Ep. 22: Lit It or Quit It: Before I Let Go by Kennedy Ryan

Join Kelsey and Amanda as they explore the tumultuous relationship of Yasmin and Josiah in Kennedy Ryan's romance novel 'Before I Let Go’. They delve into its themes of love, therapy in the Black community, and second chances. Expect heartfelt insights, some humorous rants, and, of course heated debates. Did Kelsey get a Lit It from Amanda for this book? Tune in to find out!

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See you on Mondays!

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Lit Vibes Only!
• 0:21 Social Media and Contact Info
• 1:56 Chit Chat w/ Amanda & Kelsey
• 10:17 Book Discussion: Before I Let Go by Kennedy Ryan
• 47:09 LITerally the Best or LITerally the Worst
• 1:00:01 Social Media Plugs

Transcript

Ep. 22: Lit It or Quit It: Before I Let Go
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[00:00:00] 

[00:00:04] Kelsey: Welcome to Lit Vibes Only, where we lit the shit out of books we love and hate. I'm Kelsey. 

[00:00:10] Amanda: And I'm Amanda. And it is February. Oh my 

[00:00:14] Kelsey: goodness. 

[00:00:15] Amanda: Black History Month. It's my heritage month. I'm so excited. So much good content coming your way this month. But before all of that, before I get carried away, Our socials , we're at lit vibes, only underscore podcast on Instagram.

[00:00:30] Amanda: We are, we're still on tech talk. We are at least at the time of recording this in January. , we're on tick tock outlet vibes, only podcast. We are also on YouTube outlet vibes, only podcast as well. So come say, Hey, come check us out. Come follow us over there and get lots of extra content, , both connected to this podcast.

[00:00:51] Amanda: Or these episodes and also just like about us and our reading lives, our reading selves. So yeah, come check us out. 

[00:00:58] Kelsey: Also I wanted to [00:01:00] say, , litvibesonlypodcasts at gmail. com. Check it out. Email us. Come chat with us. Tell us your favorite book reads. , give us recommendations.

[00:01:10] Kelsey: Do folks still just randomly send emails? Well, we're inviting people too, so we'll see. 

[00:01:16] Amanda: Well, any, any way that you want to reach out to us, we would appreciate it. So sure. Yeah, we love it. 

[00:01:22] Kelsey: And please, Please, if you're listening on Spotify or Apple, , rate us, give us a review. Oh my gosh, yes. That would be so helpful.

[00:01:33] Kelsey: Little baby podcasts really need that love, especially in the beginning so that we can be seen and heard by others. So it's like the sunlight we need to grow. 

[00:01:47] Amanda: We're just like a little baby plant over here. We need to be showered with sunlight and water. And that would be your comments and your ratings.

[00:01:54] Amanda: , yes, please. And thank you. , Kelsey, I'm, I'm so glad you're, you're still with us. [00:02:00] You 

[00:02:00] Kelsey: had a rough week. I swear. , so yeah, first off. I was out for like a solid week under the weather, just, I had the flu, it turned out. And, , I was so horribly sick and I had to lean on Amanda to do socials.

[00:02:19] Kelsey: And I was like, can you do it? I was like, I was literally like in bed for like three solid days. I, and it was like in and out of consciousness of like, whether or not I was like awake or not. , it was, it was wild and I missed almost an entire week of work and 

[00:02:40] Kelsey: I tried to go back on the Thursday, so I was sick.

[00:02:43] Kelsey: It started Friday and then I was like, okay, for a little bit for like Saturday. I was like, okay. But then Sunday it really hit me and, , then I was out. 

[00:02:56] Amanda: Yeah. 

[00:02:56] Kelsey: And so then Thursday came around and, , I was [00:03:00] like, okay, I need to get to work like, and I wanted to, but then I was standing at work and I was like, okay, I can't do this.

[00:03:09] Kelsey: I was like, so because you texted me. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I said epic fail, like trying to go to work. I just didn't have the energy or the stamina. And then when I came home, I ended up eating a lot. Cause like, I also didn't have a, , appetite. So I was just eating so I could take my medicine basically.

[00:03:29] Kelsey: And nothing, , Sounded good. Nothing like it was just all gross. And so, I was just really weak. And so then Friday came along and I was feeling a lot better and I was able to stay the day and we had like this big event. We had a dance and the kids were crazy. It was great. They had a blast.

[00:03:48] Kelsey: , but yeah, I wasn't a hundred percent miserable that day. 

[00:03:52] Amanda: I genuinely can, I should like knock on wood as I say this. I cannot remember the last time I've had the flu, or if I've [00:04:00] honestly ever had it. I'll get like Head colds or like sinus infections, but I don't think I've, I cannot remember ever having the flu, but it sounds awful.

[00:04:09] Amanda: It's so 

[00:04:09] Kelsey: bad. And like, I'm not against getting the flu shot, but, , I just never, am able to make time for it. And then, oh, did you not get the flu shot this year? I didn't, I didn't, so that was part of my problem. Yeah. But I, well, I want to get it, but it's just like, yeah, 

[00:04:30] Amanda: it's 

[00:04:30] Kelsey: just one 

[00:04:31] Amanda: of 

[00:04:31] Kelsey: those 

[00:04:31] Amanda: things.

[00:04:31] Amanda: Does your school not offer like flu shots on campus? Like, cause ours will do like a 

[00:04:36] Kelsey: clinic. They will do like a clinics at different, , sites. And we did have one, but it's , in the evening, not during like the day, you know? , and so I'd have to stay after and like, You know? Mm.

[00:04:50] Kelsey: That kind of thing. Yeah. 

[00:04:51] Amanda: Yeah. I'm 

[00:04:51] Kelsey: like, I know that . 

[00:04:53] Amanda: Yeah. Anyway, I ended up, our school offered it, and I think I mentioned this in an earlier episode, maybe back in the fall, our school offered [00:05:00] mm-hmm. A covid booster and a flu shot like clinic, and I was sick. Mm-hmm. The day that they offered it, so I couldn't go.

[00:05:06] Amanda: Ugh. So I ended up, yeah. Stuff like that happened. Yeah. But, but then I just went, like, I live across the street from like a Bartell's, , which for those who are not in Seattle, it's like a local chain of pharmacies. , and I just went there and got them both done, one and done, but. Damn. Nice.

[00:05:21] Amanda: It was awful. It literally sounds like biblical and how awful it is, but you were just like a laid out for a week and could not function. Cause even when I have like a head cold, I'm probably in bed for like a day, maybe like a day and a half. And then I'm like, I'm functioning. Right. I can get up and get out and 

[00:05:38] Kelsey: about.

[00:05:39] Amanda: Yes. 

[00:05:40] Kelsey: Horrific. And then just also like, shout out to my husband who took care of me. I'm such a big baby when I was sick. Yeah. And , he had to go to work at one point cause some days he is able to be here at home to work from home, but he had to go to work one day and , I, I struggled [00:06:00] eating that day and I remember I had a fever for like three days and it would not go away.

[00:06:07] Kelsey: And , so I was like, I need to get up so that I can eat so I could take my medicine to make this fever go away. And I was just like, 

[00:06:15] Amanda: ah, 

[00:06:17] Kelsey: yeah. 

[00:06:17] Amanda: , I'm not so much a baby in terms of like, Oh, like I feel awful. I just get cranky because, you know, especially having hyperactive ADHD, just because I'm sick doesn't mean my brain is taking a break.

