Lit Vibes Only
Kelsey and Amanda are two book besties who love to "Lit the Sh*t" out of books they love and hate! In their Lit it or Quit It episodes, Kelsey and Amanda are forced to read the other's favorite books. While Amanda loves to read historical fiction and mystery/thrillers, you'll find Kelsey curled up with just about any romantasy. They discuss the books at length and, in the end, decide whether the book is a "Lit It" or "Quit It"! Every month they'll also give some book recs you just can't miss. Look out for the bonus episodes about bookish topics and books that were adapted into movies/shows.
Listen in and choose whose side you're on, or perhaps find yourself intrigued by a book you wouldn't normally go for. See you on Mondays!
Lit Vibes Only
Bonus Episode: Lit Scripts: It Ends With Us
Join Kelsey and Amanda as they tackle the book and movie version of Colleen Hoover's 'It Ends With Us’. They provide their own insights into the handling of domestic violence, the problematic casting and wardrobe choices of the movie, and the drama surrounding the cast. Tune in for a mix of deep analysis, personal insights, and a sprinkle of chaotic energy.
Follow us on TikTok & Youtube @litvibesonlypodcast and on Instagram @litvibesonly_podcast. We'd love to hear from you!
See you on Mondays!
Lit Scripts: It Ends With Us
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[00:00:00] In order to make choices that are best for you, please note that this episode does include lengthy discussions of domestic violence.
[00:00:14] Kelsey: Welcome to Lit Vibes Only, where we lit the shit out of books we love and hate. I'm Kelsey. And I'm Amanda. Welcome to our podcast.
[00:00:27] Kelsey: Am I doing socials? Yes. We literally just decided. I thought I was just doing the welcome. No, I did welcome and socials, Kelsey. Okay, please forgive us, everyone. We are recording after a work day. And it is hitting me. Okay. So hard to be such an interesting, welcome and, , you can find us on Instagram at live vibes, only underscore podcast and on Tik TOK and YouTube at live vibes, only podcast.
[00:00:59] Kelsey: [00:01:00] We would love to hear from you. , we are on Instagram like almost daily, , and, and I both. Tag team that I mostly do. TikTok but yeah, so do you wanna tell them about our sticker?
[00:01:11] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Abs I would love to, , never before
[00:01:14] Kelsey: seen. Like first
[00:01:16] Amanda: generation stickers have been seen at this point multiple times, but build the hype.
[00:01:25] Amanda: I appreciate that. , yeah, we've got stickers and they're amazing and they're of our logo. And if you would like. To get your hands on some, here's what you need to do. You need to hop on wherever you listen to your podcasts. You need to rate and review us. Please leave us a positive review. And then you're going to want to take a screenshot of that bad boy and send it to us on our social.
[00:01:49] Amanda: So either Tik TOK or on Instagram, send us your screenshot, send us your address, and we will get you a sticker. We've already sent out a few and we're super stoked. , or you can email us. [00:02:00] It's at lit vibes only podcast at gmail. com and we will also collect your information that way. , so please. Please review us.
[00:02:07] Amanda: Let us know what you think. , We'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear your thoughts, what you do and do not want to hear from us. Yeah. Not that we'll take heed.
[00:02:15] Kelsey: We want to improve and you know, if the general consensus is, please stop doing this particular thing, we might consider it.
[00:02:26] Kelsey: What was your workday like Amanda?
[00:02:28] Amanda: I just, it's just been very busy. I know I mentioned this and like our first episode when we were talking about like who we are and what we do. And this is my first year as a department chair and I'm loving it. I think it's a good fit for me, but it's also just like a lot of new, just like a lot of new stuff and new things to think about and new routines I need to build and so, yeah, Instead of just kind of going through the motions, like I have done in previous years, like I know my curriculum, I know my class, I know what to do with kind of a lot of like muscle memory, so to speak, [00:03:00] there's just a lot of building things and thinking about things in new ways.
[00:03:04] Amanda: So it just takes a lot of energy. And like mental energy that I wasn't expending in previous years. So yeah, I'm just like, and I had my first apartment chairs meeting this afternoon as well. So, which was exciting, but I was like, just like, Oh, stuff. So like
[00:03:20] Kelsey: you, Oh wait. So the department chairs got together.
[00:03:24] Amanda: Yes. Okay. So we had our department meeting yesterday after school, which I led my department meeting for the rhetoric department. And then
[00:03:30] Kelsey: was that your first
[00:03:31] Amanda: afternoon is, well, no, I led one during, , our opening meetings in August and I also led one at the end of last year as well. , but so that went, that was fine.
[00:03:40] Amanda: But then, yeah, today all of the department chairs got together for the first time. , yeah. So I'm just like, I'm I'm finding my groove. I'm finding my groove here. How about you? Same.
[00:03:50] Kelsey: I just realized today, so I get very stressed in my job. Go figure. , I would imagine like all my teachers [00:04:00] and, you know, the admin that I work with, our counselors, like we are definitely like stretched.
[00:04:05] Kelsey: , and it's, it's a hard job sometimes. And right now I'm sitting on like Over a hundred emails that I haven't read. , and I'm so trying so hard to get through them and some of the stuff is important, you know, like I need to get to them. , but, , I realized this afternoon that I stopped taking my GABA supplement.
[00:04:27] Kelsey: So I got married in July. Right. And so I, , I was taking GABA for stress and I can literally feel the difference when I'm taking it and not taking it. So I, , I can feel the stress in my body right now. And I was like, what the, why am I so, why do I feel like this? , and it's mostly like in my chest that I feel it.
