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Ep. 8: Lit Chats: Romantasy Tropes

• Lit Vibes Only • Episode 8

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Join Amanda and Kelsey as they navigate the whimsical world of romance tropes, comparing fantasy favorites and dissecting cringeworthy clichés like 'only one bed' or 'teacher-student' dynamics. Buckle up for a lively discussion and then let us know what your favorite and least favorite tropes are!

Follow us on TikTok & Youtube @litvibesonlypodcast and on Instagram @litvibesonly_podcast. We'd love to hear from you!

See you on Mondays!

Ep. 8: Lit Chats: Romantasy Tropes
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[00:00:00] 

[00:00:04] Amanda: Welcome back to Lit Vibes Only, where we lit the shit out of books we love and hate. I'm Amanda. And I'm Kelsey, and we're so glad to have you back for another episode. As always, , if you are not following us on socials, we're on Instagram Lit Vibes only. Podcast, YouTube and TikTok at Lit Vibes only Podcast.

[00:00:27] Kelsey: Come talk to us on our platforms. We want to see you want to 

[00:00:31] Amanda: hear from you. Like 

[00:00:32] Kelsey: follow, 

[00:00:32] Amanda: subscribe. 

[00:00:33] Kelsey: Yes, please. , it helps us as a new podcast, , to be seen and heard. So please, please, please do that. One other thing that is going to help us be seen and known in the podcast book community is if you rate and review our podcasts on Spotify or Apple, you can send us that review and then we will send you a first [00:01:00] edition special never before seen sticker from Lip Vibes Only slash it has been seen.

[00:01:07] Kelsey: , just kidding, but I'm going to build a hype Amanda. 

[00:01:11] Amanda: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm totally ruining the moment. Continue. 

[00:01:14] Kelsey: So, , please, please, please do that. That is extremely important for podcasts to be rated and reviewed so that, , we have visibility in, on the platform. So please go do that and we will happily send you a sticker.

[00:01:28] Kelsey: All you have to do is again, do the review or rating and then send us that. Reviewer rating in our DMS or email, which is live. I was only podcast at gmail. com. And so fast and send us your address so that we know where we're sending it. Yeah, 

[00:01:47] Amanda: it just dropped a couple in the mail today, so get excited. And when you get it, when you get your sticker, take a picture of wherever you've stuck it and tag us and we will be sure [00:02:00] and share that on our social platforms.

[00:02:02] Amanda: Yes, please. Yeah. Kelsey has some big news though.

[00:02:09] Kelsey: I am so stoked. Amanda's like teasing me for this cause she is not a Tay Tay fan. I, and finally, I think I say that and we've had this conversation before. You've heard me say that before. I don't think I've ever heard you referred to her as Tay Tay. , so I have been dying to get tickets to Taylor Swift.

[00:02:32] Kelsey: I was looking at into it when we were over in Spain and I was like, it would not be that expensive to go over to Germany for a day and come back. And, you know, like I tried to get tickets to Vancouver BC cause we're really close to there. , but it was like near impossible. The tickets are like 2, 000 and above.

[00:02:53] Kelsey: And, , I thought about going on my own and just biting, biting the bullet. What does that was the phrase? Yeah. Yeah. Biting the bullet. [00:03:00] Yep. And buying one of those tickets. But, , I didn't end up having to. So my husband got his tickets to the new Orleans show, , in October. And so by the time this episode comes out, I think I would have.

[00:03:13] Kelsey: Yeah. Yeah. And so it's exciting for me right now because I have yet to go. 

[00:03:21] Amanda: It's so funny when you told me this news, I I'm not a Swifty. I mean, I can appreciate her music. I. Actually went to the movie theater and watched like the heiress tour. Oh, you did movie. I did. I had no idea Yeah, it was so 

[00:03:33] Kelsey: much shit for liking her then you went behind my back and saw that movie Behind your back.

[00:03:38] Kelsey: I just didn't tell you same thing 

[00:03:42] Amanda: And I will say like she knows how to throw throw you don't throw a concert you throw a party She knows how to put on a good concert And I did enjoy watching the movie. I just, I think I draw the line with just the insane hype around her. Like, [00:04:00] I don't get it. And I think with these generally kind of scare me.

[00:04:04] Amanda: They're just so diehard passionate in a way that I find alarming, but you know, I don't have any, I have no beef with Taylor. Like she's doing what she's doing and she's doing it. Successfully. So like more power to her. I just don't, I think she's overhyped. , but it's funny. What I was going to say originally is like, when you told me that you got tickets and that you were going down to New Orleans, like my, the thing that got me excited was not you going to see Taylor Swift.

[00:04:28] Amanda: I was like, Oh my God, I love New Orleans. You're going to have like so much fun. There's so much good food. There's like, I know you're going to see a concert, but there's just so much music everywhere. It's like that city is just alive with music. So. 

[00:04:43] Kelsey: I've never been. Yeah. I'm so excited. , we're really only going to be there like one.

[00:04:48] Kelsey: , one full day. and, , I don't think I've ever said it on the podcast, but my husband and I are vegan. And so we are such foodies and we seek out the best vegan food in every [00:05:00] city. And we've been looking at new Orleans and I'm just like, So excited. 