[00:06:28] Amanda: Right. It's still wants to be up and active and just like, but I can't. And that tension between wanting to do those things and physically not being able to do them makes me not a very happy sick person. 

[00:06:40] Kelsey: Oh, I hear you. Everyone is miserable. So the other like part of this is that normally I will take time to read.

[00:06:49] Kelsey: Oh yeah, perfect time to read. Yeah. And , I was so sick, like I couldn't focus on a book. Yeah, it was so bad. What a travesty, like literally. I [00:07:00] know, it 

[00:07:00] Amanda: was 

[00:07:00] Kelsey: torture. And so. On the 

[00:07:02] Amanda: upside to being sick is you can just sit in bed and read. 

[00:07:04] Kelsey: Yeah, exactly. , and so I attempted to many times read what is it under the whispering door?

[00:07:12] Kelsey: Yeah. I'm still not even through it. , yeah, so it's been a struggle. So I'm kind of in a reading slump, but we are recording the day before onyx storm comes out and I absolutely know that that book is going to get me out of this reading slump. And so. I'm looking forward to that. 

[00:07:31] Amanda: I still need to read Iron Flame.

[00:07:33] Amanda: I'm a little annoyed because there have been folks on socials who have not been tactful about the spoilers. And so I saw a couple of things about Iron Flame. And again, I'm not like obsessed with this series. I'm just like, Oh, I didn't want to know that information. You're dropping some really big spoilers.

[00:07:49] Amanda: And that's just like, no, poor etiquette or like, I don't even know what the word is. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm a little annoyed about that. I am going to read Iron Flame maybe, , in the [00:08:00] next week or so. 

[00:08:01] Kelsey: Ooh. But I can't wait 

[00:08:02] Amanda: to hear your thoughts. Oh. But I was annoyed about that. But I will 

[00:08:07] Kelsey: have read Onyx Storm.

[00:08:08] Kelsey: So you're not 

[00:08:09] Amanda: currently reading anything 

[00:08:10] Kelsey: at the moment. Well, you're sort of reading Under the Whispering Door. Okay. Yeah. How are 

[00:08:14] Amanda: you liking it so far? 

[00:08:15] Kelsey: I like it. , I am, , yeah, I like it so far. I'm still at a point near the beginning where Wallace is figuring out what's happening.

[00:08:26] Kelsey: , and , he tried to like go to town and then was like, Oh, yeah, or whatever. And so that that's around where I'm at. I'm like, he's so stubborn. He's like, where's the story gonna go? Because this guy, he's used to having the power. It was, it's so interesting. Oh, 

[00:08:43] Amanda: I can't wait for you to finish it.

[00:08:44] Amanda: , I like it the same as cerulean sea. They're both great. Really? , some people were like, 

[00:08:48] Kelsey: Oh, this book is better under the, 

[00:08:51] Amanda: so I think for the, for folks who didn't like cerulean sea, cause I know there were, there are folks who are not a huge fans.

[00:08:56] Amanda: Yeah. Like one of my friends in my book club like did not like it. , whereas [00:09:00] I think under the whispering door has a bit more. It's not as like cutesy as, , the Cerulean Sea, and so if Cerulean Sea was not your cup of tea, I would say don't write off T. J. Klune, check out Under the Whispering Door instead and see if you like that, because they are different.

[00:09:17] Amanda: I personally think they're equally as good, but they are very different vibes, . So if you've only read Cerulean Sea and you were like, this is not for me, I would say check out Under the Whispering Brook. It's delightful. , but I'm just starting Little Secrets by Jennifer Hillier.

[00:09:33] Amanda: I think that's how you say her name. 

[00:09:35] Kelsey: Yeah. 

[00:09:35] Amanda: , she's like a really well known thriller author, but I've never read any of her stuff. And the book that I'm currently reading, Little Secrets it has like over, well over like a four star rating. , so I'm hopeful that it's going to be great and it takes place in Seattle, like literally in the first line of the book, it starts off Pike, Pike market and I'm like, Oh, I saw that.

[00:09:57] Amanda: It makes me so excited. I'm like, I know these places. [00:10:00] So I'm excited to dive into that. , is it possibly 

[00:10:02] Kelsey: one we're going to read? 

[00:10:04] Amanda: , I will, I'll have to let you know. I think I, I think I'll probably have you read at least one of her books in the coming months because she is a pretty well established thriller author and she's new to me.

[00:10:14] Amanda: And so seeing how it, depending on how we like this book, we shall see. But for the time being, we're going to discuss this book before I let go, Kennedy Ryan. , so Kelsey, do you want to tell folks why you chose this novel for me to read?

[00:10:32] Kelsey: Yeah, love to. So, there's a couple of things. One, it's Black History Month.

[00:10:38] Kelsey: And Kennedy Ryan is black woman, black author. , so I wanted to highlight a black author. , and then also she is well known for her romance novels, but they're not.

[00:10:51] Kelsey: super mainstream, , and we'll get into this more, but like, they're just not the, Oh, here's that trope. Here's that [00:11:00] trope. And here's all the white characters and like the problematic or the side POC characters, you know, like it was , a full, , black cast in the book, if I remember correctly.

[00:11:12] Kelsey: , I think the neighbors were maybe two gay men. Yeah. , so it's just like, it's not a typical romance book that you would see, , Advertise, , so I wanted us to dive into a slightly different, , romance 

[00:11:26] Amanda: all right. Well, that's helpful to know. , I will, , dive into the summary and then you can ask me what I thought about this book.

[00:11:33] Amanda: Sounds good. , so, So for folks who maybe didn't read the book or just need a quick refresh, , this book centers on a couple, , Yasmin and Josiah, who had been together for 15 years and have two children together, , Kassim, who's their son and, , their daughter, Deja. And, , they have fairly recently.

[00:11:58] Amanda: Gotten divorced [00:12:00] and they live in a neighborhood in Atlanta called Skyland and in spite of being divorced, they are still running this restaurant together that they started called Grits, which has become quite successful. So they're, they're pretty well off. They live in a great neighborhood. , and in that sense, like things are good.

[00:12:21] Amanda: , As the story unfolds, we get a little bit more information about the history of Yasmin and Josiah's relationship and more information as to why they separated in the first place. So, what you learn is that Yasmin was pregnant with their third child. And during her eighth month of pregnancy, she was by herself closing up the restaurant one night, she tripped and fell, and unfortunately wasn't able to get medical help in time, and, , her baby, their son, was born early and was born stillborn.

[00:12:56] Amanda: , and that event really just devastated [00:13:00] their relationship. They both processed their grief or didn't in different ways. And it ultimately drove a huge wedge between them to the point that Yasmin asked Josiah for a divorce. , she just, yeah, things were not good. And she had asked Josiah to do therapy, , and he refused and that's something that comes up often in the book.

[00:13:20] Amanda: So over the course of this story, , which again is happening. Post divorce. We see Yasmin and Josiah kind of navigating their new normal. So Josiah starts dating Vashti, which is like the new cook at the restaurant. The prior cook at the restaurant was actually Josiah's aunt called Aunt Bird. And she was like a huge figure in both of their lives, Yasmin and Josiah, and was kind of.