[00:04:46] Kelsey: I don't know. If everybody feels it that way, but, , that's where I feel it. And I was like, Oh, I was taking GABA, which, which really supports like stress relief. Oh, [00:05:00] and, , and then
[00:05:00] Amanda: the other thing, the
[00:05:02] Kelsey: other thing too, I've noticed my brain is more chaotic right now. And I think GABA really helps. Really helps calm your system in general.
[00:05:10] Kelsey: And so my ADHD is like off the fricking charts right now. Yeah. And I was like, why am I struggling so much? , it is likely because of that supplement. And you need to
[00:05:20] Amanda: send me the information
[00:05:21] Kelsey: for this
[00:05:22] Amanda: because
[00:05:23] Kelsey: it is actually very supportive. I can't live without it. And clearly, , I just forgot about it.
[00:05:29] Kelsey: Yeah. Which, okay, ADHD brain, , makes sense. , but yeah, I was just like, now I'm feeling like so out of whack. So yeah, I, , and I was just sick too. And so I'm like recovering from that. And, , I was out Monday, which also like the reason why I missed so many emails earlier in the week. And so it just puts this whole like damper on my week.
[00:05:52] Kelsey: I'm trying to catch up on everything.
[00:05:54] Amanda: Yeah.
[00:05:55] Kelsey: So, yeah, I just feel, , super chaotic. We're like
[00:05:59] Amanda: heading into [00:06:00] this episode. We're just scattered and chaotic. Our ADHD is off the chart, so y'all buckle up. So we'll see what happens. Who knows what's going to happen in this episode. , it is going to be our first lit scripts episode.
[00:06:13] Amanda: I'm so excited. We're super stoked about, especially because in this particular episode, we're going to be discussing a movie and a book that came out quite recently within the last couple of months. And that I think a lot of our listeners are going to be Familiar with, and it is curious about, it ends with us by Colleen Hoover.
[00:06:32] Amanda: , yes. So, yeah, we're just gonna, what we're gonna do in terms of the structure of this, you can correct me, Kelsey, if I'm wrong. We're gonna kinda summarize the plot of the book since that came first, especially for folks who may not be familiar with it. And, . Perhaps give a little bit of our thoughts , on the book itself.
[00:06:48] Amanda: , we'll then talk about the movie and only mention the plot points that are different, different from the book. , and then we're just going to kind of talk about them together. Like, , what we liked, what we didn't like, and because there's a lot of controversy [00:07:00]
[00:07:00] Kelsey: around this, around this movie.
[00:07:03] Amanda: We also dive into that a little bit.
[00:07:05] Amanda: And again, another opportunity, right? If you have watched the movie, read the book, done both and have thoughts, please share them. Please comment on this episode, especially if you listen on Spotify or like get on our socials
[00:07:16] Kelsey: and let us know
[00:07:17] Amanda: for sure. We would love that. Absolutely. Do you
[00:07:20] Kelsey: want to like split the summary?
[00:07:21] Kelsey: Y'all we got some feedback. About our summaries. So we did are doing our best now to have some sort of outline for our summaries. So, , let us know what you think about that difference, or do you like the chaos? Do you want
[00:07:41] Amanda: to
[00:07:42] Kelsey: do so I'm in the document now, do you want to do the highlighted and I'll do the Sure.
[00:07:49] Amanda: Yeah. Cool. So, , the main protagonist of the book is Lily Bloom. And Lily Blossom
[00:07:57] Kelsey: Bloom,
[00:07:58] Amanda: Lily Blossom [00:08:00] Bloom. , and the book opens with Lily. On a rooftop in Boston, , in a kind of an introspective moment, her father, her abusive father has just passed away and she's been at the funeral and her musings are interrupted by a man coming onto the roof and like kicking a chair, having a moment.
[00:08:18] Amanda: And that is Ryle. And, , essentially they start chit chatting, some flirtation happens and, , Ryle very much wants to get with Lily, but makes it very clear. Like he's like in it for one night stands. Doesn't want a relationship. Doesn't want a family, just want marriage. And Lily's like, no, thank you. , and so that's how the book opens.
[00:08:37] Amanda: , you know, time passes. I think it's like six months. Lily gets an inheritance, , from her father passing and she decides to use that money to open up a. Flower shop that she's wanted to for forever. And it's a little ironic because of her name. , she ends up hiring Alyssa who we find out it later is Ryle's sister to be essentially like her assistant in the shop.
[00:08:59] Amanda: And so [00:09:00] she starts to form this friendship in this bond with Alyssa, not knowing she's Ryle's sister. And she's And because of their relationship and because Ryle is obviously in Alyssa's life, their paths cross. , I think in the book, Lily, you know, hurts her ankle at the shop and then Ryle, , is one of the folks that shows up to assist her.
[00:09:17] Amanda: And so like their paths start to cross and eventually after much persistence from Ryle, And him finally saying that he does have feelings for Lily and doesn't just want to sleep with her. They decide to start dating. So they start a relationship and it's right about this time in the book that we start to flash back to Lily's past.
[00:09:36] Amanda: So there's two timelines happening in the book, the present, and then, , Lily as an adolescent and it tells the story of Lily and her high school friend, Atlas Atlas is an unhoused young man who comes from his own turbulent, , Family relationship. He's currently living in the abandoned house behind Lily's house.
