household and domestic things that need to be done and prepping for the wedding and entertaining, high Faye who have come to, celebrate, et cetera, but there is not happy.

[00:04:48] Amanda: So fast forward essentially to the wedding day. And Feyre essentially freaks out. She's like walking down the aisle and she's just like, I don't want to be here. Someone please save me. [00:05:00] She's saying all of this internally. In 

[00:05:01] Kelsey: her head. 

[00:05:02] Amanda: In her head. If you remember from the end of the last book or from the last book, she has this bond with Rhys, with Rhysand.

[00:05:10] Amanda: And he essentially hears her call for help through their bond and shows up at the wedding and takes her away to the night court. And. , she shows up at the night court. She's not happy to be there. She didn't want to get married, but she also didn't necessarily want to get kidnapped by a resend.

[00:05:28] Amanda: So they, , kind of fall back into their pattern of behavior from the first book where they're just kind of a reminded. Well, okay. I won't, I won't, I won't get my commentary yet, but there's definitely that kind of still building sexual tension, but they kind of hate each other. , it reminded me a lot of the enemies lovers trope with Tamlin in favor.

[00:05:49] Amanda: And the first one we're like, they don't like to begin with. So that kind of was repeated again. Anyhow, she's there. And while she's there, she meets another character, Morgan was resounds [00:06:00] cousin, and it becomes clear as far as hanging out in the night court that, , reSand is worried about something and.

[00:06:07] Amanda: , it comes to light that he is concerned that the King of Highburn is in the process of essentially getting ready to launch an attack on Prithian and basically continue the work that Amarantha had started. And so he is all about prepping essentially for war. And it doesn't seem like any of the other courts are kind of tuned into this, or if they are, they're not concerned or they're perhaps siding with the King of Highburn.

[00:06:34] Amanda: So, , they read, she spent kind of the first portion of the book, kind of zipping back and forth between, , the spring court and the night court. And what finally pushes her over the edge is that Tamlin refuses to let Feyre go out into the world. She's under lock and key at the spring court and she's going stir crazy.

[00:06:54] Amanda: And he literally locks her in the house at one point and that she just loses [00:07:00] it. So at that point, once again, Rhysand, no, not Rhysand, sorry, Morrigan shows up and carries her off. And, , they're, united with Rhysand and they all go back to the night court together. And at that point, she's pretty much done with Tamlin, , and his controlling ways.

[00:07:18] Amanda: And that's when Thera is introduced to like Rhysand's inner circle. So we have And Yes. Go ahead. Velaris. Oh, Volaris. Yes. Which is amazing. It's like this beautiful, well preserved city that was not ravaged at all by the horrors of Amaranth. Amaranth. , and she's just like starstruck quite literally it's beautiful.

[00:07:44] Amanda: And so she discovers this beautiful city and while she's there, like I said, she meets Amaranth. Yes. Yes. , restands inner circle and that includes, , a couple other bad boys. So, , there's Cassian and Azrael, is that how you say it? Azrael. Azrael. Morgan, like I [00:08:00] mentioned, and then Amren, who's like this thousands year old beast, but in the, in the body of like a high fay.

[00:08:06] Amanda: , and we don't know exactly how she came to be, but she's there as well. So that's his inner circle and I don't know, I really, yeah, okay, I got to stop with the commentary. So she, she like, she meets them and she's like, Oh my gosh, like ultimately they become like her found family. And essentially they are all now working together to stop the King of Highburn.

[00:08:28] Amanda: They figure out that, that the King of Highburn. Has the body parts of durian, which you'll remember from the first book that amaranth had. So the eyeball and like the finger bone, I think, and he is working to resurrect. this general to help him in this upcoming war that he's trying to, to begin. And so they're obviously very concerned about this and they are told to go seek out this creature called the Bone Carver.

[00:08:55] Amanda: And the Bone Carver essentially confirms that yes, the King of Highburn can [00:09:00] resurrect Jurien using the powers of the cauldron and the only way that they can stop him is by finding this book called the Book of Breathings and that would like nullify his ability to resurrect Jurien and get this whole thing started.

[00:09:16] Amanda: So they get this information and they realize that the book of breathings, let me see if I can remember this, the book of readings is like, there's, there are like two parts of it. 

[00:09:25] Kelsey: Huh. 

[00:09:26] Amanda: One part is with the, the mortal Queens.

[00:09:29] Amanda: Like I think are there six, there's six, yeah, there's six mortal Queens. I believe. I actually don't 

[00:09:34] Kelsey: remember. 

[00:09:35] Amanda: Okay. But yeah, there's a 

[00:09:37] Kelsey: handful. , 

[00:09:38] Amanda: there's a handful. And then who has the other part? Oh, , the, the other court, , summer court. Tar. Tar, yeah. Tarquin or Autumn 

[00:09:44] Kelsey: Court? 

[00:09:45] Amanda: No, it's summer. It Summer. I think it's summer.

[00:09:46] Amanda: It's summer. Is it Tarquin? Tarkin? How do you say? Yes. 

[00:09:48] Kelsey: Tarquin. Tarquin. Tarquin. Yes. 

[00:09:50] Amanda: So they basically have to go and get both of these parts of the book and put it together. Mm-hmm . And so this leads them back intense to the [00:10:00] mortal world because they have to talk with the Mortal Queens. And so in order to do that, they're like, Hey, thera, well, you're.

[00:10:06] Amanda: Mortal ish, and you have sisters who live in the mortal world. And so like, let's go to your old house and have the Queens come and meet us there. And we'll like work on this exchange and get the book from them. So that's, , another portion of the book where you're introduced to additional characters.

[00:10:21] Amanda: These mortal Queens who. Ultimately, we're like, screw you. We're not going to give you our part of the book. And they're like, okay, we're going to have to figure something else out. , in the meantime, , they're also trying to figure out a way to steal the book from the summer court. So Feyre and Rhysand and Amron, I believe are the three that go to the summer court.

[00:10:42] Amanda: They hang out with Tarquin, who honestly seems like a really good dude. Anyhow. And they, , long story short. They are successful in stealing the book from Tarquin. There is some guilt about it because he is a good guy and they feel kind of bad, like blindsiding. I think 

[00:10:56] Kelsey: Feyre feels bad. 

[00:10:58] Amanda: Yeah, I guess [00:11:00] he does.

[00:11:01] Amanda: Cause he said, you remember he says like he did want to like build a 

[00:11:05] Kelsey: good relationship with him. Yeah. Yeah. So 

[00:11:07] Amanda: there's some, like, there's some guilt there. , they steal the book. They, Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Can I 

[00:11:11] Kelsey: pause you after this? Also in the background of all of this, right? ReSand and Feyre are building this relationship, 

but 

[00:11:18] Kelsey: then also Feyre is learning to fight and she's learning to use her powers that have manifested.

[00:11:26] Kelsey: And so that's just an important plug to make sure everyone's keeping. That in line. That's very important. And 

[00:11:31] Amanda: also because if you remember from the first book, she was brought back to life by all of the seven high Fae Lords. And so she has all of their powers, which is crazy. So she's like this super powerful being at this point.

[00:11:43] Amanda: , so, , yeah, so , they escaped from the summer court., they barely survived. They're saved by this water wraith who they had helped earlier in the book. , and so now. They are like, okay, well now we have to get to high burn because we need to use this book , to stop the [00:12:00] King before that happens.

[00:12:01] Amanda: , there's a moment where Feyre and Rhysand are out in the woods, essentially training and while they're out, Rhysand is, , attacked while they're together. But he's the one who gets like shot up with a bunch of arrows from people who are like pro high burn pro durian and essentially.