[00:13:47] Amanda: , she kind of was the glue in the relationship in that she, you know, doled out great advice. She really helped them get the restaurant off the ground. She was someone safe for both of them to confide in. And I think her loss also had a huge [00:14:00] impact because Aunt Bird died and then They had a stillborn baby

[00:14:03] Amanda: , and so they were dealing with a lot of grief and trauma. So anyhow, he starts dating Vashti. , Yasmin has like two besties, Hendrix and Soledad, and they pop up several times in the book. They're always together. And, you know, I think Hendrix and Soledad want, Yasmin to move on, especially as they see Josiah exploring a new relationship, but all throughout this book, there's like this lingering, like sexual tension between Yasmin and Josiah.

[00:14:33] Amanda: I mean, they're still seeing each other on a regular basis, right? They're raising children together. Even though he moved out, he lives like a couple blocks away. , they're obviously interacting with each other because of the business that they run together. And so there's like all of these moments when you're like, all right, clearly you guys are not done.

[00:14:49] Amanda: Like clearly there's like unfinished business here and maybe you need to get yourself sorted. So Yasmin, , ends up starting to date this white Senator named, , Mark [00:15:00] Lancaster. Partially because she's trying to get herself back out there. And I think also partially trying to get back at Josiah for dating Vashti.

[00:15:07] Amanda: , long story short, , both of those relationships end up kind of fizzling out for different reasons. And Josiah and Yasmin are provided with this opportunity to start a second restaurant location in Charlotte. And so they take this trip together of this kind of like scouting trip. To check out the restaurant and, , check out the area.

[00:15:29] Amanda: And in the process of going on this trip, they have to share a hotel room and they do end up getting together and having sex. And from that point on, they, , decide that, you know, we're not going to get back together, but we're going to keep enjoying each other's company in this way, but like no strings attached.

[00:15:50] Amanda: , and then that ultimately, as the story progresses, leads to them, reconsidering their choices, falling back in love with each other. And by the end of the book, they've decided to kind of move [00:16:00] forward as a family. , you know, one of the important things that leads to that change is that Kazim the son who is like this really smart, , , I think he's in middle school.

[00:16:09] Amanda: , he is really struggling. With processing everything that's happened with his family and his parents separating and his teacher brings that up to Yasmin and Josiah and encourage them to seek therapy for Kasim and Josiah essentially promises that if Kasim does therapy, he will give it a try as well.

[00:16:30] Amanda: And so, , Josiah's choice to finally address and process. Some of these demons that he's had and the trauma and grief that he's experienced also leads to them collectively healing as a couple healing individually and like coming back together and Yeah, so that's essentially 

[00:16:50] Kelsey: I think you covered like the majority of that There's just one part that I want to chat about when We get to it later, but [00:17:00] yeah.

[00:17:00] Kelsey: , so Amanda, will you tell us, 

[00:17:03] Amanda: was this a lit it or quit it for 

[00:17:05] Kelsey: you? 

[00:17:06] Amanda: Yeah, this is quite literally going to be a game time decision for me because I've been wobbling back and forth since I read this book as to like, what, what I want to say and the criteria that I'm using, but I guess this is the short answer.

[00:17:19] Amanda: So I would say that it is a, and I keep using these little like nuances. It's like a soft, Lid it like a very soft lid. It like, I honestly am smack between a lid or quit it on this book, but I think because it's black history month and because I want to support my sister, Kennedy Ryan, I'm going to give it a soft lid.

[00:17:40] Kelsey: Oh, well, thank you. Have I had you read a romance book yet? 

[00:17:45] Amanda: No. So this was the first, just like straight up romance, not a romantasy Just like, Here you are.

[00:17:53] Kelsey: What were your, I don't know. Cause you don't have like a. Background in like what romance is really [00:18:00] I know more mainstream. I guess like this is a mainstream book But the things that are different are one. It's a fucking grown ass couple They have been married.

[00:18:11] Kelsey: They have the struggles like they already have a background with one another. It's a second chance romance Which I don't typically go for, , and then there's like all this loss and grief going on , in the background of the story, you know, it's, it's really the heart of the story, And so, , you know, the man isn't like controlling in some way or like overly super protective or what have you, you know, , it has less drama in it than what you might see in a typical romance novel.

[00:18:44] Amanda: Okay. I mean, it definitely has less drama for sure than like the romantacies that you've had me read. , and I think that I, I liked that. It was, it was a nice change of pace getting to see what a romance Looks like that [00:19:00] is both like more grounded in reality and like the realities of an actual relationship.

[00:19:04] Amanda: And that was taking place between two folks who already had, like you said, a history versus like, Oh my gosh, I've just met this guy and there's butterflies. And he's so like, you know, charismatic and handsome. It's like, it doesn't have that kind of honeymoon element of romance, which I think I liked because That's often what we see, even in chick flicks, right?

[00:19:25] Amanda: It's like, yeah, and oh my gosh, I'm swept off my feet. And so I will say if we're starting off with maybe things that I liked about the book, I did like the fact that it was a little bit grittier and that it's like, here's what an actual relationship could potentially look like in the real world between two real people who are suffering through real challenges.

[00:19:45] Amanda: , and I think. It also touched on some key issues , in the black community, which we can talk about in a moment, especially like things around therapy and the ways that, , [00:20:00] perhaps we talk about it, think about it, address it, , in the black community. , so I will say overall, that was. It's one of the reasons why I would lean a little bit more towards a lit it for this book, because it didn't feel so, I don't know, like pie in the sky, unrealistic, fairy tale romance.

[00:20:18] Amanda: I was like, okay, you seem like for the most part to actual people that, I don't know, I could know in real life. 

[00:20:25] Kelsey: Yeah, absolutely. It, like you said, it's, it's definitely grounded in like a possible reality. Right. It's not just like a fantastical and having feelings, these deep. Seeded feelings for someone for no apparent reason, right?

[00:20:41] Kelsey: And 

[00:20:42] Amanda: it also, like, it also wasn't super tropey. Like there's the second chance trope and there's also like the forced proximity because they're raising kids together. They have to share that hotel room together. But outside of that, and again, I am not as well versed in this genre. I didn't see a lot of 

[00:20:57] Amanda: tropes happening. Like they're, they're there. I'm [00:21:00] sure. But like, I don't know. I feel like in romanticity, they're so like smack you over the head, with the tropes and this one, I didn't feel like was the case. I really appreciated that. 

[00:21:10] Kelsey: Yeah. That definitely was a highlight and intentional, I think by Ken and Ryan.

[00:21:15] Kelsey: Yeah, absolutely. , so yeah. Do you want to discuss that topic though, that you brought up around therapy? Yeah. 

[00:21:23] Amanda: So it, I mean, So it did feel a little, almost like reading a self help book because at different moments, it did feel like Kennedy Ryan was like getting on her soapbox and was like, y'all, we need to embrace therapy in our communities and see it as a helpful tool to help us heal and process and like love and care for each other better.

[00:21:48] Amanda: But with that said, like, we.

[00:21:52] Amanda: I don't want to generalize, but I know that growing up, especially for me, therapy was seen as being for white [00:22:00] people, it was something that privileged people did. it was often construed as like a sign of weakness. And at some point in the book, she talks about. Especially for folks who are religious within the black community.

[00:22:12] Amanda: It's like you don't need therapy because God will fix everything. If you are strong in your faith, , and trust and believe you don't need therapy. If you pray hard enough and, and lead a good life, like you'll be fine. And I think that kind of thinking, , it happens right in our communities and prevents people from seeking help when they need it.

[00:22:34] Amanda: I think the other thing. That is really important is that there also just is a, there's a dearth of black therapists and I know even when I was seeking out a therapist years ago, that was a priority for me. I was like, I want someone who understands my experience and can speak to that and understand it.