[00:09:54] Amanda: Lily is well off. Lily's father is well respected in the community, but Lily's father, [00:10:00] yes. , but Lily's father is abusive and abuses, , primarily the mother. There's not a lot of abuse happening between Lily and her father, which complicates things. And, , , we find out that Lily and Atlas from this relationship, which then turns romantic, , Atlas ends up leaving to go to Boston, but comes back, I believe on Lily's 16th birthday , they end up having sex for the first time.
[00:10:24] Amanda: Lily's father finds them together, freaks out, beats Atlas with a baseball bat, , so much so that he has to be taken away. To the hospital. And that is the last time that Lily sees him as an adolescent. , he promised that they were like going to find each other and go to Boston and all of these things doesn't happen.
[00:10:41] Amanda: , and so then we flashed back to the present and, , you know, Ryle and Lily are still dating and we encounter like the first domestic violence situation with them, which is that Ryle's pulling a casserole out of the oven. One day burns his hand. Lily kind of finds the whole thing a little bit funny. , she laughs and then he pushes.
[00:10:59] Amanda: [00:11:00] Lily, and hurts her.
[00:11:00] Amanda: , and I'll stop there and let you, let you pick up the rest of it.
[00:11:03] Kelsey: Lily's mom comes to town They go to this restaurant together and it's, , it actually happens to be Atlas's restaurant. And so Lily sees him for the first time since childhood and, , definitely has like a moment where she's like, Oh my God, that's Atlas.
[00:11:21] Kelsey: , and, , Then also
[00:11:23] Amanda: I'm going to jump in because I made a mistake. The DV situation, the casual dish happens after the dinner that you're talking about right now. I like, Oh yeah, that line. So no
[00:11:31] Kelsey: worries. And then, , Ryle confronts Lily and, , it's like, Oh gosh, where have you been? And dah, dah, dah.
[00:11:39] Amanda: So they, that happens. Then there's the DV situation that I talked about with the casserole dish. , and then they end up going back to Alice's restaurant because Alyssa and her husband are celebrating like her pregnancy
[00:11:50] Amanda: Yeah. And
[00:11:51] Kelsey: so, , so then they're, they're again back at the restaurant. Yeah. Yeah. Lily has opened her flower shop and things are going great. . And, , Lily from the [00:12:00] DV situation, , incident, she has like a bruise on her eye and Atlas, , from his experience with Lily's father, like , knows exactly what's going on and is concerned for Lily.
[00:12:12] Kelsey: And so, , they kind of, , exchange a moment where she realizes she knows that Atlas knows, that, , Ryle is the one that gave her that bruise. And so she ends up going to the bathroom, , and Atlas follows her into the bathroom and confronts her and is like, leave him.
[00:12:29] Kelsey: You need to leave him. I know he's abusing you, , and he's trying to be, like, You know, just, thoughtful person trying to like help her out. And they're in the bathroom together alone and they come out and Ryle is right there and, , Ryle gets really worked up and tries to fight Atlas and they kind of get in a scuffle and then, , Lily and Ryle and leave and, , they know to never go back to that restaurant.
[00:12:56] Kelsey: , and Ryle asks her. Some questions about like her relationship with [00:13:00] Atlas, , because when they first met, , , She mentioned Atlas and so he's like, okay, are you still interested in, is there something going on here?
[00:13:07] Kelsey: , , the next day, Atlas comes to the flower shop to talk to Lily and he gives her his number , like opens up the case. And it's like, if you ever need me, here's my phone number. , slips it in and then. And, , she's just persistent. Like I I'll never need it. I'm not in that situation.
[00:13:26] Kelsey: , she's really not, , confronting like what's actually happening now. There's a second, , DV situation. And, ,
[00:13:35] Amanda: And at this point, Lily and Ryle are now married. They went to Vegas. Oh, okay.
[00:13:38] Kelsey: So yes. So now Ryle and Lily are married and, , there is a second DV situation incident where, Ryle finds Atlas's phone number and, , , he is going down the stairs and she's following him.
[00:13:54] Kelsey: And then he pushes her down the stairs and she blocks out and doesn't [00:14:00] remember exactly what happened. , And he, again, in this situation, is trying to play it off as an accident, like, he didn't really do that, , she fell, , and that's what he ends up telling her, , and she's like, no, like, you pushed me, and so that's like a, a very, , You know, telling a situation and she's starting to kind of figure those things out.
[00:14:20] Kelsey: Then, Alyssa, the sister finds out that this had happened and Alyssa helps Ryle come clean about like his own traumatic past , , Which was they had a brother and, , their brother died because ryle shot him they were like playing around with
[00:14:39] Amanda: their dad's gun.
[00:14:40] Kelsey: Yeah. And shot his brother and he died. , and so Lily kind of ends up being really empathetic around that situation is like, okay, he can change. Like, I know he's trying to do good. She kind of talks herself into like staying with him. This is when things kind of get really [00:15:00] bad.
[00:15:00] Kelsey: So the other thing about the book is that the way that you're going back in time is through Lily's journals. , and so she's reading her old journal entries that. Kind of outline what happened with Atlas and how she fell in love with him and like, how her dad beat him.
[00:15:18] Kelsey: And so, Ryle ends up finding her journals. He also found the magnet that, , is like from Boston and she
[00:15:25] Amanda: Boston
[00:15:26] Kelsey: better in Boston.
[00:15:27] Kelsey: And so he makes the connections of, , These things and knows that this magnet is from Atlas and that all of her journals, like say that, you know, she really loved him. And in this DV incident, he actually like headbutts her and even tries to rape her. , so Lily at this point calls Atlas and then she's in the hospital with Atlas and she discovers that she's pregnant.
[00:15:54] Kelsey: She doesn't tell Ryle she's pregnant.