[00:12:20] Amanda: They are a saves his life. So there's like that whole lovely moment, but to speed things along as we're heading towards the end, essentially, , the inner circle, they all go to hybrid. They have the book. Now they did end up getting the, , second half of the book from the Queens, because one of the younger Queens betrayed the other Queens and like secretly left the book, , with, , re sand and Farah.

[00:12:42] Amanda: And so they have both parts of the book. They go to Highburn, , while they are there, they realize that they have been betrayed by Tamlin and Lucian who have aligned themselves with the King of Highburn in order to get favor back from Rhysand. Obviously, they're [00:13:00] still smarting about the fact that, , Pharaoh was taken, you know, against her will, quote unquote, by Rhysand.

[00:13:06] Amanda: So big shocker there. Long story short, they are able to escape, but, and this is like a really important point when they're at this whole castle of the King of Highburn, they realized that there are two other individuals who are also there in that moment. And that is Elaine and Nesta, , who are fair sisters.

[00:13:26] Amanda: And in the process of the ending of the book unfolding, they are transformed into fairies, our Fae as well. 

[00:13:33] Kelsey: Yeah. 

[00:13:34] Amanda: , and. , that happens because the mortal Queens are there in that moment to basically everybody shows up at the end. It's like a huge party at the King of Highlands palace. And essentially, , they want immortality and he's like, Hey, I can make you fail like us, but let me make Elaine and Nesta Fay and show you how the cauldron can do this.

[00:13:53] Amanda: So you trust that it's safe and it'll work. And so Elaine and Nesta become Fay, , [00:14:00] They're basically sacrifices herself and goes off with Tamlin back to the spring court in order to make sure that the rest of the folks can escape and go back to the night court. And that's essentially where the book ends with, , Farah essentially working as a spy in the spring court.

[00:14:16] Amanda: She's acting like she's back in 

[00:14:17] Kelsey: the spring court 

[00:14:17] Amanda: and really did kidnap her and she's so grateful to be back with Tamlin when in fact she's channeling information from the spring court. Back to the Night Court via her bond with Rhysand. And that is kind of it. We'll 

[00:14:32] Kelsey: see in the next book, won't we? Yes. We shall see.

[00:14:36] Kelsey: Two important things. Yes. Please add more. That at the very end, we find out that Rhysand and Feyre. , you know, they, , did you, you didn't talk about, yeah, you didn't talk about them being mated. , that's important. You just suddenly skipped over that part of it. We'll discuss it, we'll discuss it, , in more in depth.

[00:14:59] Kelsey: , they are [00:15:00] mated and at some point in the book, you know, favor, it does accept that bond. And then, , at the very end, she is made high lady of the night court. 

[00:15:08] Amanda: And 

[00:15:09] Kelsey: that's never 

[00:15:10] Amanda: happened before. 

[00:15:11] Kelsey: And that's never happened before. And no one knew about it because it was done the night before they left for high burn.

, 

[00:15:16] Kelsey: But before we get into that, what were your favorite things about this book or the things that you enjoy?

[00:15:23] Amanda: , Yeah, so obviously. I enjoyed getting to see more of the world, , and exploring outside of, , favors old kind of Hamlet where she grew up in the mortal world and outside of the spring court. So getting to explore the night court was very cool. And learning more about, like, the Illyrian warriors and seeing Velaris, and also just learning more about the other parts of the world, right, beyond Prithian and what was happening in Highburn and even out, I guess, trying to get my directions right, out east on, like, the larger, I guess, continent, , was very cool.

[00:15:57] Amanda: , so I appreciated the world building in this [00:16:00] book. , I personally like Reese better than Tamlin. So I liked the fact that he was in this more. And honestly, I know it's cheesy, but I did like the playful flirtiness between Rezan and Feyre, like, I thought it was cute and funny and they're like,

[00:16:20] Amanda: quips and banter. , I, I enjoyed that. So that was good. And I really, really, really, really loved, well, two more things. I loved the inner circle, like , it reminded me. So growing up, I read a lot of like, Comic books with my brothers, like Justice League and like the Avengers. And so that dynamic, that group dynamic of people working together against an evil force, very much love.

[00:16:45] Amanda: And I really loved the dynamic of that group. And, , so they were all very cool. And then, , I think for me, and I mentioned this in the first book with ACOTAR, I'm a huge fan of especially , in like [00:17:00] fairy settings and fantasy settings, like when people have to go through certain trials. And this book is just like a series of that, right?

[00:17:08] Amanda: There's like the bone carver, there's the Weaver, there's trying to steal the book from the summer court. And so I appreciated like those kinds of mini adventures along the way. And I found those a lot more compelling and interesting than like the smutty parts, which weren't too bad in this book, but, 

[00:17:25] Kelsey: , they made sense.

[00:17:25] Kelsey: Sense in this book and we're just like, 

[00:17:30] Amanda: , so yeah, those were some of the things I liked. 

[00:17:33] Kelsey: I thought you were going to say you loved the one bed trope. 

[00:17:38] Amanda: I was, I was waiting for it because you had mentioned that a while ago that it was coming. I was like, Oh my gosh. And then when they got to the end, I was like, yeah, this is it.

[00:17:46] Amanda: This is, this is, this is happening. , I also, this is like kind of a tangent, but it connects to that. So Cassian and Azrael, so they all have wings, but Cassian and Azrael can never make their wings disappear, [00:18:00] but Rhysand 

[00:18:01] Kelsey: can. 

[00:18:02] Amanda: Okay. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. 

[00:18:05] Kelsey: Yes. 

[00:18:06] Amanda: Okay. 

[00:18:06] Kelsey: I don't know why. I can't remember why.

[00:18:08] Kelsey: Okay. 

[00:18:09] Amanda: The reason why I'm asking you, because when you mentioned the one bed trope, I was like, one of the things in that scene, he was like, Oh yeah, there's not that much space for me and my wings. I'm like, but you can make your wings disappear, make them disappear and like, do whatever you need to do.

[00:18:21] Amanda: Like, I don't know. That was just, that was a plot hole for me or not even a plot hole, but just like a little loophole. And I was like, that doesn't make any sense, 

[00:18:28] Kelsey: but he didn't want his wings to disappear, 

[00:18:30] Amanda: but if you're in this, okay. I don't know. Okay, Kelsey.

[00:18:39] Amanda: That's what I liked. There you go. 

[00:18:41] Kelsey: Great. Great. , were there many, , criticisms you had of the book? , 


[00:18:45] Amanda: I think it's obviously I'm still not a fan of the spot. Like for me, it's like it. was better than the first book because I found her scenes. I mean, there are some like sex scenes with Tamlin, but, , they kind of, 

[00:18:58] Kelsey: unfortunately, 

[00:18:59] Amanda: yeah, they kind [00:19:00] of, I didn't like those in the first book. I didn't really like them in this book, but the ones with re sand were better.

[00:19:04] Amanda: And. I felt like I mentioned in another episode that we did, I do enjoy kind of the slow burn and like the building of tension. Like I very much prefer that versus like, okay, like here's the actual act itself. Like I don't really get a whole lot out of that. And so I liked that this book took its time to get there.

[00:19:22] Amanda: And so when it did happen, I was like, okay, like you've kind of earned it, I guess. I still don't necessarily want to read about it, but like, it doesn't bother me as much. , This is like a tiny criticism and I under, and it's not even, I don't know, I don't know if it's valid either.