[00:22:51] Amanda: And, , yeah, it's hard. It's there's such a low percentage of them, especially black male therapists. And I loved that in this book, [00:23:00] Josiah was able to find one, and Have a safe space to process, , but it is a huge issue and I feel like it's not just the black community.

[00:23:07] Amanda: I think it's true for a lot of other marginalized communities that we're just taught, like, 

[00:23:11] Amanda: you 

[00:23:12] Amanda: know, you grin and bear it, you, you push forward. Like there are so many other big challenges we're facing as communities and like therapy just seems like a luxury that we can't take the time to indulge in when in fact we probably need it more than, than other folks.

[00:23:25] Kelsey: Yeah, I was going to touch on that like in my indigenous community right growing up It definitely is seen as like this luxury And I didn't get into therapy until I was a full adult you know and I've never had an indigenous therapist. Oh, actually scratch that. I did once, and so yeah, it is a struggle like to be understood by the person that's supposed to be helping you, you know, , but I loved how, , in the book, it.

[00:23:59] Kelsey: [00:24:00] It was Josiah, right? And he goes by Sai from some people. It was just really about him, like being able to have a place to talk about these things, right? Cause his character, it was him bottling up all of the things that have happened and him not processing, , where, , Jasmine, on the other hand, process too much, right?

[00:24:23] Kelsey: They were on the opposite sides of the spectrum from one another. , and it was, it was good to see represented in this novel, the two different experiences and just that they didn't fall out of love they, were processing differently, and it did put a wedge between them because they couldn't communicate the things that they were experiencing.

[00:24:47] Kelsey: , yeah, and that's hard. And when you're going through loss like that, , It is absolutely possible for those things to come between your loved [00:25:00] ones. 

[00:25:00] Amanda: For sure. , 

[00:25:00] Kelsey: and so I liked the fact that it was realistic. Like that's actually, that happens to people. All the time. Constantly. The loss of a child can 

[00:25:08] Amanda: absolutely end relationships and haves.

[00:25:10] Kelsey: Exactly. 

[00:25:11] Amanda: And I know you've mentioned before, you're not like a big fan of second chances, but I really liked it. , that aspect of it, like I liked that they were able to heal and come back together.

[00:25:20] Amanda: Cause I think that's a possibility and I think presenting folks with that possibility that like there is space for healing, there is space for forgiveness, there is space for coming back together. , I think it'd be really helpful and encouraging for a lot of people, depending on what their life situation is, but depending on what their relationship situation is.

[00:25:37] Amanda: Yeah. Where I think some folks are like, no, it's one and done. I could never go back. Like, that's not even a possibility that I'm willing to contemplate. And I like that this book. Kind of opens up that possibility for folks to ponder and consider, , because sometimes like, like we're humans, we make mistakes and to just shut down that possibility, from the get go , I think can be really problematic for [00:26:00] any kind of relationship, whether it's romantic friendship, et cetera.

[00:26:03] Amanda: So I did really like that about the book, , 

[00:26:05] Kelsey: and the only reason that was possible was because both of them took the time to be on their own healing journey. Yes. And it took Jasmine two years. She was like, what is it? It's Yasmin. Oh, Yasmin. Yasmin. , it took her two years to be able to like, yeah, after the divorce to in therapy processing all these things before is she ever considered getting back with Sai.

[00:26:34] Amanda: Yeah, exactly. Like it takes time. That's such a huge loss and providing yourself time to grieve and process. So I did really like that about the book. , I also, in this kind of ties back to something I mentioned, , in a previous episode. Where I I brought up the movie American fiction.

[00:26:51] Amanda: It's that movie about the author, the black male author who decides to write this book. That's like all, all about showing black people as they're often seen stereotypically as like [00:27:00] gangsters, like in the hood, whatever. And I loved that this book, you have two well educated, successful black individuals, , coming together.

[00:27:10] Amanda: And, , yeah, just getting to see, like, , folks in my community in that light. , and also, like, their, the tragedy of their story doesn't have to do with, you know, Like racism and oppression, right? It's just a real, , human, , what is the word I'm trying to say? Like experience that's universal where we're dealing with death and loss and grief.

[00:27:33] Amanda: Yeah. And we just get to see them as like these two human beings. And it's not like, oh, we're seeing them as like these racialized and oppressed individuals who are You know, fighting in a system that is designed to diminish and belittle and oppress them. , which oftentimes is what our stories look like, right?

[00:27:50] Amanda: We're always within the frame of like, slavery or drug use or incarceration or whatever. Like it's always about like these [00:28:00] kind of racialized challenges that we have to face. And so I really liked that it gave them space to just have like, again, a universal human issue that we can all relate to. So I really appreciated that about the book.

[00:28:11] Amanda: And, , I also love, and it doesn't, it's funny cause you don't think about this. At least I personally don't. , when you're reading it. a standard book, where anytime a character is described, the default is that they are white. Right. You rarely see in a novel, an author taking the time to say like, this character is white because that is the default.

[00:28:33] Amanda: And it's great when you have a book that has, as you said, like a black cast, quote unquote, , that then the white characters are delineated and specifically referred to as white. Right. It's like, Oh, Mark Lancaster, this white guy who did it, whereas mainstream books, it's like the, you know, the minorities, right.

[00:28:50] Amanda: The oppressed individuals are always. , , referred to by their racial identity Oh, you know, , the black woman that I ran into on the street, right. Or the Hispanic guy who like, whatever, whatever. [00:29:00] And I always love that. I always like makes me chuckle a little bit. I'm like, yeah, that's right. Like this book, you know, it's not about you.

[00:29:06] Amanda: You are the minority character very much. So, and having that called out really draws light to the fact that we do just live in this space where it's like, yeah, the default is white characters. And because of that, we don't feel the need to call that out in any way. , yeah. Also, I really, I love that whenever 

[00:29:26] Kelsey: I'm looking like, yeah, it's a good, , reversal 

[00:29:29] Kelsey: exactly. 

[00:29:30] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:29:32] Amanda: , 

[00:29:32] Amanda: I enjoyed that for sure. 

[00:29:34] Kelsey: The other thing that I just wanted to get into around, , their relationships with their children, , I think Kassim, what did you say? How do you? So Kassim and then Deja. Kassim, he's, I think he's 10, isn't he? 

[00:29:47] Amanda: Yeah, he's like 10 

[00:29:48] Kelsey: or 11. Yeah. He's just this little guy and he's like, yeah, so cute.

[00:29:53] Kelsey: And he's like, loves his mom. And, , he's struggling with, , How to deal with [00:30:00] loss. Right. And so that's why they get him into therapy. And just a side note I really cringed at the educator scene with the parents and I was like, dear God, this conversation would never happen from an educator to parents.

[00:30:19] Kelsey: Like they wouldn't, I don't, I would never. I don't know. I'm just like that. The whole thing. I was like, that doesn't seem right. , where if you haven't read the book, it's the scene where I think it's a white educator. I, , it's this woman who is Kaseem's teacher and, , she's talking about his emotional readiness, , to jump a grade

[00:30:45] Kelsey: And the teacher is just saying, Hey, like I've seen him talk about this and that, like you should get him into therapy.

[00:30:53] Kelsey: I've just never had a conversation like that. 

[00:30:56] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. It made me a little 

[00:30:58] Kelsey: uncomfortable. 