[00:15:57] Kelsey: , and has a heart to heart with, , his [00:16:00] sister. And Alyssa. Tells her that I'll never forgive you. If you. Go back to him because Alyssa understands like she loves her brother, but doesn't want Lily in that kind of situation. And then Lily is still like, you know, debating whether or not she's going to end up with Ryle and
[00:16:20] Kelsey: Ryle does find out, about the baby , , she slowly lets him back into her life. And then, she, , has the baby. As soon as she has her baby, , she tells Ryle, , like literally in the delivery room that she wants a divorce and he obviously, , doesn't want to agree, but really, and it comes full circle and she says, What would you tell your daughter?
[00:16:46] Kelsey: If her husband hit her if her husband tried to rape her and, , there's a line in the book where she's like, it ends with us. And she's including rile in that and her baby. , and then in the very, very end, she [00:17:00] runs into Atlas after the baby is like, , I don't know, less than a year, but you know, older.
[00:17:04] Kelsey: And, , they ended up getting together.
[00:17:06] Amanda: , that was really long. I might have to, that was
[00:17:08] Kelsey: really long. But we got a lot of the details in and I think
[00:17:14] Amanda: the good thing is that.
[00:17:16] Amanda: the movie does do a good job of sticking really closely to the book and so we kind of, we did very much summarize both of them for you. , so I guess. In talking about the book, , I read this book well before there was any talk of like a movie and all of that. And I remember, for a long time, deliberately choosing not to read this book.
[00:17:40] Amanda: Because everything I had heard about it, or what I heard most often, was that this book romanticized Domestic violence. And obviously I found it really problematic as just a lot of people. So I was like, I'm not going to read this book. I'm not going to support this author and, you know, and read this book.
[00:17:55] Amanda: , but then I encountered one of my friends who read it and who liked it and kind of had a [00:18:00] different take on it versus what other people were saying, which is why I finally read it. And we can talk about this. Like in my personal opinion, I actually thought it was such a nuanced. and even though I've never been in a DV situation, realistic portrayal of domestic violence that dove into the kind of the gray areas of domestic violence instead of just painting it out like the abuser's the bad guy full stop and doesn't actually dive into the ways in which the abuser can be charming and charismatic and also potentially the victim of their own traumatic past.
[00:18:41] Amanda: , and I thought that the book did a great job of helping us see why Lily fell in love with him, why she stayed with him because it's never that simple. It's never right folks on the outside,
[00:18:52] Kelsey: you
[00:18:53] Amanda: know?
[00:18:53] Kelsey: Yeah. , I would, I think I, I agree with you mostly. , just that I grew up [00:19:00] in a household that, , where we, you know, my dad was abusive.
[00:19:04] Kelsey: And so, , it very much is like, you know, you always want to ask, like, why did the woman stay with? The abusive man. Right. And obviously it's like, not, that's not the right question. And I think that this book, the way that it's written really dives into those aspects. Yeah. I think it does a good job of like understanding where Lily is coming from.
[00:19:28] Kelsey: And like a DV situation doesn't just start out as a DV situation. It's out as a gradual, like leap into that, right. It's not. It just happens overnight. And so, , the fact that there were three different situations in this book where, , she was, you know, she was abused, really helps paint the picture and she was gonna like, give, like, go back to him.
[00:19:53] Kelsey: And there were times when in the book that he ended up getting angry and then corrected [00:20:00] himself. Right. And he was like, I I need a break and like, I need to leave. There was a situation where that happened . And so that gives really hope that it's not going to happen again.
[00:20:09] Kelsey: I do struggle a little bit with, , Ryle not every, not every abuser would be like, willing to like work in that way. Right. Willing to work on themselves. , and so I think that this is a possibility but sometimes that's not the situation, right?
[00:20:27] Kelsey: Like my mom and my dad, like looking back at that. I don't think my dad was ever being like reflective of his experience. And, , so yeah, I don't think that this is, this is, Impossible this situation. It definitely doesn't represent all situations. , and so I just, I just want to be clear about that too. I think that's what the issue is that people have in it, right? It's like he it's actually showing who he is.
[00:20:55] Amanda: Well, if we're going to talk about this in an upcoming episodes, I believe we touch on [00:21:00] it in one of the episodes that will be coming up in October for our Lit Racks, when we talked about like, when you are reading a story, you are reading one story and therefore information about one situation or one person.
[00:21:12] Amanda: And so I do think if you're going to try and take the situation with Ryle and Lily and Ben. Yeah. Try and apply it broadly to domestic violence. Like of course there are going to be discrepancies. There are going to be differences, or of course there are going to be things that don't line up, but this is one way in which domestic violence can show up in a relationship in this particular dynamic.
[00:21:34] Amanda: And so I think having, you know, on social media, , seen people, including the video sent me on Tik TOK, , where folks who have been in similar situations that very much mirrored Lily and Riles relation, like, yes, I feel seen like I've been that person I've been in that situation and this ring really true for me.
[00:21:53] Amanda: , so yeah I get that. It doesn't. reflect, isn't reflective of all DV situations, but certainly this is [00:22:00] one way in which domestic violence can show up. And I appreciated again, that. It also dove into like why rail is the way he is and not as an excuse for his behavior to explain that often people who are perpetuating violence or hurting others are hurting themselves.
[00:22:18] Amanda: And, you know, that's not, you know, like we, we know that hurt people, hurt people, but I think that it did make that part of the storyline, because again, It can be one of the things that factor in as it did in this story. , when a woman is making a decision about whether or not she stays, because she's like, well, I feel empathy for him.