[00:19:39] Kelsey: , 

[00:19:39] Kelsey: but, it 

[00:19:40] Amanda: kind of, bothers me and, and it's not even just in fantasy books really, but like, 

[00:19:44] Kelsey: I think I know what you're going to 

[00:19:45] Amanda: say. Oh, I don't know, but everyone is beautiful. Oh, and it kind of drives me crazy a little bit. Like they're all just like these exquisite pieces of humanity. And I know it's fantasy, so it's supposed to be above and [00:20:00] beyond our like normal everyday experience, but it always just kind of, I don't know.

[00:20:05] Amanda: And this is a me thing. It just takes me out of it a little bit. I'm like, we get it. You're all just stunningly Painfully, like fantastically gorgeous. And everyone is like literally everyone. Well, not the King 

[00:20:19] Kelsey: of Highburn. 

[00:20:21] Amanda: I mean, but it's just like all of the main characters are, and it just, I don't know, it's a little bit of an eye roll for me.

[00:20:28] Amanda: It's not a huge thing, but I don't know. It just, it just bothers me. I'm like, can't somebody have like a little pooch or some stretch marks or something, or like they're having a breakout. They're 

[00:20:37] Kelsey: having a breakout. Some 

[00:20:42] Amanda: realness here. Yeah. That's the whole point. Yeah. I understand it's fantasy. It's supposed to be like that.

[00:20:48] Amanda: But it just, that's a little thing. , I am trying to think what else I didn't like. There really honestly wasn't a lot that I didn't like about this book. , 

[00:20:55] Kelsey: it's just not your preferred style. 

[00:20:59] Amanda: Yeah. I mean, [00:21:00] for me, I, I, like I said before, I do turn off my brain a little bit when I'm reading romanticy because I know if I am like being kind of as critical as I am of other things I read and like looking for certain things that they're not going to be there and I'll get frustrated.

[00:21:15] Amanda: But if I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is just supposed to be completely mindless, but this is just supposed to be fun and fantastical and entertaining and entertaining, then Then it's fine. And if I use my thriller brain, the brain that I use when I read thriller books, where it's just like, Oh, this is just fun.

[00:21:32] Amanda: but yeah, there's, there was nothing glaring where it was like, Oh my God, I absolutely hated this. , I do think perhaps there are parts of the book that could have been tightened up. A bit like I was kind of annoyed at first about the going back and forth between the spring and the night court with Farah and Reese.

[00:21:47] Amanda: And I was like, okay, how many times it only happens 

[00:21:49] Kelsey: twice, right? 

[00:21:50] Amanda: I feel like it's three times. 

[00:21:54] Kelsey: I'm pretty sure it's only twice. And then she's like with them. 

[00:21:58] Amanda: Oh, maybe I think it [00:22:00] was just because the second time was such a repeat of the first time. And I was like, okay, we've done this. We've done this song and dance before.

[00:22:05] Amanda: You know, it's like the same exact thing happened again. , but I get it. And it wasn't a huge, a huge issue for me. , I do have to say, and I texted this to you, Kelsey, like, I felt so justified when Miriam showed up and I was like, I knew it. I knew Sarah J. Maas nichening Jurian's human whore.

[00:22:23] Amanda: It was going to come back. And it was Miriam. And I was like, yes, I'm not crazy. Like there's a reason that like came up multiple times. Yes, you're correct. Yes, yes, yes, yes. , oh, and the other thing I'll say too, this is like, Another little tangent, but I know I've made several comments and previous episodes about.

[00:22:40] Amanda: Like, why do the guys in these books always smell like, you know, bits of nature or whatever? Yes. And this was the first book that I read. I mean, this is only like the third romance book I read, but, , where there was a female character , it was Morgan.

[00:22:53] Amanda: She was described as smelling, , of citrus and cinnamon. Okay. [00:23:00] So I guess she's at least like leveling the playing field and like everyone gets described this way, but I thought that was funny. Anyhow. Okay, so I guess I do have one other thing and then I'll stop rattling on and on. 

[00:23:12] Kelsey: , Hey, tell me 

[00:23:13] Amanda: I don't know how believable like Tamlin's descent into, I mean, he essentially He's so abusive and controlling in this book. And part of me, I'm kind of on the fence. I'm like, , is this a believable, kind of, , what's the word I'm looking for? Kind of next step continuation from the first book or was it ratcheted up a bit too high?

[00:23:38] Amanda: And I'm not sure. And I, that came across that in some of the reviews. , I mean, obviously I had an issue with him in the first book and I talked about that in our first episode where I was like, yeah, he is. Hmm. Like violent and controlling. And like, there's like elements of like creepy kind of domestic abuse happening or domestic violence happening.

[00:23:53] Amanda: And obviously it came out on full force in this book. And so yeah. I don't know quite where I fall off. I'm like, yeah, [00:24:00] that seems that tracks with who he is or like. Sarah J. Mass leaned into it a little bit too hard just to make re sand look better and kind of really get us on board with like shipping re sand and I don't know, but that was something that came up for me.

[00:24:14] Amanda: But yeah, Tamlin in this book was just like a hot fucking mess. Yeah. And really kind of terrifying. . 

[00:24:20] Kelsey: Well, if you also think about it, Feyre was a hot mess too. And they were both struggling with what happened under the mountain, right? Yeah. And he had zero control over what was going on under there and I think probably felt that Very deeply, right?

[00:24:38] Kelsey: And so probably has, we, we would never get Tamlin's like point of view, but I imagine that he has like a lot of grief and a lot of regret over how he responded. And the fact that he just didn't do anything. He's he's a human, right? Or Faye, you know what I mean? , so I imagine that he's dealing and grappling with all of that.

[00:24:58] Kelsey: And so both of [00:25:00] them dealing with their trauma in very different ways. Like Farah she's just having these panic attacks and things right over the smallest details, , that remind her of under the mountain. And then Tamlin is just trying to reassert his dominance and like control over situations, which I could see.

[00:25:15] Kelsey: , yeah. And that makes sense to me, but I could see why you would feel like that. But yeah, I think there needed to be also as a plot device, right. That just juxtaposition between Tamlin and Reese, for you to want to. Yeah. Go in the direction of Reese and like the love story of Reese and Feyre. 

[00:25:34] Amanda: Cause I mean, , I agree.

[00:25:36] Amanda: I think he's definitely overcompensating at this point because he's like, I had no control and now I do. And I'm going to fully lean into the fact that I can't protect you and I can't take these measures to make sure that you're safe, but it's overkill. 

[00:25:46] Kelsey: But we also did see some of that in the first book.

[00:25:49] Kelsey: We did. Where he like loses control. Like that's very much Tamlin esque character characterization. And so, , yeah, it's really interesting, but. 

[00:25:58] Amanda: It's. It's also [00:26:00] interesting to like, one of the things that came up, I was just thinking about Tamlin and cause obviously we, we read fourth wing rather recently and he reminds me of Dane and that I think he also is such a rule follower, like even with like him, , imposing like the tithe on his people when it's not really necessary and like other courts don't.

[00:26:19] Amanda: And he's like, no, this is the way it has to be. And like, you can't help. And like, yeah, yeah. And no one's 

[00:26:24] Kelsey: telling him to do this. He's just like, Oh, I have to, because this is what my father did. And this is what his father did. And this is the Supreme court. And I have to follow all these rules. He's never making his own decisions about who he wants to be.

[00:26:38] Kelsey: He's just been following a line. Yeah. Yeah, 

[00:26:40] Amanda: exactly. I see that from him. Very, very similar to Dane, which I think is why Reese's playfulness is all the more like, 

[00:26:49] Kelsey: Likeable. 

[00:26:50] Amanda: Yeah. Cause it's like, Oh yeah, exactly. It's like, Oh my gosh. Like Tamlin chill the fuck out for just a second. Yeah. Cause I think the other thing too, is that [00:27:00] Rhysand went through a very similar experience to Tamlin, if not worse, right.