[00:30:59] Amanda: I mean, I know [00:31:00] as teachers, we're specifically told, we are not allowed to make that recommendation to parents.

[00:31:03] Amanda: Like if our school counselors want to, after chatting with the student, but like, yeah, as teachers, you're not allowed to be like, yeah, I think your kid needs therapy. 

[00:31:10] Kelsey: Yeah. And that's what that scene was essentially. And I was like, damn. This. White woman is saying this to them and I was like, it was just wild to me. , so that scene didn't like exactly align with like practice in a school. , as educators, of course we have, I have an opinion around it, but most people might not. 

[00:31:29] Amanda: Yeah. But you know, though, as you were talking that scene didn't actually stand out to me.

[00:31:34] Amanda: And I think the reason why is because I'm sure that conversation has happened before. And it also, I think ties into a little bit of like white saviorism, right? Where it's like, Oh, here's this distressed, child of color. , let me come in and 

[00:31:48] Amanda: tell these parents what's best. , and again, coming out of what they feel is like a really great place and, , and perhaps not having that kind of impact or being appropriate. , so [00:32:00] I think that's why it didn't stand out to me. I was like, no, that tracks. 

[00:32:03] Kelsey: I'm just curious, like, I'm curious, Kennedy Ryan's like thoughts behind that scene anyway.

[00:32:10] Kelsey: Also, here's the 

[00:32:11] Amanda: thing though, cause I was thinking about that too. Like it's clear in this book that she's like very pro therapy, which is fantastic. And so maybe in her mind, having the teacher reinforce that, like, yeah, I'm pro therapy. I'm going to recommend this for your child. And it also worked.

[00:32:25] Amanda: It was a function of the plot because they had to figure out a way to get Josiah into therapy. So she's probably fine with it. And I don't think she's an educator. 

[00:32:32] Kelsey: So, , yeah. Anyway, that's just like a random thought on one of the scenes. , And then the other thing that I oh, go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead.

[00:32:42] Kelsey: Go ahead. I'm jumping. So if it's related, no, I didn't 

[00:32:45] Amanda: know if you wanted to, since you were talking about Kaseem, I didn't know if you wanted to talk at all about Deja as well, since we were talking. Oh, yeah, I was gonna say that. Okay, that's okay. 

[00:32:53] Kelsey: , So yeah, with Deja, And how, like the [00:33:00] portrayal of them was, I felt like very realistic of mother daughter dynamic.

[00:33:05] Amanda: Yeah. And 

[00:33:05] Kelsey: then of course, like it's revealed at the end that she's mad at her mom because she knows that her mom was the one that, , requested the, the Divorce. Divorce. Yeah. And so, of course, like, a young girl like that is going to have these complex feelings around, , well, my mom destroyed our family, da da da, and just, like, have this one sided view of, like, what's going on.

[00:33:29] Kelsey: Yeah. , and that, , Is really hard. 

[00:33:31] Amanda: Yeah. But again, as you said, also, you're very realistic and she's, you know, she's in high school, she is going through adolescence and all of, all of those changes. And I think one of the things that you can't do well when you were a kid, I know I didn't, and most people can't, it is very hard to see your parents as like, Oh, Fully formed individuals who are going through their own struggles and challenges.

[00:33:53] Amanda: Like they're just mom, they're just dad, they're just whoever. And they have a very kind of rigid, fixed role that [00:34:00] they play. And we just don't have the capacity. To see them in their fullness and also because as children were protected from a lot of things that we were not involved in those conversations, etc.

[00:34:08] Amanda: And I know that for me personally, it's been helpful, you know, growing into adulthood and being like, Oh, I can understand my parents better. I can understand the decisions they made. I can see like their own hang ups and fears and anxieties. And you see her starting on that journey by the end of the book, right?

[00:34:25] Amanda: As her parents have opened up to her been more. Clear about what happened and what led to the divorce. But yeah, I agree. I thought it was really well done. Felt very accurate and. Again, like kind of gritty too, because it is painful to see the way that she's treating her mom and you're like, yeah, just respectful how you realize like, she's also like grieving and angry and confused.

[00:34:50] Amanda: And like, of course, that's how you're going to respond. 

[00:34:52] Kelsey: Yeah. And even Yasmin's, , Responses to her like felt real to yeah, just like as a mom being [00:35:00] so frustrated, not knowing what to do. Yeah. , lashing out like it was, yeah, 

[00:35:05] Amanda: it was just, well, you used the word early. I think it was you. I don't, I don't think it was me.

[00:35:10] Amanda: Like you use the word I think grounded for this bug. And You know, we've talked before in some of our like lit rex episodes, the ways in which a story can be like a window or a mirror for us based on our positionality. And for me, there were a lot of moments of like mirror where I could see my lived experience being reflected in these characters.

[00:35:30] Amanda: And it adds, like you were saying to that sense of groundedness and reality, like I jotted some of them down. So she talks, I think it's Yasmin who talks about her mom. How her, yeah, it is. Yeah. It's Yasmin. She talks about how at night her mom would put noxzema like on her, on her face and like on her skin.

[00:35:49] Amanda: And that was something that my grandma did every single night. And I remember just watching her go through her routine when I was younger and we lived with them and there was like, yeah, like that's it. [00:36:00] thing in the black community, especially for like older women, like that's the one product you always use.

[00:36:05] Amanda: I've never seen anybody else use it in that way. , and yeah, she had great skin. It's like that. I think, you know, then making the comment about like having ashy legs and making sure that you need to be like lotioned up or putting on your cocoa or shea butter. I'm like, yep. Every summer, right. Whenever we had shorts on or whatever was like.

[00:36:21] Amanda: Got to get slathered. So you don't go out with ashy legs. I loved the fact that Deja has like this Tik TOK channel about hair. Like our hair is such a. , essential part of being a black woman and is a part of so many of our experiences. And I just loved all of those little moments that made this story like real for me and made me feel connected and seen and is, you know, it's such a, an amazing aspect of reading.

[00:36:50] Amanda: Where you can see yourself reflected and what you're consuming. 

[00:36:54] Kelsey: Yeah, I think it was a really great choice for her to, , make Deja, , this hairstylist. Yes. [00:37:00] Yeah. And then not only that, like, you get this experience that you're talking about and relatability, , for black women, but then also, , It allowed Deja and Yasmin to have this like real moment together.

[00:37:16] Kelsey: I don't know if you remember when Yasmin does her hair. Yeah. And , yeah. 

[00:37:22] Amanda: Yeah. Well, the other thing too, which I loved about this book and even on the cover for those of you who, who read the book and I can hold it up for those watching on like YouTube, like it's a picture of a black woman who I'm assuming is she's like, this got this huge curly Afro.

[00:37:35] Amanda: And like, Hair is such a huge part of, like, the Black woman experience. We spend so much time, like, doing our hair, thinking about our hair, buying hair, going to the hair salon, and we also can get so much hate for our hair, and experience so many micro and macro aggressions about, like, I will say, the majority of, like, racist people [00:38:00] Like comments and, and, , I don't know, interactions I've had over the course of my life have almost always centered on my hair.

[00:38:07] Amanda: , and so I loved the fact, like for other people reading this book, they might not have picked up on it or they might have skimmed over it or not seen it as a big deal, but they talk a lot about hair in this book, both because yes, Deja has a TikTok channel. I don't think, do you say TikTok channel? Is that a thing?