[00:22:35] Amanda: Like he did experience something really traumatic. He's trying and he did, you know, this didn't impact him. It was outside of his control and all of these things. So, I did not think it romanticized it. And I think we're, we're folks are getting that from is that at least from the book before like the movie came out, was that like, Oh, well like riles handsome and he's charming.
[00:22:55] Amanda: And , he's charismatic and he's wealthy. And so because the [00:23:00] abuser like looks all shiny and sparkly, somehow they equated that with romanticizing domestic violence. I think that is ridiculous. There are plenty of like good looking, wealthy, intelligent, charming, also perpetrators of domestic violence.
[00:23:14] Amanda: So I think that's a really lazy connection to me. , and that really bothered me. , I think the other side of romanticizing it is that, yeah, the book, when you look at the cover, if you, if you've seen the cover of the book, it is like, Florals and it has
like,
[00:23:30] Amanda: you know, you know, like it does look like it's just going to be a fun little romance.
[00:23:36] Amanda: So I will give folks that if they're talking about it, romanticizing it in that way for sure. But if you're talking about just the text itself, I actually don't see that.
[00:23:44] Kelsey: Yeah. , the other, the other point I wanted to make too, is like on the tail end of things at the very end, Ryle does just pretty much accept like the divorce.
[00:23:54] Kelsey: , and Lily was able to say that to him and like have it land in a good way. And I think that [00:24:00] was another point of where were like, that's unrealistic. Duh, duh, duh. , yeah, I, I could see that point of view. I don't, again, I agree that it's, I don't think that it is romanticizing. That's not the feeling that I got from the book, but I could see that being kind of a pain point because I was in a very, not a DV situation, but like I had a partner that was, , emotionally and abusive.
[00:24:28] Kelsey: And when I left that person that was not my experience. They tend to get like very angry. , and so I think that people who were , you know, going through a DV situation, which I think were the, the majority of the people that were like, , complaining about this point, right.
[00:24:47] Kelsey: I think that it makes sense. Like, it's just that I understand like having big feelings about like a portrayal of DV, right? And so like I said, and you said [00:25:00] this is one portrayal of that and it doesn't mean that it's Portraying all stories and if it doesn't portray your particular story like that's okay And these stories can exist like anywhere In the same space, you know, ,
[00:25:16] Amanda: I will, I will also say too, and cause I read the sequel, which is, , it starts with us. , and it does dive in a little bit more to Ryle's post divorce behaviors because it isn't interesting. It isn't this clean, easy break. So it ends with us. It's not the end. , and so for those folks who might've been like, Oh, that was too easy. , it does dive into kind of the complexity in the second book.
[00:25:43] Amanda: There's other things we could say about the book pros and cons, et cetera. We won't get into that, but it does show the reader that it wasn't just a cut and dry, simple break. Everyone's happy. That's not what happened.
[00:25:55] Kelsey: , it's a little more complicated than that. Yeah. And that's what I think is true about [00:26:00] life.
[00:26:00] Kelsey: Yeah. These situations. , you know, I would say the other thing that kind of lends itself to this idea is that Colleen Hoover has been, , Oh God, I'm having trouble with words today. Has been accused basically of, of herself. Like, romanticizing domestic violence. And so part of. The issue with her is my understanding is that the way that she promotes these books are all about, this is a romance book.
[00:26:34] Kelsey: This is a cute romance book. And like, if I had, if I had no idea what I was getting into, , this would have been a really hard read for me. I mean, it already was a hard read because every time I read about something like Devi, I get triggered. And so it was already a hard read. And if I went in blind thinking, Oh, this is just about cute.
[00:26:53] Kelsey: A lot of people did. Yeah. A lot of that. I definitely find problems with that. , and that [00:27:00] kind of lends itself into how Holly Hoover and, , Blake lively wanted to, and did promote this book. This movie,
[00:27:08] Amanda: which, yeah, which is so interesting because I've been thinking about this because I know a lot of what we're saying, like, it's not new.
[00:27:14] Amanda: There's not like a lot of this stuff has been talked about at length on, on social media and different platforms . But one of the things that I'm curious about, cause I did not read this book like when it first came out and it was first on people's radars. Yeah.
[00:27:26] Amanda: And. Yeah. So. I'm curious. I'm making an assumption, but based on interviews with Colleen Hoover, she wanted to write this book because of the abusive situation that she witnessed, , with her mother when she was younger. , her mother ended up leaving and got remarried, et cetera. And like, that's where this book came from.
[00:27:47] Amanda: So it came from a place of like authenticity and from lived experience. And so I think she started off in a great place. I think the book took off, became super popular. And I think [00:28:00] things have changed for her since then. I think they're definitely, and again, I'm making assumptions because I don't know.
[00:28:04] Amanda: But I think the popularity and the fame and the money has definitely shifted perhaps, her perhaps away from her original intentions. Because she's a social worker. I found this out. She is a social worker. Like currently? She was
[00:28:18] Kelsey: a social
[00:28:19] Amanda: worker. She started dabbling in writing like for fun. She self published her first book, which I think was called slammed on like Amazon.
[00:28:28] Amanda: And that like randomly took off and became super, super popular. And then she decided to kind of switch over and become a full time author. And so I think what we're seeing perhaps. is the influence and impact of sudden, sudden, quote unquote, fame, popularity, and the ways it can shift perhaps our moral compass a bit.
[00:28:46] Amanda: , and making choices that I don't know, pretty fame Colleen would have made. , cause I think a lot of this came on pretty suddenly for her. And she's talked about that as well. Like I didn't expect any of this to happen.