[00:27:05] Amanda: And like, look how he handled it and how he came out the other side versus Tamlin. And I think that says a lot. Well, he's 

[00:27:13] Kelsey: still, and yeah, and Rhys still has his scars, but he doesn't push people away because of it. You know what mean, he still tries to be that protector for his people and his inner circle, but I don't think his relationships suffer because of it, 

[00:27:29] Amanda: you 

[00:27:29] Kelsey: know, 

[00:27:30] Amanda: well, that's the other difference too.

[00:27:31] Amanda: And I just thought about that when you were saying that it's like, , Rhysand very much is part of the collective, you know, he works collaboratively with others. Whereas Tamlin's like, let me go out and do this myself. Even in the first book, like he is the one going out alone to fight off all the bad creatures.

[00:27:47] Amanda: And Lucien is just kind of there. Whereas Rhysand has created, this circle of people that he's handpicked, who he trusts. Who's his found family. Whereas Tamlin's like, I don't know. You know, I can do everything on my own and, I'm an [00:28:00] island, you know, I'm like, and it has to be this way, which I think, I mean, I don't know that re sand Doesn't perhaps have some toxic traits, but I think Tamlin is more of an example of like toxic masculinity versus Rhysand for sure.

[00:28:18] Kelsey: Oh, yeah. , just getting into like resend and Feyre's like building relationship when I first read this book and I was like, is she really going to have her fall for resend? I was like, really? Because it just happened so quickly. It was so interesting , cause I felt. Similarly to Feyre and like, it's such a quick turnaround for you to really enjoy this other male's company and really like him.

[00:28:44] Kelsey: And then, , I am all about fated mates in fantasy world and I love that trope. So, yeah, I loved, I loved Rhysand and Feyre in the end. 

[00:28:54] Amanda: It's that fast though. I mean, considering other books that we've read, I feel like it [00:29:00] didn't happen that quickly. That 

[00:29:01] Kelsey: quickly. No. Oh. Oh. Yeah, it was definitely a huge buildup.

[00:29:06] Kelsey: Yeah. Like you, you knew right away though, like when he was flirting with her and he was like, resend is the best high, the most cunning high Lord. I love all of those things. And then even they had. At what point, I don't remember, like when they started like talking mind to mind, but then, , they were doing those notes back and forth, right?

[00:29:26] Kelsey: And I was so sweet. I 

[00:29:28] Amanda: love every moment of it. Exactly. Like, I think it, I mean, it's a long book. It started in the previous book. I think that buildup didn't seem rushed again, especially. Not to keep bringing up Fourth Wing, but we just read it like that seemed a lot faster in my mind between Violet and Zayden.

[00:29:43] Amanda: Like this took its time for sure. I think the other thing I liked about the relationships in this book is that I think sometimes in fantasy or in like romance, it can be so like, Oh my gosh, you meet and you fall in love and it's like songbirds and roses. And this is love that is [00:30:00] born out of like.

[00:30:00] Amanda: Trauma and grief and devastation and fear and like all of the life, like all of the things that can really either tear a couple apart, like it did with Tamlin and Feyre or bring people together. And I did appreciate that. Like it just felt a little grittier and I really liked it. 

[00:30:19] Kelsey: Watch out Amanda.

[00:30:20] Kelsey: You might be becoming a fan. No, absolutely. 

[00:30:22] Amanda: Will never. Will never. We'll see. 

[00:30:27] Kelsey: , the other thing I wanted to bring up was, , we didn't discuss like the Weaver at all in your summary. 

[00:30:32] Amanda: That was 

[00:30:33] Kelsey: a really fun, , portion of it where it's like reset. All it was, was testing her. Right. And which that could be kind of seen as like, ew, icky.

[00:30:43] Kelsey: , but, It's just hilarious how she gets out. And Reese is just like, I just sent you that take talk video where it was like all the memes and recents just like to do while fair is in 

[00:30:55] Amanda: the weavers hut. Next feelings about that. Like I am pretty confident, [00:31:00] obviously wouldn't have let anything horrible happen to her, but felt, I did feel very Tamlin ask, because if you remember in the first bug, he.

[00:31:09] Amanda: Is essentially using Feyre to help break this curse, like he set up the whole thing with, sending out , the Fey and Wolf's clothing, right. And to get someone who hates Feyre, all of this, like there's all these like machinations behind the scenes. And I didn't like that Rhys did that. I enjoyed that part of the story, but I was like, Oh, it's kind of like manipulative, like stop, 

[00:31:31] Kelsey: just tell her, 

[00:31:32] Amanda: just be honest.

[00:31:34] Amanda: , but I 

[00:31:34] Kelsey: think that's also shows Reese as like a real person, like he had his fears and doubts of like how she would respond and he was right, right? Like when she finds out from the serial, which I think it was mostly the fact that he didn't tell her, right. That she was upset. , but I think in the end, obviously, because they do end up mated, , she, , she, , Oh God, [00:32:00] what was I going to say?

[00:32:00] Kelsey: I just lost my thought, I drank a pot. No idea where you were going. That doesn't happen too often. , but sometimes it does. . , yeah, I just completely forgot what I was going to say. So, there's that. Okay, well, 

[00:32:14] Amanda: the other thing that we can talk about then is, which I had mixed feelings about, because it did feel like one of those parts, of the plot, that just felt really contrived.

[00:32:24] Amanda: Like, okay. Oh, you had to figure out a way to make this happen until like, this is how you did it. When Elaine and Nesta became like, I was like, I had a sneaking suspicion she was going to figure out some way to make it happen because, like, they needed to be around for more books. And it was so clear in that moment of the book, like, oh, you deliberately wrote this whole scene just to make this happen.

[00:32:48] Amanda: Like, was not necessary. You could have easily used any old person, right. And transformed them. , you could have just done one of the sisters. You didn't have to do both. Like, it was just one of those moments where I was like, [00:33:00] Oh, Sarah, like, I know you felt like you had to get them to become face somehow.

[00:33:03] Amanda: And it just felt so contrived. , although in that same scene where they're at the King of Highburns. Castle. The moment that Lucien and Tamlin step out of the shadows, I literally gasped. I literally was like, Oh my gosh, 

[00:33:18] Kelsey: I'm 

[00:33:18] Amanda: so 

[00:33:18] Kelsey: glad. 

[00:33:20] Amanda: You're like, what? 

[00:33:20] Kelsey: What? 

[00:33:23] Amanda: So she did get me there. I like literally jotted it down in my head.

[00:33:29] Kelsey: Oh, that's awesome. , yeah, the fact like, how could Tamlin ever think that that would have been okay? I have no, you know, like that Pharaoh would just come back to him and just be like his, his doll once again, like that makes no sense. 

[00:33:44] Amanda: Yeah. The level of delusion is insane. 

[00:33:47] Kelsey: High for him. 

[00:33:48] Amanda: But again, I think that ties into toxic masculinity as well.

[00:33:51] Amanda: It's like, I know what's best. Like this is what women want and, you know, like 

[00:33:55] Kelsey: it doesn't matter. Her sisters were taken, blah, blah, blah. , and, and then [00:34:00] poor Lucien, poor, poor Lucien. 

[00:34:04] Amanda: So the other thing , now he's, , Mated to Elaine. 

[00:34:07] Kelsey: And Nesta 

[00:34:09] Amanda: is clearly going to end up with Kathy in, or it seems though.

[00:34:13] Amanda: I think so. I don't know. 

Who knows? 

[00:34:15] Amanda: I, I'm pretty sure that's what happens. And there's, they're definitely like, she's sowing those seeds early. Yeah. , which again is like fine, but it does just seem like a little too neat. 