[00:38:23] Amanda: Account. Page. It's just TikTok account. Yeah, page. I was like, that's YouTube. , anyhow, she has this TikTok account. And so obviously she's doing a lot with hair, but like throughout the book, Yasmin is talking about like what she's doing with her hair that day and whether it's braided or twisted or out or like up in a headscarf or whatever.

[00:38:41] Amanda: And it's like, I love that so much. Because it is such a big part of who we are and how we view ourselves. And then of course how we're perceived. And again, it was just like one more little thing where it's like, yeah, this story feels, it feels real. , and it feels like it's accurately reflecting, , our lived experience.

[00:38:59] Amanda: And again, I [00:39:00] also want to put the caveat, like there, no one's a monolith. This book is not representative of every single black experience and it's impossible for a book to do that. But there were definitely a lot of moments where I. I felt connected to the story in that way, which is very cool. 

[00:39:15] Kelsey: Yeah. It's always nice when a book does that.

[00:39:20] Kelsey: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it feels when books are super popular, it just feels like that is lacking, you know, like, and especially in the genre that I really like to read where it's, , Not just romance, but like fantasy as well. Fantasy really struggles with the diversity, , and experiences of people who are not white.

[00:39:43] Amanda: Yeah. Prior to you actually recommending this book, I was on TikTok, looking up like different, , folks who are recommending, you know, books by, by black authors. And she consistently came up like specifically this book.

[00:39:56] Amanda: , so I'm like, okay, this is good. I feel like hopefully [00:40:00] more and more we'll see authors of color, which I think is already happening, just becoming more mainstream . So it's not like, Oh, only black people read black books, right. Or only like black people. No, this is just a book that anybody can engage with and learn from.

[00:40:14] Amanda: This is just a movie anyone can go see and engage with. And I'm hoping as time continues to pass that, like that will be the norm. Cause even now I feel like there's still like, Oh, if we might've talked about this, maybe at some point, like if you go and see a movie. And it's a largely black cast. People are still talking about it as a black movie.

[00:40:37] Amanda: Right. Whereas, like, if you go and see a movie with an all white cast, you're not like, Oh, yeah, I'm going to see a white movie today. You know, because again, that's the default. And so, like, getting people to just, I don't know, engage with these stories and texts and films, whatever, and seeing it holistically as like, these are other human beings sharing their experience versus like, Oh, we're putting it into this box of, I don't know.[00:41:00] 

[00:41:00] Amanda: It's just a, it's a, yeah, it's like, it's just a black book. It's just a black movie. It's just for those people. Full stop. Or, or I'm being like, so open minded and like, so going out of my way to like watch this thing or read this book. Like I'm, I'm hoping more and more that will just be the default, 

[00:41:20] Kelsey: being people are just enjoying this book.

[00:41:22] Amanda: Yeah, exactly. And it's just like seeing these, these individuals for like the holistic multifaceted people that they are. Versus like whatever stereotype you might think of when you're, you know, X, Y, or Z person of a particular community. 

[00:41:35] Kelsey: And that's like why I am personally enjoying our podcast is because we, you and I are getting to expand our own reading and read various books from various people from various backgrounds.

[00:41:54] Kelsey: , and we've both introduced one another to. , slew of offers already. [00:42:00] Yeah. With our recommendations and mm-hmm . With our litted or quid episodes, , so I'm excited to keep that going. Yeah. 

[00:42:07] Amanda: Yeah. Absolutely. I feel like I've learned so much. I mean, I just literally last week finished Fire Keeper's daughter.

[00:42:13] Amanda: Yes. Which, y'all know Kelsey loves that book. She's been raving about it for the last year. It was one of her top books of 2024. Mm-hmm . And, you know, I, I can say that prior to this. podcast I didn't read a ton of books by indigenous authors. I'd read a couple, but not like a lot. And so just getting to expand my reading and perspectives in that way, the same with last month, like I was like, Oh yeah, I haven't read a lot of books by Muslim authors and that celebrate Muslim stories.

[00:42:38] Amanda: This is a great opportunity for me to You know, address that and, and kind of correct that. And so I'm hoping, yeah, that our, our listeners are doing the same and taking the books that we recommend and yeah, expanding their reading and having new experiences.

[00:42:57] Amanda: Well, 

[00:42:57] Kelsey: so at the end then, now that we're at the [00:43:00] end, , are you going to be reading five star reviews? 

[00:43:03] Amanda: , no, I'm going to be still reading one star reviews because we have to have some sort of balance here. , but yeah, it was interesting because, , some of the things that came up in the one star reviews I did agree with and some I didn't.

[00:43:17] Amanda: And I think one of the things that did come up and I mentioned very briefly that did kind of make me not like super excited about this book was it did feel very. Repetitive . , and I felt like Yasmine, and Josiah were having kind of the same interactions multiple times throughout the book.

[00:43:38] Amanda: Mm-hmm . And I understand, again, it that felt realistic because that does happen, especially if you're working through something like this. You're gonna keep coming back to the same thing over and over again. And maybe new things were coming up for you. Yeah. But for a reader, it did kind of drag and I felt like there was a good chunk of the book that you could've just.

[00:43:53] Amanda: Snipped and, and tossed aside. , it was a fake romance book. It was. Yeah. , it was a sizable read. , and I [00:44:00] think, so that definitely came up for me. , I'm trying to think of other cons cause I didn't really get into them and our discussion, but I think that was a big one.

[00:44:07] Amanda: And you know, I'm not a huge fan of, of SMUD. This one only had, I think two, maybe three sex scenes. Yeah. And it wasn't like, and it wasn't too, it wasn't too, , Bad. , 

[00:44:17] Kelsey: wasn't about his length. 

[00:44:21] Amanda: Yeah. , I think for me, I just, , again, I, I appreciated seeing her experiences represented, et cetera.

[00:44:28] Amanda: I don't think there was anything in this book that really grabbed me though, where I was like, Oh, wow. Like I, I know this is part of a series. It's the first book. And I think three, cause I think it's going to dive into like Soledad story next. And I'm assuming they're going to end with Hendrix. , but I'm like, that book comes out this year.

[00:44:43] Amanda: Yes. Yeah. , but I don't feel any pressing need or desire to read the rest of them. I was like, okay, I did it. I can say that I read a straight, like a straight up romance. , But you, but you know, like, I'm not like, Oh, I'm like, so I'm not like invested in these characters per se. , I'm not dying to know what [00:45:00] happens next.

[00:45:01] Amanda: , was fine. It was a, it was a fine book. Yeah. So 

[00:45:04] Kelsey: I already have the second book, so I will be reading 

[00:45:08] Amanda: that. Well, okay. So then now that we're talking about this, this is another book that Kelsey and I read together, quote unquote, like she hadn't read this book before me and then recommended we both read it together.

[00:45:19] Amanda: So what is your final recommendation for this book? Like, how did you respond to 

[00:45:24] Kelsey: it? Wait, do I do that before or after the, , I think we normally do it before we do it before that are the literally the best, literally the worst. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely think it's a, , quit it or I'm sorry.

[00:45:40] Amanda: Viridian slip. Okay. The truth.

[00:45:45] Amanda: That was fantastic. I was like, Oh, I didn't see that one coming. 

[00:45:50] Kelsey: No, it's how you really feel. It's a little, for sure. I think that, , I enjoyed the characters more than I thought I was going to. I [00:46:00] really struggled getting into it at first because I realized it was going to be a second chance romance. And I just like, have never gotten into a second chance romances.