And
[00:28:59] Amanda: so I do [00:29:00] wonder, cause I agree with you. I think the way that she has marketed the book at this point, the way that she's come up with like her nail polish lines and like, how it's all about the flowers and their girliness.
[00:29:08] Amanda: And it's like, no, this is about domestic violence.
[00:29:12] Amanda: ,
[00:29:12] Amanda: I do just wonder about. Yeah. How money and fame has played an influence on who she is now and how she's marketing the books that she wrote.
[00:29:19] Kelsey: Okay. I just looked it up and Colleen Hoover, cause I was like, she has like over 20 books.
[00:29:24] Amanda: I think over 20, right?
[00:29:25] Kelsey: 26. Yeah.
[00:29:27] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. So she's just like
[00:29:29] Kelsey: busting them out, , continually and like, yeah, I'm looking at the release dates. And I'm like, every single year, sometimes two a year.
[00:29:39] Amanda: Mm
hmm.
[00:29:40] Kelsey: Yeah. So she's very much capitalizing
[00:29:43] Amanda: on her, again, which is very strategic, right? Yeah. , but I think, If you're going to choose to write a book and then help produce a movie about something like this, like that needs to take a backseat, your concerns about income [00:30:00] and fame and popularity like that takes a backseat to this story that you're trying to tell and what that means for so many people and the ways that you can use your platform to help people I don't think she utilized.
[00:30:12] Kelsey: Oh, no. Yeah. Transcribed And I think that's where, like, the, the drama within the cast, has really sprouted from.
[00:30:23] Amanda: Yeah.
[00:30:23] Kelsey: I think people don't talk as much about Colleen Hoover, as much as I've seen about Blake Lively.
[00:30:32] Amanda: No. Yeah. She's kind of taken like this back seat, but she's also very much on, if we're talking about sides, like she's very much with Ryan and Blake.
[00:30:41] Amanda: in this whole venture. And we have like Justin Baldoni on the other side that's like, Hey, remember domestic violence? Remember the women that we're trying to like, support and raise awareness for and like all of these things. And they're just like, wear cute florals and come to the movies with your [00:31:00] girlies.
[00:31:01] Amanda: , it's unfortunate because, and I don't know how you feel about it. I actually liked the movie aside from like, and we can talk about that later about some, like maybe the casting of Lily and the sister and the outfits. But in terms of the story that was told, because it did so closely aligned with the book.
[00:31:18] Amanda: Yeah. And because it also did a really good job in the way that it showed those moments of domestic violence you were like, wait, was that did some, was that domestic violence? Did I see that? Right. Like exactly. They made it really ambiguous. , because in those moments when it's happening, The women are the victim.
[00:31:32] Amanda: It could be a man as well. , it's like, wait, what just happened? And can I trust my own experience? And I thought the movie did a beautiful job of that as well. So overall, I actually liked the movie. , I have no major critiques of like the content of, of the movie. , yeah.
[00:31:49] Kelsey: , I, I actually really liked the book.
[00:31:52] Kelsey: And movie, like I thought they were both pretty solid. And it was funny. I actually went with my mom and my sister, , and my [00:32:00] sister and I were like crying in the movie. , yeah, it was definitely like, obviously, you know, emotionally triggering and just, , I loved the scene with Lily and, , Alyssa. At near the end where she's like, you don't fucking get back with him.
[00:32:18] Kelsey: Yeah. , it was a good moment, but yeah, no, no plot like issues. Really? Yeah, just there was like less of the DV situation actually, because there were three in the book and two in the movie, I think.
[00:32:32] Amanda: Nope, they're all three in the movie.
[00:32:34] Kelsey: No, I don't think so.
[00:32:35] Amanda: The castle, the pushing down the stairs and the attempted rape , they're all in there.
[00:32:38] Kelsey: Oh shoot, you're right. Okay. Yeah, they are.
[00:32:40] Amanda: Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Which I think, yeah. Again, great choice. I think they all need to be in there. And I think it, as you said, when we were talking about the book, it's just the escalation of violence and the severity intensity, right? It keeps getting worse because every time it's the worst time that she's injured.
[00:32:56] Kelsey: I think what I remembered now is that it didn't show like [00:33:00] the talk with Ryle after the second one. Correct. And then like their correction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And, you know, movies don't have time, , they have to cut things. And so, , that was the part that I was like, dang, dang, that was cut. , and the fact that he had a, had a moment in the book where he corrected himself, ,
[00:33:22] Kelsey: yeah.
[00:33:22] Amanda: Yeah. And I think like, like you mentioned, like the, the messaging of the movie and the messaging of the book, I think are consistent. And even though a couple of things were cut from the movie or the timing might've changed a little bit, it's still very much told the same story and much the same way.
[00:33:40] Amanda: And I came away with very much the same impression again, this is a nuanced situation. , There is black and white and there's also gray. And you can get a better sense again of why a person might find themselves in this situation to begin with and why they might stay. And I think that understanding is so crucial for folks who are not in DV situations and have [00:34:00] never been in one.
[00:34:00] Amanda: It is so easy. And I've been guilty of it too. And just be like, well, like. Yeah. And unfortunately, right, we're, we're wired to be like, why doesn't the woman leave instead of asking, like, why the fuck is the guy doing this to begin with, right? That's the question we should be asking. But because of the way we're socialized, like, oh, we're putting it on the woman, right?