[00:05:04] Amanda: Yeah, you're going to eat so well.

[00:05:07] Amanda: Like it's such a haven for foodies. So yeah, I'm excited. For you to experience that city and like, whatever, but like New Orleans. Great. So pumped. 

[00:05:18] Kelsey: And my husband is coming with me and, , he, he no, in no way intended ever to go to this concert.

[00:05:26] Kelsey: And now 

[00:05:27] Amanda: he's like, 

[00:05:27] Kelsey: totally. 

[00:05:30] Amanda: Sorry, go ahead, go I interrupted. , 

[00:05:32] Kelsey: I lost my thought. 

[00:05:34] Amanda: I'm so sorry. I just like, I, you mentioned him going with you and I was like, Ooh, what are his thoughts on Taylor? Like, Oh yeah. I feel like I do. 

[00:05:42] Kelsey: He, yeah, pretty much like he's just, he's not definitely not a Swiftie. I, I don't know that I would consider myself a Swiftie, but I love her music, but I'm not like the diehard, like she can do no wrong type of Swiftie.

[00:05:56] Kelsey: , I really related to her music, like, I [00:06:00] mean, yeah, she was, she's my age, right. And she's our age. And so, so I grew up with her. , there was a period of time where I wasn't listening to her at all. And then came back to that. So anyway, , he, yeah, he's just, , Pretty, pretty mid about it. He likes some of her songs, , but he's not like, he would never have bought these tickets if I wasn't obsessed and really wanted to go on the same 

[00:06:23] Amanda: page.

[00:06:24] Amanda: He and I for sure. Yeah. , 

[00:06:27] Kelsey: . This is kind of a segue into our topic of the day, because the way that I got into books and knowing about books was through TikTok, right? So , 2020 came around and TikTok was all the hype. I got on it immediately and started making, I remember I was making videos for my students , as a Spanish teacher.

[00:06:53] Kelsey: To kind of get them engaged in Spanish still, while we were away from the classroom. , and then eventually all of that morphed [00:07:00] into, , finding books on BookTok. And the BookTok community can be quite similar to Swifty's, where it's like, there's a lot of like cancel culture when someone like says something that they don't like.

[00:07:15] Kelsey: , or if anyone comes after the dark romance, , genre, , They're like canceled immediately and it's, it's very interesting. It's very, , I don't appreciate that side of book talk, but the things that got me into reading, I do obviously appreciate. And the topic we're going to discuss specifically, , are romance or romanticy or fantasy book tropes.

[00:07:40] Kelsey: Yes, exactly. 

[00:07:41] Amanda: Exactly. And this is actually going to be our very first Lit Chats. Episode. 

Mm hmm. 

[00:07:48] Amanda: Brand new episode type for us. Yay. As always, we're sticking with the lit. Hence, Lit Chats. We can't get away from it. You can't escape. I want to figure out a way, you know, how they [00:08:00] have the different like thematic universes, like you have like the Marvel universe, the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[00:08:05] Amanda: I'm like, we have like the, how can we do that? The lit, the liter verse, I don't know. We'll work on it. Literarius. Literarius. Liters. Literers. That sounds so bad. Litiverse. The lit, the litiverse. That might, we'll, we'll work on it. We'll workshop it and get back to you guys. We'll get 

[00:08:20] Kelsey: there. 

[00:08:21] Amanda: But everything within this world is going to incorporate lit in some way.

[00:08:25] Amanda: And these are just the episodes where we have chosen a bookish topic. So today, romance, romanticy, fantasy tropes, and we're going to chat about them. , I am very much going to be learning from. Kelsey, our Romance Romanticist Guru today. So this is going to be me learning more about this particular genre and we hope that some of our listeners will also learn something new today.

[00:08:51] Kelsey: And or find something to relate to because, , you know, I definitely would not say I'm like a guru in this area. [00:09:00] I know more than Amanda. Yes. , and so we're going to have a fun chat about, , my favorites, my X, maybe her X and, some interesting things that have come from book talk because that is kind of, I really feel like book talk was.

[00:09:21] Kelsey: The reason why romance and fantasy has like propel, propelled forward in a lot of ways in modern day because so I've said this on the podcast before, but like, not that long ago, romance was just seen as only trash. Right. With like the Fabio, like men on the covers. , and, , that it's only like erotica and all of that, but it's so much more than that.

[00:09:46] Kelsey: And now there's a different kind of following, these days. And that's like well seen on book talk. 

[00:09:53] Amanda: Yeah. So there are like Go ahead. All right. I keep on like jumping. I like, I [00:10:00] know you're about to start in on something else and I wanted to jump in before you started on another train of thought, which is, this is like a little bit of context for listeners is that I am not on tick tock.

[00:10:10] Amanda: Like we have our lit vibes only podcast tick tock, but I personally am not on tick tock. Yes. Have never used it personally. , have kind of avoided it because again, as a person with ADHD, I'm like, I feel like that's just going to be bad for multiple reasons for my attention and focus. And so it's really interesting because Kelsey is very kind of enmeshed, involved in that world.