[00:46:08] Kelsey: I think it was really well done for that trope. , but yeah, I just, , I wasn't like in love with it in the ways that you're saying, , similar to what you're saying, I think, but, , but I did enjoy the book. 

[00:46:20] Amanda: Okay. Okay, so you, and I will read the next 

[00:46:23] Kelsey: one. Oh, totally. 

[00:46:25] Amanda: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'm kind of, again, on the fence about this.

[00:46:30] Amanda: I, like I said, I want folks to expand their reading. And I think if you, if you are someone who likes romance and tends to only read, , You know, romance is that feature or center on white characters. I think this could be a, like a really great departure from that for you. And so I think in that sense, I would recommend it.

[00:46:47] Amanda: , but of course, more generally as someone who's not a romance fan, I wasn't hugely invested in this book. So I think if you are a romance, reader, I would recommend it. If you're not, [00:47:00] maybe find a book in a genre that you like, but that also features characters of color. 

[00:47:06] Kelsey: There you 

[00:47:06] Amanda: go. 

[00:47:08] Kelsey: , Are you ready to get into our one star 

[00:47:12] Amanda: and five star reviews?

[00:47:14] Amanda: Yes, I'm pulling them up right now. Here they are. Okay. , and again, as always, if this is your first literature credit episode, this is the portion of our episode where we do something called literally the best or literally the worst. I will read one star reviews from Goodreads. Kelsey will read five star just to add some more.

[00:47:31] Kelsey: Voices to this conversation. Yeah, and tends to be funny. But we'll see about this one. I'm not sure. 

[00:47:37] Amanda: I don't know that well, some of them Some of mine are a little humorous. Okay. So I'm happy to start. . This is our first one star review. This is from an individual named Vara, , Vera, , Brown. I wanted to like this book.

[00:47:51] Amanda: At first I was hesitant to pick it up because Colleen Hoover was on the blurb. I thought there was no way I could like a book being praised by her and I was right. [00:48:00] Should have just went with my gut. I would have saved my time. The premise of the book sounded good. This story had so much potential. If only it had been shortened, actually showed us the scenes of their marriage when it was good and made me actively believe it was worthy of a second shot.

[00:48:15] Amanda: The entire time you're hearing about how good their relationship was and how they were this it couple, and I'm just like, Where? How am I supposed to feel for two characters and root for the relationship when I don't see it? That was honestly the biggest problem I had with this book. It's all, you two had the love of a lifetime and all I see is two people who can't move on from their ex and are stuck in a toxic cycle, but also can't admit that they want each other.

[00:48:39] Amanda: I'm convinced this wasn't a romance book. There was nothing romantic about this besides their sexual tension, which was at times kind of uncomfortable, but that might just be me. I don't know.

[00:48:53] Amanda: I didn't find their sex scenes uncomfortable, but, but I do agree in that it could have been shortened. And I like the point that she brought up [00:49:00] that I think it would have been nice to have maybe another flashback or two to when things were good because they only flashback flashed back to when they were first together, like the very, very beginning of their relationship.

[00:49:13] Amanda: Well, when 

[00:49:13] Kelsey: he proposed to her, yeah. 

[00:49:15] Amanda: Yeah. So yeah, it's like the big, and they, they were, you know, still young and in college, but there was nothing from like, you know, perhaps. 

[00:49:21] Kelsey: Yeah. All of the years that all of the years 

[00:49:23] Amanda: post marriage. , so I think it's a valid point. I wouldn't, I wouldn't disagree with that.

[00:49:28] Kelsey: Hmm. Okay. Well, my first to five star review is from kale, kale, Lowry. , I think it's a woman though. Not like, 

[00:49:39] Amanda: how was their name spelled? Like the vegetable a I 

[00:49:41] Kelsey: L. 

[00:49:43] Amanda: Oh, oh, okay. So yeah, that seems right. Kale. 

[00:49:46] Kelsey: Kale, . , okay. Life is lifing, and I wish I could have finished this sooner than I did. I love the layers of this story.

[00:49:56] Kelsey: It felt so real and relatable. I could picture all aspects of [00:50:00] this story playing out in a show or a movie. The complicated feelings that come with love, divorce, death, and grief reminded me of my own life experiences. Kennedy did a fantastic job writing this. I love the character development. Frustrating at times, but that's also true to our real lives.

[00:50:19] Kelsey: I will be adding her other books to my TBR list. 

[00:50:23] Amanda: Oh, okay. It's also like high praise if someone who has had a similar life experience. It's like, yes, this feels true for me. You know, and we talked about that with , it ends with us when there are folks who had experienced domestic violence and we're like, yeah, that like, that was my experience or my experience was very similar.

[00:50:39] Amanda: So, , That's always, yeah, that's always helpful to hear. Okay. My next one is from user Georgia 7. , every time I read a second chance romance, I hope that I will like it. And every time I don't, I'm like, why can't you figure out your shit the first time? In this book, I [00:51:00] really blame him. She was severely depressed and he was nowhere around.

[00:51:04] Amanda: She was in a deep black hole and he left her there to dig herself out. Then he got mad with her for not being quick enough. She asked him to go to therapy and refused and he claimed that he loved her. That's bullshit. If you love your wife, you do anything and everything to save your marriage. She asked you to go to therapy.

[00:51:20] Amanda: You go, even when you don't believe in it, she asked you to talk to her priest. You go, even if you're an atheist, she asked you to go to a voodoo shaman. You go, even though you go, even though you know, it's crazy. She asked you to go to a snake whisperer. You go, even though you hate snakes, you fucking try.

[00:51:36] Amanda: You don't just give up and then blame the other person for asking for a divorce. That woman was all alone. He was at work all day. And when he got home, he dreaded it. How was she supposed to heal with absolutely no support system? He was a shitty person all around. He went to therapy for his son, but he refused to go for his wife, meaning she wasn't important enough for him.

[00:51:55] Amanda: Then he treated the other woman like dirt, telling her that she deserves to be with a man that [00:52:00] doesn't think someone else is. That doesn't think about someone else when he's with her. Meaning that the entire time he was with her, he was thinking about his ex even during sex. Usually I would give two stars, two stars if I like the sex scenes, but I didn't even like those.

[00:52:13] Amanda: I truly didn't want them to get back together. They were having sex and I would cringe. The only good thing out of this book is the talk about therapy and how important it is. Other than that, it was a huge disappointment. Man, she is like, she really came for Josiah. So 

[00:52:29] Kelsey: that's the thing I think that, , fantasy reads and romanticy reads like really due to people is like, no, if you hate snakes, why would you go to a snake whisperer for your partner?

[00:52:43] Kelsey: Like, what are you talking about? This is insane. Like, that is the standard that people think that. Love should be but I felt like this book was like way more realistic and he didn't intentionally Like leave her right like or leave her alone at home. [00:53:00] He had no idea how to deal with his own grief That was the problem and that's so realistic to real life Like that's why this book is different than a lot of the other books.

[00:53:10] Kelsey: Yeah, and so yeah, He messed up and so did she like that was the whole point of the book is that like they're realistic characters and human because like in our romanticy books like, you know The men will do anything for the woman, even go bad, like for her. And that's sure.

[00:53:29] Kelsey: That's like great storytelling, but like, why would we want every story to be that way? 

[00:53:35] Amanda: Right. You 

[00:53:35] Kelsey: know? 