[00:34:28] Kelsey: Well, but. Are 

[00:34:32] Amanda: you going to spoil something? 

[00:34:33] Kelsey: No, no. I'm trying not to. So good catch.

[00:34:37] Kelsey: But it just also shows like Lucian is over here with Tamlin and then Rhysand and his buddies are like over here with them. And how they deal with like the mating bond is so different, right? So it's very different. Lucian couldn't keep it to himself. He's just like, you're my mate.

[00:34:56] Kelsey: She's like, what the f*ck Like, I just was like, [00:35:00] my body is like, not my own now. Like get the f*ck away. Just met you. I literally just met you. Like that was not the time. 

[00:35:08] Amanda: Lucian, 

[00:35:09] Kelsey: my boy. Like, please. 

[00:35:11] Amanda: Okay. That was something that you mentioned. That was something that made me sad about this book that I didn't like.

[00:35:16] Amanda: I loved Lucian in the first book and I found him underwhelming in this book. Like, Oh, totally. He lost his spunk and he was just kind of helpless and like, okay, well, whatever Tamlin says I have to do. And I felt like he, yeah, just had more like chutzpah like the last time and was like, you know, he was, he was almost more like, Reese, in the first book, just with his quips and banter and his playfulness with, , Feyre.

[00:35:44] Amanda: And he just lost all of that luster in this book. And I was like, why are you even here? And that made me really sad. I feel like she did Lucian dirty in this book. A little bit, a little bit. He didn't, he wasn't no real service to the [00:36:00] plot. He would show up in random scenes and just kind of be moping about and be like, just do what Tamlin says, Vera.

[00:36:05] Kelsey: Yeah. 

[00:36:05] Amanda: And I, yeah, it made me 

[00:36:06] Kelsey: sad. Which brings me back to the other scene that Lucien is in, like the main, one of the main, he's only in like two, Big pivotal scenes, really pivotal, but like he has like FaceTime in two scenes where he comes to the forest, trying to nab favor back. Right. And she's like, what, working with Cassian or was she with Risa and or was she by herself?

[00:36:30] Kelsey: I don't remember, but he's just like. Trying to get her back and , it's just so sad. He's so in the mindset that Tamlin is right. And it's just, I don't know. He's just, his loyalties are, 

[00:36:46] Amanda: yeah, he just becomes this, like lackey in this book and doesn't have a whole lot of independent thought.

[00:36:52] Amanda: And I didn't like that because it also didn't seem like a logical progression from where he was in the first book. But again, they've all been through something really traumatic, [00:37:00] so it's all shaped them in different ways. So 

[00:37:03] Kelsey: perhaps his trajectory has changed because he has made it now with Elaine.

[00:37:08] Amanda: Exactly. And he has a woman that he has to go like defend and protect. So we'll see. We'll see. I'm definitely curious to see how like all of these relationships unfold in the next book, especially because , I'm also curious about Morgan and Asriel, like what the heck is going on with those two?

[00:37:25] Amanda: Oh yeah, 

[00:37:26] Kelsey: because they're in like this kind of love triangle esque thing. Exactly. 

[00:37:30] Amanda: And like, they, yeah. Ricky's being strung 

[00:37:32] Kelsey: along. 

[00:37:33] Amanda: Yeah. It's like, will they, won't they? So I'm curious about that. , I'm also like looking at my notes too, to see if there was, , there was something else. ,

[00:37:43] Amanda: I mean, I think I did really like the fact that. For me, I know some people didn't like it, but I did feel like. The book did a good job of diving into Farah's emotional mental state post Under the Mountain in a way that felt real. Like they didn't dismiss it. She wasn't just fine in a couple of months.

[00:37:58] Amanda: Like it really wrecked [00:38:00] her and she's struggling with it throughout the entirety of this book. And I really loved that. It wasn't just like a snap. Okay, you're good. Like let's move on. What you went through was really awful. , so I felt like that was really well written and it felt like honest and real.

[00:38:14] Amanda: And then I think the other thing I want to say really quickly is that I did appreciate, , kind of the reversal between Tamlin and Feyre in this book. And that in the first book, Feyre kind of gives up everything for Tamlin. And in this book, he kind of does, especially by the end, like he's willing to , give up so much of everything like he's willing to risk his core, everything align himself with this nefarious king, , in order to get her back and , to see that level of desperation in some way felt justified in that you're kind of feeling what Feyre felt and kind of doing what she did where she put everything on the line for you the first time around.

[00:38:57] Amanda: And so I did like that. Karmic moment, [00:39:00] maybe. , yeah. 

[00:39:02] Kelsey: Perhaps there's more karma to come for Tamlin. 

[00:39:05] Amanda: Well, we'll see. We shall see. 

[00:39:08] Kelsey: The other thing that got me really excited about this episode was I actually went on Reddit. Oh boy. And I feel like I need to, like, come on here more often for books because it is so great. , even for like reviews, it could be great. But anyway, I looked up like favorite quotes from people and, , I think this one is from Cassian, I think. Let me know if you remember because I don't think it's from Reese, but he said come on Feyre We don't buy it unless you ask us to. 

[00:39:39] Amanda: I think that 

[00:39:40] Kelsey: was Cassian.

[00:39:41] Kelsey: It sounds so Cassian esque. It's so Twilight That's what it sounds like. They're 

[00:39:47] Amanda: not fanfired. I know, but they're essentially large batmen. So like, the connection's 

[00:39:52] Kelsey: there. Exactly going back to like, Your comments about the inner circle and like how fun they are. And that's the other [00:40:00] thing too. Last episode with ACOTAR, you didn't like how their, , , speech or their choice, their choices, , took you out of this like fantasy world, but that is like the essence of the inner circle and it shows how close they are.

[00:40:17] Kelsey: It shows like their relationships together, which is why I said, You know, perhaps her and Lucien talking like that was showing them like growing closer, which I think is, you know, what happened, but 

[00:40:31] Amanda: it definitely bothered me less in this book. I think I was expecting it this time around. I was like, okay, this is just what they do.

[00:40:36] Amanda: And like I said, I did like their dynamic. I liked their banter. I liked their playfulness, their connections with each other, especially because everything else that's going around them is going on around them is quite intense. 

[00:40:47] Kelsey: And then I can't end this episode before talking about Starfall. 

[00:40:52] Amanda: Okay, why? Do you 

[00:40:53] Kelsey: remember?

[00:40:53] Kelsey: Oh 

[00:40:53] Amanda: my god, I do! What do you want to say about like, Oh, it was a really pretty moment. [00:41:00] And 

[00:41:00] Kelsey: one of the best moments, one of these moments, yes. And one of these moments where it's like, Oh my God, especially on a reread, you're like, re sand is like painfully, , keeping a tight ship, you know, and trying not to spill his guts out and it's just the sweetest thing.

[00:41:22] Kelsey: , and it was a moment where. , Feyre is realizing that she's healing, right? Because she actually smiles out of joy for the first time in a really long time. And then, , she's with Rhysand and he's like, smile again. 

[00:41:38] Amanda: And it's just the sweetest thing. Oh, that's right. That did happen. It's sweet.

[00:41:43] Amanda: I didn't like stand out to me, but it was a nice, it was a nice moment. I appreciated that. You're 

[00:41:48] Kelsey: exquisite and ugh. It's one of those moments where as fantasy romanticy girlies, it's like, that's where we're like, Oh, so swoony. 

[00:41:57] Amanda: The other thing that I was [00:42:00] talking about, like, or like back in the very beginning of this episode with like my little nitpick, it's like, they're all exquisite.