[00:10:35] Amanda: And I think it has informed your reading in different ways and the way that you approach books and think about them. And I don't have that. background or contacts. So I think that's also something to keep in mind for folks as we're discussing different things, because I think it does shape our approach to different books.

[00:10:51] Amanda: , it shapes our preferences, our likes, our dislikes, because my interaction with other readers generally happens like in book club or like with people that I [00:11:00] know. , and so, yeah, I just, I wanted to highlight that because I think it does kind of inform a lot about our, our reading preferences and, and interests.

[00:11:07] Amanda: Anyhow, continue. 

[00:11:10] Kelsey: , so I was just going to say that there are hundreds of book tropes within the romance and fantasy and romance y genres. , and today we're going to kind of talk through some of my favorites and, , If, if they need explaining, , explain some to you. I mean, I think we could, I could talk about all of them really.

, so why don't we get into my current read. Okay. Which is still, , Glow by Penn Cole. And , in the first book too, it is an absolute slow burn. And this is one of my favorite book troops. It's where a book like, builds tension between characters, , where either they don't know that they [00:12:00] really like each other or love each other.

[00:12:02] Kelsey: And they're going through the motions of, , whatever it is, they're going through like the, , the issues that they're facing. Right. And then, , they're slowly kind of coming together as the book unfolds. And, , That's what like a slow burn is where the romance isn't like immediate. It's the tension building up to the moment that they actually end up together.

[00:12:25] Amanda: Okay. I have a question. Yes. I'm like raising my hand like a good student. So Is there? I'm assuming there is. I'm like, there is probably overlap between tropes because when you say slow burn, I immediately think of like rivals to lovers or like friends to lovers because that has an element potentially of slow burn, right?

[00:12:48] Kelsey: Exactly. And so, , one second. Okay. 

[00:12:52] Amanda: So Kelsey is currently battling a cold and I'm like narrating while you're [00:13:00] silently over there sneezing and convulsing and wiping your nose. Kelsey has a cold, so we're just taking a little break so that she can handle, handle her business. 

[00:13:08] Kelsey: Oh my God. Okay. I'm alive. I'm okay.

[00:13:11] Kelsey: But yeah, I am sneezing a lot. And, , if you can't tell, I am a little nasally. , so yes, you're exactly right with that. And connected to slow burn is one of my favorite, other favorite book tropes. Was it, which is enemies to lovers. So it's at the very beginning , the two love interests end up not liking each other.

[00:13:34] Kelsey: And they are enemies, sworn enemies. It depends on the book what level they are at. And, , unfortunately for me, even though I like these tropes, Oftentimes the misunderstanding trope comes along with the enemies to lovers and slow burn because there has to be a misunderstanding of the character, , in order to hate them [00:14:00] because in the end it oftentimes it's like, Oh, they actually were the good guy the whole time.

[00:14:07] Kelsey: , and so that is really fun for me. The misunderstanding annoys me at times. , Because it's like the characters are trying, you see something that the other, that the characters don't see. Right. And you're just like, why are you doing this? And it kind of adds to the tension of the slow burn. , yeah.

[00:14:30] Amanda: Cause the reader is aware of something that the other character is not. And you're like, yes. I mean, it reminds me of like I instant whenever I think of like enemies to lovers, the first book or the first story that always pops into my head or almost always is pride and prejudice. Oh yeah. Like that's such a classic example of yeah, we can't stand each other because we totally misunderstood each other for a variety of reasons or on pride and prejudices.

[00:14:55] Amanda: Yes. And, , and then they end up. Falling for each other at the end. , so I feel like out of [00:15:00] all of the tropes, that is the one I'm pretty familiar with and have engaged with a little bit already on this podcast. I also am realizing too, and I'm sure this will, I'll continue to have these realizations throughout this episode is that even though I don't read.

[00:15:17] Amanda: Romance, really? I do love rom coms, and I don't care like how trashy or stupid they are, I will watch them. Which I know, like, a lot of people who are listening are gonna be like, wait, what? 

[00:15:27] Kelsey: Yes, exactly. And I feel the same way, like books and movies, like I will watch a trashy movie. To no end. It doesn't matter. Like, I don't care.

[00:15:37] Kelsey: And I will read a book that is deemed like not well written or trashy or whatever, , and I won't care. I'm like, this is entertaining. And that's, I think I've said this on the podcast before, it's like, I'm just looking for entertainment. I'm not looking to be like educated or enlightened or like, yes, like all those things that can be nice at times.

[00:15:58] Kelsey: Like, , and I do crave that at [00:16:00] times. That is not like my go to want to be entertained with the book. And 

[00:16:04] Amanda: that's definitely, yeah, for sure. Another area where we're different. Like, I also love to be entertained, but if it's like, , as I've said a million times, if it's poorly written, It really pulls me out of it.

[00:16:14] Amanda: Unless it's a thriller and the plot is really weird and twisty. And I'm like, just want to know what happens. I'm like, I'll stick with it. Even if the writing might be a little bit lame. , yeah. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. Next trope. Jump 

[00:16:27] Kelsey: in. , so, like you said, a lot of the tropes kind of stack on top of each other and are intermingled with one another rather than, , completely separated.