[00:34:18] Amanda: Exactly. And so I do like that about this book and this movie, because I think if you, if you are someone who's going into it, With any sort of self awareness and desire to learn, what you'll come away with is like, I need to like, slow my roll and I need to stop judging folks who find themselves in those situations.
[00:34:34] Amanda: And I can also now better see how that happens and how it could actually happen to me. Like it could happen to anybody. Cause it's always like, Oh, it's just like a certain type of person who would ever find themselves in that situation. Like, no, literally anyone. Yeah. Could find themselves in that situation.
[00:34:47] Amanda: And I think the movie totally make that really
[00:34:49] Kelsey: clear, which I,
[00:34:50] Amanda: I really liked.
[00:34:51] Kelsey: Yeah. And while Lily was like this really strong woman Mm-Hmm. , , yeah. She found herself in, in a situation like that.
[00:34:59] Amanda: [00:35:00] Yeah.
[00:35:00] Kelsey: Yeah. When she, very much was like, I would never do that because Mm-Hmm. , my mom was in that situation.
[00:35:06] Kelsey: Mm-Hmm. . I can't, she saw all the things that her mom went through and, , yeah. And her mom in the, in the book never left. Her dad, and she was with him until the day that he died. And, , so I think in the book, it leaves a lot of questions for Lily. , and it's like, gosh, mom, why did you? I know there was like a moment in the book, it's like, Mm-Hmm.
[00:35:29] Kelsey: why didn't you leave him? , again, though, putting the, the burden on women. On women victim.
[00:35:36] Amanda: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The victim. Exactly.
[00:35:38] Kelsey: Yeah.
[00:35:38] Amanda: Yeah.
[00:35:39] Amanda: ,
[00:35:39] Amanda: well I know one of the things that you didn't like, 'cause we've kind of talked about things that we have, we did like Mm-Hmm. . One of the things you didn't like, and I'm looking at the notes, is that you did not, there are two things that you wrote down.
[00:35:49] Amanda: One is that r casting for Alyssa. And the clothing choices, like the wardrobe choices.
[00:35:56] Kelsey: So I, well, okay. I actually thought Lily was [00:36:00] wrong casting. I was like, it's too
[00:36:02] Amanda: old.
[00:36:02] Kelsey: I thought she was yes. And just, I didn't like how she. Played Lily as much. , she kind of came off as like, , what say? The only words that's coming to mind is like doofus.
[00:36:16] Kelsey: She was just like an airhead. Yes. Oh, I remember Lily. Lily didn't come off to me that way in the book, but she definitely came off to me that way in the movie. Just like kind of laughing at everything. Like Raya would say, and it was just like, I'm kind of airheady ish.
[00:36:32] Amanda: , I get that impression, but okay.
[00:36:33] Kelsey: But, but also. Her clothes may have played a factor in that.
[00:36:37] Amanda: They were so zany and off the wall and not at all in line with how I imagined Lillian. No,
[00:36:43] Kelsey: not at all. And so I just, yeah, it was just that those pieces did not fit for me. And, , so yeah, I thought that she, yeah, Lily could have been played better in my opinion.
[00:36:56] Kelsey: And then. Yeah. Go ahead. I see. I just want to jump
[00:36:59] Amanda: [00:37:00] in before you got to Alyssa because I have to backtrack. So I also had big issues, not so much with, I thought Blake Lively was too old to be playing the character in my opinion. And so I did the issue, I didn't necessarily pick up on the airheadedness quality, but that's, you know, that's a fair point.
[00:37:15] Amanda: The thing I will say though, that really distracted me and that I really didn't like was the wardrobe choices. And so I did a little bit of like Googling before this episode and it turns out that the costume designer. That worked on this movie was also her costume designer for Gossip Girl and in Gossip Girl, like her character, you know, it's like this super wealthy socialite.
[00:37:36] Amanda: And so she could get away with wearing things that were like edgy or like whatever, whereas like it does not work for Lily's character.
[00:37:42] Kelsey: No.
[00:37:43] Amanda: At all.
[00:37:45] Kelsey: Yeah,
[00:37:46] Amanda: every, literally every time she came on scene and like a new, cause I love costuming. I did it in college. And so I'm very hyper aware of costuming in movies.
[00:37:55] Amanda: And so every time she would come into like a new scene wearing something that was like the first [00:38:00] thing I looked at and I was like,
[00:38:01] Kelsey: yeah, like who, they even, they even doubled up on some of her stuff. Like she was wearing the same thing a couple of times. And I was like, Oh, that's an interesting choice.
[00:38:12] Kelsey: Like, I, I don't know that I've. You don't see that very often. You don't see it. You don't see it
[00:38:15] Amanda: often. I didn't mind that so much. It's just, I like, I don't want to see these pieces again. Cause I it was distracting. It was distracting. Because I noticed it. She pulled stuff. So again, I found this out from research.
[00:38:25] Amanda: She pulled some of the things she wears in the movie are her own items, Ryan's clothing. And also she's friends with Gigi Hadid. And so it's also some of her pieces.
So
[00:38:35] Amanda: she's just like, and again, it goes back into her wanting to promote this movie in a certain way and make it a little rom com where she gets to look good.
[00:38:43] Amanda: And it's like, that's not what the Of the movie is, but anyhow, go back to, we're talking about this.
[00:38:48] Kelsey: Well, I mean, on tick talk, , everyone's still talking about this. I see those, those videos coming up still like time and time again, , where. It's just something [00:39:00] about the, the movie. Right. And then, , one of the things that's coming up recently is that like target, I think has started carrying, you know, those pants where it's layered of like shorts and then pants like
[00:39:11] Amanda: the box or above and it's actually like sewn
[00:39:14] Kelsey: in.