[00:42:05] Amanda: They all look gorgeous. They all are like carved from marble and look like Greek gods. Like, so what does that even that word? I feel like it just loses some meaning. Cause we're like, we get it. You're all just like, 

[00:42:16] Kelsey: but he's not describing anyone. this way. He's describing Feyre this way. 

[00:42:21] Amanda: I know, but they're all described from 

[00:42:24] Kelsey: Feyre's perspective.

[00:42:28] Kelsey: But anyway, I just thought it was such a sweet moment. , but also just a turn for Feyre and just realizing, Oh, I can feel joy again. And , it's just like really sweet in that way too. Yeah. People are so funny on Reddit. I love it. , also we have not discussed chapters 54 and 55. This is one quote from there where this person, sad energy, 79, 66.

[00:42:56] Amanda: What? It's from that person like on Reddit. [00:43:00] Oh, I was like, what does that mean? Am I, am I deciphering some code here? I'm like, deep, deep, like, avatar fan shit. 

[00:43:10] Kelsey: This is from Reese, I'm thinking that I look at you and feel like I'm dying, like I can't breathe.

[00:43:15] Kelsey: I'm thinking that I want you so badly I can't concentrate half the time I'm around you. And that's from Reese. 

I do remember this. 

[00:43:25] Kelsey: I love him. And I forgot that I love him. Like I was telling you, I started again, like reading the summaries last night. And I was like, Oh yes, I fucking love this book. 

[00:43:35] Amanda: I, I mean, I really did enjoy recent this book, like no notes.

[00:43:40] Amanda: Like I thought it was great. And he was very entertaining. 

[00:43:43] Kelsey: Yeah. , and then a, quote actually from Feyre , when Lucien tries to approach her in the forest, , she says, , when you spend so long trapped in darkness, Lucien, you find that the darkness begins to stare back. And it's just like one of those moments where she's standing her ground [00:44:00] and she, , Will not take Tamlin or Lucian shit anymore.

[00:44:05] Kelsey: Yeah, and I think it's it's just important and shows you're empowering Yeah, who she's becoming No, 

[00:44:13] Amanda: I love it It's interesting because She also at the same time has become like this super weapon, right? Because she has all of these powers from all of these high Fae Lords and a being like her, hasn't really existed before.

[00:44:34] Amanda: And I feel like, and again, you read more romanticy than I do. And I feel like that's also another trope where you have someone again, a 19 year old girl who suddenly is like, superpower beyond belief and like, I have mixed feelings about it. I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes it does feel a little much.

[00:44:52] Amanda: , but I like that beyond that, she is coming into her own and to like her fully empowered self as a woman that has nothing to [00:45:00] do with like how many powers she can wield. , so I appreciated that as well. 

[00:45:04] Kelsey: The other thing I was going to say, you know, fantasy also has a lot of like, Oh, this is their destiny.

[00:45:10] Kelsey: This is their fate. , and there are some fan, , predictions, I guess, like, or theories is really the word I want to say. Theories out there around, , the, Oh, what is their last name? The Feyre and her sisters are 

Tron. 

[00:45:26] Kelsey: Yeah, the Archeron sisters and that they're actually descended from Fae and, , that their mother may have been.

[00:45:33] Kelsey: And so there's like this theory out there, , and interesting. And so thinking that through, , well, 

[00:45:39] Amanda: that would then make sense why Nesta was able to repel Tamlin's magic in the first book and he wasn't able to like, right. Make her forget what happened. 

[00:45:47] Kelsey: Yeah. There's like these little hidden gems, , throughout the book of like, Oh, okay.

[00:45:52] Kelsey: And so that is definitely a possibility. And so they were always destined to be Fae, , is one of the [00:46:00] ideas. I can get on board with that. , Yeah. And, , so I'm really excited for you to get into, , Nesta's storyline. That book is like so smutty. That's the thing though. I think you'll enjoy her storyline, but we'll see because I don't really like Nesta that much.

[00:46:19] Kelsey: Like I still don't like her that much even after her book. , but I think you might just because she's so human. , And like going through all the things, I think I really need to, whenever we do that episode, I absolutely need to re read that one. , because that one's the least fresh in my mind. 

[00:46:36] Amanda: Okay. 

[00:46:37] Amanda: , 

[00:46:37] Amanda: wait, so just to So I know, so the next book, A Court of what, Wind and Runes you said or something?

[00:46:43] Kelsey: Wings and Runes. Oh, Wings, 

[00:46:45] Amanda: Wings and Runes? 

[00:46:46] Kelsey: Yeah, something like that. 

[00:46:47] Amanda: Is that the end of? The trilogy? So yeah, it is a trilogy. Okay, and then the other books are just like kind of add ons. 

[00:46:58] Kelsey: Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that, [00:47:00] okay. You could like end with the trilogy and it would be, it would make sense. Okay. But then the next two books, so there's a novella after that.

[00:47:08] Kelsey: And then, , Nesta's story in, I don't remember what that one is called. What's the 

[00:47:14] Amanda: novella? Like, is it just like a spinoff from another character's point of view or something? 

[00:47:18] Kelsey: , no, I think it's Feyre's point of view, but it's just like them right after war. And then, , yeah, it's, , , it's just like wrapping things up.

[00:47:26] Kelsey: It's not wrapping things up really, but it's, , I think a lot of people think that it's like kind of useless. The novella, cause it's like a cute story, you know, cause like novellas , there are sometimes like a different point of view or like, , , yeah, I don't Telling of a story in a different way or different details.

[00:47:43] Kelsey: But this one is just kind of a wrap up at the end of Akawar of like them settling into their life. , but there is Stuff, with Nesta and Elaine and like understanding their story still. And people say that [00:48:00] there's a lot of like Easter eggs in there to lead up to the rest of the series.

[00:48:04] Kelsey: , because there's still so many questions about. Elaine and, , Nesta and their, their fates and like who they are as people and who they're potentially going to end up with and their storyline and their healing, all of those things. , I don't want to spoil anything for you. , so there's that book and then Nesta's.

[00:48:23] Kelsey: I see. Sick ass book. Okay. 

[00:48:25] Amanda: So Nessus is like kind of a standalone. It's 

[00:48:28] Kelsey: not really part of like 

[00:48:29] Amanda: the, okay. Yeah, yeah. I was just curious how that sequence goes. You would have to read the 

[00:48:31] Kelsey: series beforehand to read Nessus book. Sure. 

[00:48:34] Amanda: Yeah. Sure. Okay. That makes sense. Okay. And then the sixth 

[00:48:38] Kelsey: one is going to come out in 2026.

[00:48:39] Kelsey: Oh, there's, 

[00:48:40] Amanda: wait, there's more? 

[00:48:41] Kelsey: Oh, there's going to be more. Yeah. It's not complete. 

[00:48:44] Amanda: What? I'm so confused though. Where does it pick up? Is it like, is it now Nesta's story and like Nesta's got her own trilogy or something? 

[00:48:53] Kelsey: I don't think so. I think it's going to be about Elaine, but we don't have any like specifics about the book.

[00:48:59] Kelsey: , [00:49:00] yeah, so it's going to be so interesting, but yeah, I think it's going to be more Elaine's getting her own book. Okay. Yeah. Elaine, or it's going to be Asriel or, , a mixture of. Those characters. 

[00:49:10] Amanda: Okay. All right. Well, we'll see how long I stick with this. I will definitely do the first three and we'll see where it goes from there for sure.

[00:49:18] Kelsey: I just think you have to read Nessa's book because I really, I don't know how you're going to respond. And I'm just like, so curious, 

[00:49:25] Amanda: but if it's just like so much smart, I just feel like I'm going to be so annoyed. I'm going to hurl it across the room. Like, you don't understand how much I cannot handle it.