[00:16:39] Kelsey: , so I would say something like forced proximity is also something that is like embedded in a lot of, , romance novels and fantasy novels. , I'm trying to give an example. Where so force proximity, I'm going to add this is a really funny one only one bed into this [00:17:00] So initially when I Started reading romanticy.

[00:17:06] Kelsey: I was like only one bed. It's so ridiculous. It's so stupid And there are times when I think it's super cringy Then there's times when I, I don't mind it so much. So in Mima, which is part of the AAR series, there's definitely forced proximity and then there's a scene where there's only one bed and it is very well done, in my opinion, , 

[00:17:28] Amanda: and I loved it.

[00:17:29] Amanda: , and , is there something we'll see that makes it the one bed thing. Better than I think it 

[00:17:36] Kelsey: and other books just for me, I think, cause some people are like, Oh yeah, I only, I love only one bed and they get like excited about it, but like, , it just depends like, because only one bed doesn't necessarily mean like something freaky is happening.

[00:17:49] Kelsey: It's, , , it's just that they're forced to be in proximity to each other essentially. And so when I'm thinking about powerless, , or maybe it was reckless, it was that series where there [00:18:00] was only one bed, but he actually ended up sleeping on the floor and, , she was in the bed. And so even though that was like forced proximity, they, there wasn't anything like freaky going on.

[00:18:10] Kelsey: I see. Yeah. So it doesn't necessarily mean that, , and it can highlight their personalities, , depending on how the author like manages it. Yeah. , Which I want to get into. , I think I've mentioned this to you before, but, , on Tik TOK, I don't know if this is beyond Tik TOK or like where this came from, but I see it heavily on Tik TOK where often women will be talking about their book boyfriends.

[00:18:40] Kelsey: And this isn't a trope, but this is like just kind of some fan responses to, , to books. And so that's very, very different from something like historical fiction, right? You're not really obsessing or enjoying like those characters in this way. , And so when someone says [00:19:00] their book boyfriend, they're just referring to one of the characters in a novel where they just, they just really liked them.

[00:19:08] Kelsey: And, , oftentimes it's just this character that they think can do no wrong. And, , Has just been really great to their, romantic partner, , and so that makes up a good book boyfriend. I 

[00:19:22] Amanda: remember, I think it was in our divine rivals episode.

[00:19:26] Amanda: Okay. Rivals. That I mentioned. Episode that you mentioned book boyfriend. And if that was the first time it ever heard that term, , but I will say this about like these kind of fan terms that have been created and also the names of the tropes. One thing is that one of the things that I do appreciate is that for most of them, you can glean the meaning of it from the name.

[00:19:47] Amanda: Yeah. Right. Like forced proximity. Got it. Right. , you know, enemies to rivals, book boyfriend. They're all terms. I'm like, you don't technically even have to go into a length explanation. They're pretty self explanatory, which I appreciate. I hate when things are [00:20:00] needlessly confusing and complex. Sure.

[00:20:03] Amanda: So, like, I will give points to the romanticy, the romance tropes for just being very direct. I like, I appreciate that. Absolutely. 

[00:20:13] Kelsey: . My hope, Amanda, is for you to find a book boyfriend. 

[00:20:17] Amanda: Ew! No, how about just a real one? Can I get a real one first and then we'll work on a fake one? Priorities. 

[00:20:27] Kelsey: , where you enjoy.

[00:20:29] Kelsey: , one of the characters so much. You're like, dang, I wish that 

[00:20:33] Amanda: was my boyfriend. I think it's when you first told me about the book, boyfriends are touched on them. It was like, that just kind of makes me sad. Like people are obsessing over a fake person instead of real person, but to each their own, to each their own.

[00:20:50] Kelsey: Yes. Yes. , so. Anyway, , you said just how like very to the point the names often are. 

[00:20:58] Amanda: Yeah. And [00:21:00] obvious. There's one you mentioned in, , our lit rex episode for this month as well, which I was not clear to me and I just thought of it. Is grumpy sunshine.

[00:21:09] Amanda: And I was like, well, yeah, grumpy sunshine, which is like one of the characters is a grump and the other one is super chipper and optimistic. And I was like, okay, well that makes sense. Now that you've yeah. Walked me through. 

[00:21:18] Kelsey: Yes. Grumpy sunshine is also, it's similar to enemies to lovers where it's like one.

[00:21:23] Kelsey: Or, , no, sorry. I don't know why I said that. 

[00:21:28] Amanda: Well, it could be because if they have clashing personalities, like they were, what could likely be enemies or, or rivals are just annoyed with each other. 

[00:21:38] Kelsey: From the get go. So, , yeah, it's just that one person is like overly like. happy and optimistic and the other is like, fuck life.

, there's a reason why these book tropes like work so well, right. And storytelling, , it just gives you a lot to, to kind of go off of and it's done differently everywhere. And, , Going back to [00:22:00] Lauren Roberts, she wrote Powerless and Reckless, she also wrote a small novella called Powerful, which is about a grumpy sunshine duo, , where oftentimes the woman is the sunshine character, and then the man is the grumpy character.

[00:22:16] Kelsey: , I think I've seen it done. The opposite way, but, , I can't think of like, I would like that actually, 

[00:22:21] Amanda: if the woman's grumpy and the guy's chipper. Yeah. Because it usually is the guy who, is the unapproachable one, the prickly one. Right, right. I would love to see that flipped on its head.