[00:53:35] Amanda: Yeah. And it's not always healthy to do that anyway. Exactly. , but I do, one of the things that I did like that she brought out was, and that was hurtful because. To Yasmin. And, you know, they talk about in the book, it's like, yeah, like he ultimately decides to go to therapy for his son, but for his grieving distraught wife who asked him multiple times, he was like, no, I can't do like that.

[00:53:56] Amanda: Totally. That is. That's rough. [00:54:00] And that made me like him less. Yeah. 

[00:54:02] Kelsey: That whole. scene where he's like, Oh, go for you son. And I was like, why is this? She not more pissed. 

[00:54:08] Amanda: Yeah. I would be, I would be so mad. I would be so livid. Like, am I not just as valuable and unworthy as your son to make this quote unquote sacrifice for.

[00:54:20] Amanda: So I'm, I'm glad she pointed that out. Cause that really did bother me. 

[00:54:23] Kelsey: Yeah. Everything that, came afterwards, though, in that review, I was like, you don't just do everything imaginable. Like, yeah, I just, yeah, that's toxic. Yeah. Then. Yeah. Yeah. But I agree about the therapy part. , okay. This one is a little longer.

[00:54:41] Kelsey: Okay. So, and I think it's Kasia. Okay. , From Goodreads. Wow. I love a second chance romance, but this one is my first one where the characters are divorced with kids. I love this one very much as most of my expectations were exceeded. The main thing I [00:55:00] was looking for is chemistry and growth. This was done extremely well because I saw a lot of growth from Josiah, Yasmin, and their kids.

[00:55:08] Kelsey: They took active steps to find out where the problem stemmed from and work more on their communication regarding chemistry. My goodness, you know, a story is about to be good when the tension between two people who are obviously still in love can be felt at high levels. I like that this didn't feel rushed at all as it gave me slow burn vibes.

[00:55:29] Kelsey: I also like that I wasn't necessarily on anyone's side since they both messed up. Their relationship with their kids was also quite substantial. And Ryan does a great job of showing how important it is in the mending of Josiah and Yasmin's relationship. Their daughter caught my anger way too many times, but her character did illustrate what is probably common to see in kids when their parents divorce.

[00:55:55] Kelsey: Still, she did. almost catch these hands. Mental [00:56:00] health was also huge in this one. We don't often talk about how hard it can be to take steps to open up such as going to therapy. I was so proud of the characters who took this step and thankful by to Ryan for bringing awareness to it. Highly recommend.

[00:56:18] Amanda: I think she's like spot on and highlighting a lot of the things we talked about and reasons why we, , liked it. So, , next one, this one's from Sarah. , one of my most anticipated books of the year quickly became a DNF. I wasn't vibing with any of the characters really.

[00:56:33] Amanda: Especially the side characters. How many times can you just cringely ask a woman why she isn't still sleeping with her ex husband because he looks amazing in bed? I can't anymore with this. That's true. Hendricks, especially kept on like, you make your husband so fine. How can you not be with him?

[00:56:53] Amanda: Unhelpful Hendricks, unhelpful. 

[00:56:56] Kelsey: Funny. So that was your last one. Do I have one more? Okay. Okay. [00:57:00] I have two more. Perfect. Okay. This is actually from Abby Jimenez, who is also a very popular romance. I'm still thinking about this book. So, so good. Josiah is somehow an alpha cinnamon roll here.

[00:57:16] Kelsey: What does that mean? I actually have no idea. I read this earlier and we're going to have to figure this out. But she says alpha cinnamon roll. All right. I don't know how Kennedy pulls this off, but she does. He's strong and sexy, but also emotionally intelligent and totally devoted to his family. The conflict was perfect.

[00:57:35] Kelsey: Excellent mental health rep, exquisite angst. This was my introduction to Kennedy and I'm totally hooked. 

[00:57:43] Amanda: Okay. All right. Well, she's clearly like smitten with this book. I also would googling so a cinnamon roll is a romance character who is all soft on the inside. This term came into play as a contrast to everything else.

[00:57:59] Amanda: [00:58:00] Alpha, which is, you know, yeah, a really dominant lead character. So I guess she's like, yeah, he's like, he's both like great dominant, but also soft and gooey on the inside. All right. 

[00:58:10] Kelsey: Okay. , my last one, we learn new 

[00:58:13] Amanda: things every day. We're going to just start dropping that into our episodes. He's such a cinnamon roll.

[00:58:21] Amanda: Okay. So last one for me, last one star review is from Natasha. I wanted to love this book. I really did. It started with a beautiful narrative with two different POVs I thought would keep me captivated, and very detailed descriptions of every little thought. Unfortunately, what I thought I liked about this book became what I hated.

[00:58:41] Amanda: Repeated exposition, Time and time again, to the point I could skip ahead and still know what happened in the chapters before I see why it was called before I let go, because I definitely had to skip to the end before I let go of the time I wasted reading. 

[00:58:56] Kelsey: Oh goodness. 

[00:58:58] Amanda: But yeah, I mean, [00:59:00] again, I do think there were some repetitive sections, redundant sections in this book.

[00:59:05] Amanda: So 

[00:59:06] Kelsey: yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that. , okay. My final review from Jessica. Words can't even begin to describe how talented Kennedy Ryan is as a writer. The amount of time and research that goes into her books creates such impactful stories that actually change the lives of her readers. This book is a second chance romance between a couple who lost a child and got a divorce because they couldn't heal while in a relationship with one another.

[00:59:32] Kelsey: They have two kids and you really get to see how the children are affected by their different Divorce, but also how each parent is affected by their children and how they act around them. The couple owns a restaurant together and they are still co co parenting, so they are always around one another.

[00:59:50] Kelsey: Two years have passed and Josiah decides to start dating again. When Yasmin, , sees this old feelings are stirred and she realizes she doesn't want [01:00:00] Josiah being with anyone else, but Yasmin and Josiah are dealing with their losses. Their own losses and struggles with depression and therapy and have to learn to heal themselves before committing themselves to each other.

[01:00:11] Kelsey: Again, this was so emotional and my heart broke for Yasmin and Josiah. Their kids were also so special and played such an important role in the story. Kennedy Ryan gave us another amazing romance and I couldn't recommend it enough. 

[01:00:27] Amanda: Oh, I do like the fact that she brought up the kids because I don't know how often kids factor into romance stories because usually there are no kids involved at that point.

[01:00:38] Amanda: But so that is, yeah, that's something I think that makes this book unique. And they were, they were like really well rounded, fully fleshed out characters too, even though they were kind of side characters. So yeah, kudos to Kennedy for that as well. I'll definitely give her props, , for that aspect of the book.

[01:00:53] Amanda: Wonderful. All right. Well, that wraps up our first February lit it or quit it episode. , [01:01:00] just one more time. You can find us on socials, , at Instagram at lit vibes, only underscore podcast, Tik Tok and YouTube at lit vibes only podcast and as Kelsey, so wonderfully pointed out, you may also email us at lit vibes only podcast, email your regs, email us to us.

[01:01:19] Amanda: , We do check our email regularly. , but yeah, we want to hear from you. , we definitely want to know if you're team Kelsey or team Amanda on this one, although I guess we're both technically just to like varying degrees. So let us know your thoughts. Let us know if you're going to read this entire series and are super into it.

[01:01:37] Amanda: Yeah. , but yeah, thanks for hanging out with us today and, , we'll see y'all next Monday. 

[01:01:42] Kelsey: See you next Monday.