[00:49:34] Amanda: But I also think it's so fun getting into all the other 

[00:49:36] Kelsey: characters. 

[00:49:37] Amanda: I know it definitely is. If I can just, maybe I can get like the censored version. I'll tell you which chapters to skip. I'll just skim them. I'll just skim them. , okay, well let's, I guess we have to do final recs and then we'll do our reviews.

[00:49:54] Amanda: , would I recommend this book? , I mean, I would say. If you [00:50:00] have read ACOTAR, then yes, read this one, , I think it's better and, , it definitely continues to build up the story in a way that I, again, I feel like I use this word so much on this podcast, but in a way that's compelling, , and kept me reading.

[00:50:14] Amanda: , If you are not a romanticy person, though, I don't know if you should start the series like there are probably other books that you would enjoy more, but if you are curious, , and you know, want to know what all the hype is about. This book is definitely better. In my opinion, as a non romantic reader than the first , 

it 

[00:50:33] Amanda: does make you want to read the third book.

[00:50:35] Amanda: Like I very much, I'm like, I don't feel like Kelsey's forcing me at this point to read it. I'm like, I want to know what happens. So I think if you can make it to the second book, Continue, if you haven't started and are not into romanticy and don't want to be bothered, then don't bother. That's my, my final take.

[00:50:52] Kelsey: Nice. I of course recommend this book. , this is one of my favorite romanticy. Books, [00:51:00] Yeah, I'll leave it at that. So swoon worthy. So delicious. So delicious. Oh my God. Great. 

[00:51:07] Amanda: Okay. Well, we're gonna see what some other, we're gonna see what some other people think because we're going to do our literally the best or literally the worst.

[00:51:14] Amanda: And of course, I'll be reading one star reviews from Goodreads. Kelsey will be doing five star. , how many do you have Kelsey? I have four. , 

[00:51:21] Kelsey: I think, hold on. I have four. 

[00:51:24] Amanda: Okay. , it took me so long to find one star reviews because they were all so long.

[00:51:30] Amanda: Like they all had so much to say about what they didn't like, and I was like, I just need like a paragraph. Give me just a paragraph. 

[00:51:35] Kelsey: Can you just give me a paragraph or two? 

[00:51:37] Amanda: Summarize. Be concise. I don't, I don't 

[00:51:40] Kelsey: understand why people have so much time on their hands. Like, 

[00:51:43] Amanda: I was like, 

[00:51:44] Kelsey: what the frick? 

[00:51:45] Amanda: It's like they're, they've written like an essay and I'm like, who has the time to do this?

[00:51:49] Amanda: When? Yeah. More power 

[00:51:51] Kelsey: to them. Anyhow. And then sometimes they'll plug like their YouTube channel or something. And I was like, we need to start doing that. Just write 

[00:51:59] Amanda: [00:52:00] reviews and then just drop our podcast info. More information on our, 

[00:52:03] Kelsey: Littered or quitted episode. 

[00:52:05] Amanda: Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea. We might have to try and do that.

[00:52:09] Amanda: Okay. , I'm happy to start with a one star review. This comes from Cindy. This book was 600 plus pages of slog to get through. I understand how people would consider the sequel to be an improvement since the main character shows more agency and certain tropes are reversed, but the development was very on the nose and came at the expense of turning other characters into cartoonish villains.

[00:52:35] Amanda: The writing suffered a lot from telling and not showing, especially when it came to the dialogue where it mostly consisted of the main character. Asking questions, which would result in the other fairies answering via several pages of monologues in order to tell the exposition and characters background stories.

[00:52:51] Amanda: This would be fine if I cared about anything in the book at all, but I don't. People hyped this book up to be some trashy erotica, but there were only [00:53:00] two sex scenes towards the end. Otherwise, this book is just a very boring fantasy story. Honestly, I was glad there was just the two. It made it so much better for me.

[00:53:09] Amanda: They seem really disappointed there were only two. It sounds like they, yeah, it sounds like they wanted a romantic that had like a lot of erotica in it. More smart. That's definitely what they wanted, but no, I was happy with just the two. That was fine. No more, please. Thank you. 

[00:53:24] Kelsey: All right. My first one is . From Ward. , from Goodreads and they have reread this book seven times. Oh my God. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my god. 

[00:53:35] Amanda: As a, as a non rereader, that is insane. 

[00:53:37] Kelsey: Seventh reread, The rereads keep on hitting and hitting and hitting. I'm never going to get bored of it. Masterpiece of a book.

[00:53:45] Kelsey: And it was the perfect way to end 2023 six reread still perfect, still fucking glorious, still as magical as the first time. Fourth reread. And my heart feels full full to the brim. [00:54:00] It's overflowing with complete adoration for this book and series. I'm so damn thankful for its existence. Third reread. Just gives dates.

[00:54:08] Kelsey: Second reread five fucking glorious stars. Endlessly bows down to SJM first read. Wow. Wow. Wow. How the fuck does one even write a review for this? My mind has been obliterated. I'm done. Oh my god, that's just an important point is like this book is so re readable for us fantasy readers because you go back and understand like the series so much more and the character so much more after a re read.

[00:54:40] Kelsey: It's so fun. 

[00:54:42] Amanda: Yeah, I will take your word for it. I just, I'm not a re reader so I'm gonna just be like, yeah, okay, that sounds, yeah, that sounds right. , Okay, this next one star is from Zala. This sure was a ride. And this review sure got pretty long. So the too long, don't read version [00:55:00] is basically a custody battle between Tamlin and Reese.

[00:55:03] Amanda: And I struggled to get through it. I decided to give it a try since so many people who didn't like the first book loved this one. But to me, this book was even worse. The prequel had a cool setting in parentheses, makes a beauty and the beast and the ballot of Tamlin with the MC being a huntress who saves the dude in distress.

[00:55:20] Amanda: End of parentheses and royally messed it up in the execution. Same with this book. In theory, it sounds great. Fantasy FMC dealing with PTSD and ending a bad relationship to focus on healing all the while a war is brewing. , yes, please. The execution was disappointing though. I disagree.

[00:55:37] Amanda: Actually, I thought it was 

[00:55:40] Kelsey: and I enjoyed it. Wow. Amanda. Wow. Who are you? 

[00:55:44] Amanda: I actually, I was reading through a lot of the ones that are reviewed. I was like, I feel like you guys are being too harsh. 

[00:55:51] Kelsey: That is new. I know what's happening. 

[00:55:54] Amanda: Oh my 

[00:55:54] Kelsey: God. What is happening to you? All right, from Whitney [00:56:00] Atkinson, , re read in 2022, I've typed and deleted this review for the past 10 minutes.

[00:56:06] Kelsey: It's hard to review this book in a way that doesn't give too much credit to SJM because I cannot emphasize enough how deeply troubled I am by her massive fame, despite her problematic stances. All I can say is that. I'm troubled by how much I enjoyed it. That 

[00:56:21] Amanda: was the most confusing review. But then, 

[00:56:27] Kelsey: okay, this was her first read.

[00:56:29] Kelsey: Probably one of the most game changing books I have ever read. My love for Rhysand might be usurp. Might usurp. Usurp, okay. Besurp? What is that? No, usurp, usurp. Okay. They put might be usurp, but might be usurped. 

[00:56:45] Amanda: It should be might be usurped. 

[00:56:47] Kelsey: Thank you. My love for Warner. Who is another book boyfriend? 

I don't know.

Warner Warner. Yeah. It sounds like Warner for the guy from Legally Blonde, her first boyfriend. [00:57:00] Pretty sure that's a Warner. 