[00:22:31] Kelsey: I feel like I've read examples. I'm gonna have to look back at them to recommend some. Yeah. Maybe we'll read some. 

[00:22:39] Amanda: Because I'm also just thinking, because again, I've watched a ton of rom coms. I'm like, have you ever watched a rom com even? Where it's the woman where I'm sure I have.

[00:22:46] Kelsey: Yeah, 

[00:22:46] Amanda: that's definitely a thing. 

[00:22:48] Kelsey: Kind of going into that. It reminded me of a lot of fantasy and romanticy, especially oftentimes comes with like a really bad ass female character. [00:23:00] And I would say that Sarah J. Maas does a really good job of that. And that's like kind of a through line through all of her novels is like, there's always a really, bad ass fricking woman, , that defies all the odds and is smart and cunning and, can overcome like any obstacle.

[00:23:15] Kelsey: And so I see that oftentimes with her female characters and, , oftentimes in romanticy books, it'll be this 19 year old girl. Who is like supposedly mortal and then something happens to her where she either finds out she has powers or she, , gains powers and then becomes even more like unstoppable.

[00:23:40] Kelsey: And it's, , often referred to as like the chosen one. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. But for some reason always is this like 19 year old girl who just has not a lot going on for her, but . is strong maybe and then turns into this like really badass character.

[00:23:59] Kelsey: It's why [00:24:00] are they always 19? What is special about that age? I don't know. And then the other thing too, is I wanted to mention like, , age gap is another trope that, , I've heard 

[00:24:09] Amanda: about this too. Continue. I've, I've heard disturbing things. 

[00:24:14] Kelsey: Oftentimes romanticity. So fantasy in general will have immortals, , in their storylines.

[00:24:23] Kelsey: And And, , oftentimes the male, , is immortal and like 500 years old or something. And then it's this 19 year old girl 

[00:24:33] Amanda: coming along. It's like twilight. I mean, it's not a 500 year age gap, but it's like a hundred years or 80 years or something. And it's like, 

[00:24:40] Kelsey: at that point when it's that kind of age gap, I don't even like, It doesn't even register.

[00:24:47] Kelsey: I don't know why it doesn't matter to me, but if you give me a contemporary novel, I know about a 15 year old, 19 year old. I'm like,[00:25:00] 

[00:25:01] Kelsey: What 

[00:25:01] Amanda: is the difference? I don't, I don't know. I think it's weird. We'll stop, but I'm assuming that the reason why people have less of a reaction to it is because it's fantasy, right? So it's like outside of the normal boundaries and parameters of our world. And so like people are already inclined to kind of believe anything.

Whereas 

[00:25:21] Amanda: if it's based in reality and we're thinking about an actual 50 year old man with a 19 year old, like, and also the other element I would assume is because if you're an immortal or some type of immortal, you tend to look young. Right. So even though you're exactly, they look like a strapping 25 year old versus in reality, you know, an 80 year old man looks like an 80 year old man versus like a full 19 year old girl.

[00:25:49] Amanda: Yes. So I think that also is perhaps a reason why folks react differently. , but. I think it's weird because I'm like, again, like, and maybe there's no big message here, but I'm like, [00:26:00] what kind of messaging is this sending to younger readers? Maybe it's not, maybe it's not even like registering in that way, but I'm like, yeah, to have a guy who, again, is already in a position of power because of his gender.

[00:26:12] Amanda: And he's also way older than you. Like the way that it just, the way that the two characters are then positioned, I think is kind of freaky. And they get freaky, too. 

I know, and it's, oh, 

[00:26:25] Amanda: well. It's just, I don't know. I, that's like a weird, I don't think I'm going to get over. 

[00:26:32] Kelsey: When it's done well, so like Twilight, I don't think was done well in where he was like, grossly possessive and made the reader feel like he knew more than her.

[00:26:43] Kelsey: Right. And if he's older, sure. But it came off as like, Only I know the answers and you don't. You need to listen to me because I'm stronger and I know more and I'm wiser. Right? Like when it comes off like that, that's like, Ooh, I don't like that. [00:27:00] When I'm in a fantasy book, they do well to pair the two as if they're like equals.

[00:27:08] Kelsey: I like that more, , rather than there being like an imbalance of power. So you're 

[00:27:15] Amanda: saying like in these romancey books, they are. Conveyed in a way that there's like a balance between a power between the two of them. 

[00:27:21] Kelsey: Yeah. Or the male character, , again, in one of Sarah J Maas's books, I don't want to like ruin one of them for you cause we may or may not be reading them.

, , that care, that male character the way that she wrote him, he , very much wants her opinions and her like, , insight, insight rather than, Oh no, let me tell you everything you need to know, because I know best. It's definitely like a healthy relationship where you have the dynamic.

[00:27:48] Kelsey: And then they end up being as powerful as each other. And so it's not like he has more power than her. It's like. They're, they're equals. And so I like it when [00:28:00] it's written that way. Okay. I mean, I'll give that to you. That sounds better. Versus, yeah, versus Twilight where it's like, She had zero power and he knew everything.