[00:57:02] Kelsey: , So this person is just conflicted because they love it so much, but they feel like there's something wrong. They're just conflicted by their love for it. I'm confused what 

[00:57:14] Amanda: the 

[00:57:14] Kelsey: troublesome stances are.

[00:57:15] Kelsey: I don't know what her problematic stances are. Yeah, I don't know what they're referring to, but 

[00:57:19] Amanda: anyway, they're conflicted. Yeah, that was a very confusing, very confusing review. I thought that was hilarious though. It gave me whiplash. Okay, this next one is from Richa, Richa? I read around 600 pages for what plot?

[00:57:33] Amanda: I hate the words growl, purr, roar, huff, or whatever the hell mass use is. Like, stop. I'm remembering one of those shows on the Discovery Channel or Nat Geo for animals while they're having at it. I have no idea if I should cry or laugh. Let me please address how chapter 55 was honestly so gross and unhygienic.

[00:57:54] Amanda: All those paints. Do you have any idea how much a pack of acrylic paint costs? And you're [00:58:00] telling me you did what with No, I am crying for those paints and canvases. What makes me cringe so bad is how mask goes over the top to prove Reese is different. The better guy, the best guy, the good guy, the perfect guy, the feminist guy, the smart guy, the hot guy, the caring guy.

[00:58:15] Amanda: Can we please stop for a moment? And give some actual character flaws? I get it. Reese is better than Tamlin. You don't need to raise it in every other line. Overall, if you like romance, read this book. But if you like fantasy with proper world building and well fleshed characters who won't talk for pages and pages and pages about themselves, I'm not sure you'll like this.

[00:58:38] Kelsey: That's so funny. I'm sorry. Chapter 55. Sounds fun. Like, 

[00:58:43] Amanda: , I, to me personally, that would like give me the egg just having, yeah, anyhow, we won't get into that. We are very different people, but yes, yes, yes. What was 

[00:58:54] Kelsey: the other thing that she said 

[00:58:56] Amanda: about like going on and on about how great a guy reason? Oh yeah.

[00:58:59] Kelsey: But then we [00:59:00] also talked about how. So he, there are areas where he is problematic. I disagree with that. I'm 

[00:59:06] Amanda: like, they definitely bring to the forefront, like the things that he does that are not great. So yeah. I disagree. 

[00:59:11] Kelsey: , okay. Five star from Jessica. Another reread. Oh my God. Reread this just so I could say with the utmost confidence and truth that chapter 54 is the greatest chapter ever written in the history of literature and no one can convince me otherwise.

[00:59:27] Kelsey: Quote. To the people who look to the stars and wish and to the stars who listen and the dreams that are answered. I wish Rhysand was real. I wish Rhysand was real. I wish Rhysand was real. I wish Rhysand was real. I 

[00:59:41] Amanda: knew that quote was going to come up at some point in this episode. I was just like waiting for it because it's everywhere.

[00:59:48] Amanda: I love it. It is a cute quote there. 

[00:59:50] Kelsey: Okay. You know how In fantasy in general, they describe like men purring or growling and you're like 

snarling or 

[00:59:58] Kelsey: snarling. You're just like, [01:00:00] how is it done? Like there's not really like, you're like, or, you know, just like, just like. Nobody does that in real life. Not anyone I've encountered, but I'm going to start doing it.

[01:00:14] Kelsey: Just in our conversations being like, 

[01:00:21] Amanda: literally. And one of the reviews that I didn't include, somebody went through and counted how many times they use the world snarl in this book. And it was like over 50 times over it. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Okay. My last one, this is a smidge longer, but here we go. This is from Julie.

[01:00:38] Amanda: I figured out what reading this book was like. It was like reading fan fiction. Don't get me wrong. I love fan fiction. I love really well done fan fiction. I like really ridiculous fan fiction. What I don't like is fan fiction that takes itself too seriously. What I don't like is fan fiction that is riddled with gag worthy cliches.

[01:00:57] Amanda: What I don't like is fan fiction that twists [01:01:00] characters into unrecognizable messes. And that is exactly what Sarah J Maas does. It's like after she wrote the first book, she decided that she had a crush on one of her characters and she wanted to make herself insert of a main character, spend more time with him.

[01:01:14] Amanda: And to do that, she rewrote history, changed and mangled beloved characters into something harsh and unrecognizable. 

Lucian. At the 

[01:01:21] Amanda: beginning, I was excited that this book was going to explore the effects on PTSD, but it didn't. Not really. It rewrote the original story, veered off into a direction that was completely inconsistent with the original.

[01:01:32] Amanda: Does she plan these or write as she goes? And God, the cliches, the cliches, the dialogue, the inner monologue is beyond cheesy. It's like a soap opera with fairies. And it didn't help, of course, that the book was non ending. Too long. I am very, very disappointed.

[01:01:51] Amanda: Actually, 

[01:01:52] Kelsey: like a soap opera, like, yeah, I would actually read that. 

[01:01:58] Amanda: I did not feel like it was a soap [01:02:00] opera. , I do feel like she, I feel like she mangled Lucien a bit, but I do feel like all the other characters, it felt like appropriate for what they went through, like their responses.

[01:02:09] Amanda: Like, yeah. Don't really agree with that either. 

[01:02:12] Kelsey: Yeah. Oh my God. We didn't really talk about Tarkwin that much. 

[01:02:17] Amanda: Didn't really, I mean, we can, I've, it's not a whole lot there. Like he was just a good dude and a nice court. 

[01:02:25] Kelsey: , I just, the only thing that I think I wanted to mention was like how jealous Feyre got and Reese got from them flirting with the other one.

[01:02:36] Kelsey: Yeah. That's so funny. , okay. My last five star review, which we'll talk about afterwards. It's from Nick Reads. This is exactly how you develop a healthy relationship. This is why my bro Reese is such an likable character. He respected every wish and need Farrah had every choice she made gave her the space and the [01:03:00] time she needed to heal.

[01:03:01] Kelsey: But at the same time, He pushed her to grow and thrive favor was always an equal to him. We have no choice, but to stand. I mean, he's definitely 

[01:03:10] Amanda: better than Tamlin and he definitely is. , Exude some better behaviors and has 

[01:03:18] Kelsey: better qualities. Yes. I don't agree that it's like a perfectly healthy relationship, but I agree that it's better than Tamlin and, , definitely more swoon worthy.

[01:03:29] Kelsey: For sure. 

[01:03:29] Amanda: For sure. Oh my gosh. We did it. We did it. So as always, we want to hear from you guys. So if you tuned in and have your own thoughts, or if you disagree with us on something, or if we didn't talk about something that you want to bring up, please comment on our social so we can keep the conversation going.

[01:03:49] Amanda: We will be doing another episode for Akawar once I've read it. So keep an eye out for that. I might 

[01:03:55] Kelsey: need to reread that one too. 

[01:03:57] Amanda: I mean, is it, is it, I mean, it's even longer, isn't [01:04:00] it? 

[01:04:00] Kelsey: I think so. I think the third one's 

[01:04:01] Amanda: the longest one. What is it called again? , but yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely let us know what you think.

[01:04:07] Amanda: Thank you so much for tuning in. And then of course, before we go, , a quick reminder to find us on socials. So lit vibes only underscore podcast on Instagram and then lit vibes only podcast on YouTube And, , yeah, we're excited to keep diving into this series with you guys. And if there are other books that you want us to dive into and these episodes, of course, comment and let us know so we can do that for y'all.

[01:04:31] Amanda: Otherwise, we'll see you next

[01:04:34] Amanda: Monday. Bye. Bye.