[00:28:11] Kelsey: It just came across like icky to me. 

[00:28:13] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:28:14] Kelsey: , so yeah, , kind of weaving into all of that cause they're all super connected. , but we've spoken, , I don't remember if it was on the podcast or not, but about faded mates. 

[00:28:25] Amanda: We talked about it in the Twilight episode. 

[00:28:27] Kelsey: Okay. Yeah. So I suspected that , Bella and Edward like faded mates, but, , yeah, so there's just like this, this trope where it can be done well and done horrendously, , where basically these mates have this bond and oftentimes they can like talk to each other, like in their heads, , telepathically.

[00:28:49] Kelsey: Yes. , where nobody else can listen or, and they can feel each other's like emotions and things like that through this bond. But sometimes it is in a [00:29:00] position where like the people don't actually want to be together, but still faded 

mates. 

[00:29:06] Kelsey: So not every time there's a faded mate, do they actually want to be together or will they be together just because they're faded?

[00:29:14] Amanda: Oh, I like that. Actually. I feel like that would be a trip that I would enjoy. 

[00:29:20] Kelsey: I like 

[00:29:20] Amanda: the tension. Yeah. Between them, like feeling like they're supposed to be together, but maybe they don't want to be. 

[00:29:28] Kelsey: And, , I'm curious because there is a situation in one of Sarah J Maas's books where that has happened.

[00:29:35] Kelsey: And, , We don't know yet if those two are going to be together or not, but it, I feel like the fans would prefer not. 

[00:29:44] Amanda: Well, I just love it because then it leads to a larger discussion about what is fate and is it real? And if so, are we destined to follow a particular path?

[00:29:53] Amanda: Like, where does our agency factor in? So I don't know, in my head, that would make for an intriguing story and [00:30:00] discussion. So like this, this is making me interested. I like this one. I like this one done that way. Cause if it's just our fated mates and they're meant to be together and they're together, like blah, boring.

[00:30:11] Amanda: But if it's like, Ooh, they're meant to be together, but like they don't want to be others. Like this tension between like, They have other desires. I'm like, yes, tell me more. 

[00:30:20] Kelsey: Yes. Yes. I could see you getting into that. , especially in this particular case, I'm thinking of it's the woman that doesn't want to be with the man and the man is like pining over the woman.

[00:30:30] Kelsey: And, , she's like the fuck away from me. Oh, , I'm actually with this conversation. I'm starting to think that you might actually like throne of glass. , have you ever heard of it? 

[00:30:42] Amanda: Of course I've heard of it. Yes. Okay. I, I do want to assume anything. No, you also, because you mentioned it on this podcast and one of our previous episodes, you're like, this is the book that I'm currently reading.

[00:30:55] Amanda: Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. 

[00:30:56] Kelsey: Yeah. I think he would like Selena Sardothian. [00:31:00] She's just like this crazy badass woman who was , trained to be an assassin. And so she is an assassin and like can kill anyone she wants to and does, , at the drop of a dime, like she will, , if you insult her or if you like insult people, , that are important to her or if you're a job.

[00:31:17] Kelsey: And, , so I just, I think you might get into that character. 

[00:31:23] Amanda: I mean, maybe she sounds compelling and like a character I would enjoy. Also quick interjection, just made me think because you said at the drop of a dime. Yes. I think she means like the drop of a hat. Oh, maybe. Yeah. And I was like, it just made me think of like that conversation from our very first episode.

[00:31:41] Amanda: We were like, yeah! Like, there are these expressions and I like, I feel like I don't. The drop of a hat. I was like, ooh, yeah, this is one of those examples. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. Because there's another expression that's like, What you something like on a dime. What am I now? I'm like, yeah, there is. Yeah. I think you combined the two of them to like, at the drop of a dime, [00:32:00] which I like, actually I like the alliteration.

[00:32:02] Kelsey: , But anyway, and like the early on books, there's not a lot of romance. And I feel like you would like that. It's more plot. And, , it's so interesting because , Sarah J. Maas wrote those books when she was 19, like wrote the first one when she was 19. Is that why they're all 19? It came from her. , so it's interesting, but anyway, 

[00:32:26] Kelsey: I wanted to talk about, , we saw class differences also in, , divine rivals where, yeah, where, , yeah, there's 

[00:32:35] Amanda: oftentimes there's 

[00:32:37] Kelsey: that. And we saw it in, it ends with us. , yeah. 

[00:32:43] Amanda: What's his 

[00:32:44] Kelsey: name? 

[00:32:47] Amanda: Oh gosh. Ryle, when they were 

[00:32:49] Kelsey: young during the young version. Oh, Alice, you're talking about Atlas and Alice?

[00:32:53] Kelsey: Yeah, Alice and 

[00:32:54] Amanda: Lily. 

[00:32:54] Kelsey: Lily, 

[00:32:55] Amanda: yeah. Yeah, because I 

[00:32:56] Kelsey: was like, yeah, . [00:33:00] And, , so anyway, that's just another like difference you can have with characters. Yeah. , I feel 

[00:33:05] Amanda: like that was also like a really big trope in.

[00:33:08] Amanda: like, romances from ages ago because like class also was, I mean it's still a thing, but it was even more of a thing in the past. And so I feel like if you read older, romance novels or older books that feature romance prominently. You see a lot of that too. Yeah. 

[00:33:24] Kelsey: Yeah. , kind of diving more into fantasy, , the academia trope.

[00:33:30] Kelsey: So this is just when the characters go to a, , Go to a special school. Like a fantasy school. Oh yeah. So that's Harry Potter. I was gonna 

say , , , 

[00:33:42] Kelsey: I guess that's in the will of the many as well. , that's a really popular fantasy book, , that I dnf, . , but then Lo Sona, the one I talked about. Mm-Hmm.

[00:33:54] Kelsey: in or Litre September episode. Mm-Hmm. . , that is also an academia trope. , it [00:34:00] involves them going to school. Mm-Hmm. , . And so, yeah, so that is just another trope that is, that is out there that's popular. , and some people really hate it, but I tend to like those ones. 

[00:34:13] Amanda: Yeah, I feel like, , the one fantasy trilogy that I've read that I love and have obsessed over as I, and I think I might've mentioned this on this podcast.

[00:34:21] Amanda: Podcast. Maybe not. Is the Red Rising Trilogy. Oh, yeah. By Pierce Brown. And I think that would probably also fall into the academia trope because they go to this like, academy to train in the first book. Yeah. It's been a long time since I read them. So I think it would probably, that, yeah, I think that would also count.

[00:34:39] Amanda: So wait, I want to hear about some of the tropes that you did. Don't like, yeah, like that's what I'm waiting for. 

[00:34:46] Kelsey: , so yeah, we can get to that. , I made a small list, , because there's not a ton that like I hate, but for sure these ones I do. And I think [00:35:00] possibly mostly as an educator, like I don't like them, 

but.

[00:35:04] Kelsey: , I don't know, in general, like, I, I generally don't understand why they would like them, but like the teacher student relationships. 

[00:35:13] Amanda: Is that a trope? I hate 

[00:35:14] Kelsey: that. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:35:16] Amanda: Oh, weird. Cause that's like a taboo. So it's weird that that's like, 

[00:35:22] Amanda: Okay. So tell me more about this. Is there like a weird, like, is it appropriate, is it a weird age gap too?

[00:35:29] Amanda: So 

[00:35:29] Kelsey: sometimes it's like university, right? So it's like a. Okay. Like a professor and like a 

[00:35:35] Amanda: college student. 

[00:35:36] Kelsey: Yeah. , and this also ties in with like forbidden romance. , cause obviously like you're not supposed to sleep with your students. , And this also can come up with like coach to student. , I guess there's, Tons of like romance, , novels sports romance novels that include like a coach to student or coach to player, I guess you would say, , romance.

[00:35:59] Kelsey: And I [00:36:00] just immediately get the ick from that. Oh yeah, 

[00:36:03] Amanda: like real 

[00:36:03] Kelsey: bad, like instantly. And like the power dynamic , and it's not, it's no longer really fantasy. It's more just romance. And I'm like, Ooh. 

[00:36:14] Amanda: Yeah. And I think too, we spent so many hours. In training as teachers and educators about like, do not do this ever hear all of these boundaries X, Y, and Z.

[00:36:25] Amanda: And it's just like drilled into us. So just the thought of 

[00:36:28] Kelsey: that. And then just this being entertainment for people, I was like, Oh, dang, I don't know that I don't like that. I'm bored with that. I can't, 

[00:36:38] Amanda: I just, I can't. 

[00:36:39] Kelsey: , so those are a couple that I really don't, I don't pick up ever. Okay. Okay. , So the other thing is like second chances.

[00:36:47] Kelsey: So for relationship didn't out right. And then, they get a second chance essentially. And I guess it depends on like how the relationship ended in the first place, but I've just not been that [00:37:00] interested in that kind of story. 

[00:37:03] Amanda: I feel like the only way I would feel okay with it as if it had like a well thought out redemption arc for the, the person who.

[00:37:11] Amanda: Was the cause of the end of the early, if, if it was like one of the individuals who was the cause of the end of the relationship and not just like life's circumstances, I would get me back on board. I was like, you're going to really have to convince me with, yeah, like a really strong redemption arc or some way to indicate that they've truly like grown, changed, learned, et cetera.

[00:37:32] Kelsey: Yeah. 

[00:37:33] Amanda: Otherwise I'd be like, really don't know. Keep moving forward. Eyes ahead. 

[00:37:39] Kelsey: , And the last one I have on my list that I'm like, I just feel really impartial to, , is like any type of pregnancy trope or secret pregnancy. , I'm not a huge fan of it. I just feel like it always the trope. Like what? No, it's just that like pregnancy is involved.

[00:37:56] Kelsey: Like there's a secret pregnancy or there's the woman gets pregnant. , [00:38:00] And it's just, , I don't know. I, we saw in, it ends with us. If you remember. Oh, wait. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And, , I just feel like it often turns into like this story where the woman again is taking like the brunt of like decisions that you both had made.

[00:38:22] Kelsey: And like, it just depends on how it's done, but I'm not like drawn to pregnancy tropes. Is there one 

[00:38:29] Amanda: that's been done that you did like? Can you think of a story in which, because I don't think I can, although I've read like contemporary fiction where like, obviously, you know, people get pregnant over the course of the story and blah, blah, blah, like that's fine.

[00:38:46] Amanda: But in a romance or romantic setting, yeah, 

[00:38:51] Kelsey: I don't read a lot about it. Yeah. 

[00:38:53] Amanda: Yeah. And I just, I instantly think of, , Twilight because, you know, like Bella gets [00:39:00] pregnant and that's so problematic because the baby's killing her and yeah.

[00:39:06] Amanda: And that, that's the only kind of thing that comes to mind and it was really problematic and bad. So I'm like I know I can't get on board with this at least within the context of, of romance and fantasy and other genres, like it's fine for me, , if the, the story warrants it, but. 

Yeah.

[00:39:21] Kelsey: So I don't know. , not something I'm drawn to. One funny thing. Oh, I just wanted to say like forbidden romance though, like not associated with teacher, student, coach, student. I can get down with a forbidden romance. That's not anything to do with like, an inappropriate power dynamics or like, yeah, like weird pyro dynamics or like illegal things like that just like gross me out.

[00:39:45] Kelsey: , but when it's like in a fantasy world, this can work where, , One is mortal and one has the power, right. Or has power, like special powers. And they're of like a different, like race essentially is how they kind of deem them. [00:40:00] And so, , In the book I'm reading right now, mortals and what are called descendant are not supposed to have children, , and not supposed to ever be together.

[00:40:09] Kelsey: , that's like a forbidden romance as well. Or like a king cannot be. , romantically involved with someone of a lower class status, right? Like those are forbidden romances. Okay. 

[00:40:22] Amanda: So yeah, so then there's that crossover between class. divides and forbidden romance. 

[00:40:28] Kelsey: And with the book that I'm, the series that I'm reading right now, Link of the Everflame, so she has burn, she has spark, she has, , glow.

[00:40:36] Kelsey: , I get the sense that They are going to cross like, , social divide, social, is that what I'm social barriers. Right. And it's going to dive into like the, , the issues of class and, , even racism in a different, in a different way in a fantasy novel. But like, I think that it's actually [00:41:00] going to, , Meet those things head on, which I'm excited about, , which often doesn't happen in fantasy books.

[00:41:07] Kelsey: Yeah, , so 

[00:41:08] Amanda: I'm 

[00:41:09] Kelsey: looking forward to how this continues. 

[00:41:12] Amanda: You'll have to keep, you'll have to keep us posted. Are you okay over there? Kelsey's having another sneezing fit. I, I feel so bad. Just like witnessing, bearing witness to this.

[00:41:26] Kelsey: I know and they'll just come out of nowhere. I'm just like doing a thing and then it's like, Oh no, there's a sneeze.

[00:41:32] Kelsey: , yeah. Once we're done recording, I am a hundred percent laying in bed or the couch and just reading for the rest of the day because I just feel icky. 

[00:41:40] Amanda: I hope you feel better. And I bet you can take a nice, quiet afternoon to read on the couch. That sounds like an ideal way to spend a Sunday 

[00:41:49] Kelsey: afternoon, though.

[00:41:50] Kelsey: , so yeah, that kind of like wraps up 

the conversation around 

[00:41:56] Kelsey: book tropes and romanticy and fantasy books. I feel [00:42:00] like I, 

[00:42:00] Amanda: I feel like I, I learned things and Because again, I don't see myself reading a bunch of romance in the future, aside from what you're going to make me read, but it's, it's nice to be able to, as I watch rom coms and things like, Ooh, I know what trope this is.

[00:42:11] Amanda: And I know exactly what the name is. And we'll also just as a kind of little, , plug for a future episode, I will also be doing a thriller tropes episode with Kelsey and teaching Kelsey and other folks about some common. tropes in the thriller slash mystery genre because there are also quite a few. , and it's funny because unlike Kelsey, and again, I guess it's probably because I'm not on like book talk and I'm not like following other folks who read thrillers.

[00:42:39] Amanda: I don't know off the top of my head what the tropes are. I know I've encountered them. I know that I'll recognize them when I see them, but I don't. Already know them in advance. Yeah. So I'm, I'm excited to like learn what they are and learn their names and then get to teach you guys about them. So wait, yay.

[00:42:56] Amanda: Awesome. Well, that wraps things up for us for this [00:43:00] episode. Thanks for joining Kelsey. Do you want to do socials for us? And so I kicked them off at the beginning. 

[00:43:05] Kelsey: Yeah. So again, follow us on YouTube and, , tick talk at lit vibes, only podcasts and on Instagram at lit vibes. Only underscore podcast. So you can tell us what you think and follow us, rate us, comment, engage, , all of the things help us be seen as a new podcast.

[00:43:28] Kelsey: We love the support. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 

[00:43:30] Amanda: Yeah. So yeah, feel free to engage with us on our socials. We've got lots of fun content that we're posting every week and we want to hear from you again. This is very much a community venture and it only works if you're a Folks are like chatting with us, leaving comments.

[00:43:45] Amanda: , yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Alrighty. Well, we will see you next Monday. See you next Monday. 

Bye.