[00:39:14] Amanda: Yep. Effects
[00:39:16] Kelsey: of it ends with us. Like. Please. No, please. No, I really don't think those are going to sell well. ,
[00:39:23] Amanda: honestly, you'd be surprised what my students come to school in. So I, well, yeah,
[00:39:28] Kelsey: I've never seen a student in something like that. So I have
[00:39:32] Amanda: before the movie came out, but it wasn't my theme. Well, no, it was, I, I have had female students already doing like the boxer briefs above like the, the wide leg.
[00:39:40] Amanda: Yeah. That's yeah. That started last year actually. Yeah.
[00:39:45] Kelsey: Wow.
[00:39:46] Amanda: What were you gonna say about Alyssa though? Because you didn't like her casting.
[00:39:49] Kelsey: I didn't like her casting because I can't take that actress out of Parks and Rec.
[00:39:57] Amanda: I know, she's
[00:39:59] Kelsey: such a zany [00:40:00] character. And like her, her, her, , nasally high pitched voice too.
[00:40:05] Kelsey: It didn't match Alyssa to me because Alyssa was like this warm, , woman who was like trying to get pregnant and like, It was just kind of motherly almost to Lily and, , was a little older than Lily then. I don't think they ever said their ages, but I, , that's the feeling that I got from Alyssa and Alyssa felt younger.
[00:40:27] Kelsey: Then Lily in the movie. And so
[00:40:31] Amanda: interesting. I thought they felt like they were the same age.
[00:40:34] Kelsey: Yeah. I,
[00:40:37] Amanda: I don't know. I did have your reaction when she first came on scene and I figured out who she was and I was like, Oh, would not have cast her.
[00:40:45] Kelsey: No.
[00:40:45] Amanda: And then, and then I remember almost immediately after thinking, Oh, but I think I could also in real life.
[00:40:51] Amanda: see the physical similarities between her and Justin Baldoni and people being like, that's why we're going to cast her. They look like they could be related because they [00:41:00] do. , but I, I, I also, I love Parks and Rec. I've seen every episode. I've watched the season. So it is very hard to erase that image of her as I'm watching this very serious movie.
[00:41:13] Kelsey: Gosh. Yeah, exactly. And I don't know that I can see Justin Baldoni in her like Looking related. Cause you know, they have the siblings look related. They do. They do. They're fucking airheads. And like, they just like the whole thing. That's too funny. , yeah, those were my biggest like beefs with the movie.
Blake Lively. Could have just been pulled out, pulled out, looked out and then, , I almost like looked up other actresses. Who I
[00:41:43] Amanda: would, who would I cast instead of Blake Lively? , I, I didn't decide on anyone or hadn't decided on anyone.
[00:41:50] Amanda: I need to give it more thought. , yeah. But yeah, I probably, I, yeah, to your point, I probably would have recast both of those roles.
[00:41:58] Amanda: So one, and this is just like a [00:42:00] general note, and then we can like move on to like final recs and wrap things up, but. , so if I watch a movie and then find out after the fact that there's a, that it's based on a book, I will not go back and read the book. I don't think I've ever done it.
[00:42:15] Amanda: And I have a very vivid imagination. And so. , I, I can't then read a book having someone else's images in my mind. Like it just, it does not work for me. And so I always have to read the book first and then watch the movie. And I will say, , it was a little bit freaky in the movie because the scene on the rooftop, the way that the roof looked and everything was like exactly how I'd envisioned it in my mind when I was reading.
[00:42:40] Amanda: And I was like, this is so weird. Like, yes, you nailed it. This is also how I thought this. This like scene would look not necessarily play out, but how it would look. Yeah. And, , that was, that was interesting, but I am, this is like a little bit of a tangent, but I am that kind of reader. I will always read before I watch and I will never go back and read something after I've watched it.
[00:42:59] Amanda: I'd never [00:43:00] read it before. Like never, ever. It's like a hard and fast rule.
[00:43:03] Kelsey: It's not a rule for me, but I definitely, , Oh my God, prefer. I was literally saying the word and it. escaped my mind.
[00:43:16] Kelsey: I prefer reading it.
I prefer
[00:43:19] Kelsey: reading it before watching the movie. And so I, that's what I did with, , it ends with us, but I just recently read it. Cause I, I'm, I'm not super into Colleen Hoover and I was really nervous about getting into her books. I was very surprised that I liked it. , so, but. I think we're going to be reading you're going to be reading another
[00:43:38] Amanda: calling the Hooper book and I think another November episode.
[00:43:41] Amanda: So yeah, that that's, that's a wild ride.
[00:43:45] Kelsey: I, yeah, there's, it's very polarizing that book. Oh, it is. Yeah. I've heard like really great things and really. And we're going to have a great discussion. So
[00:43:57] Amanda: stay tuned for more, , final [00:44:00] recommendations, , Kelsey book and, or movie, would you recommend that folks watch this movie and, or read this book or both?
[00:44:07] Kelsey: Dang. I actually didn't really think about it. , do you want to go first? I mean, well, I'm thinking. Yeah. I don't necessarily recommend them. They're okay. Don't.
[00:44:19] Amanda: So you don't recommend them. Okay.
[00:44:20] Kelsey: Like I liked them, but I don't necessarily recommend them. Huh? Interesting. That's how I feel. Do you want
[00:44:28] Amanda: to tell us why?
[00:44:30] Kelsey: Well mostly like. It is a very triggering topic and I just want people to be careful with like, you know, how, how they approach that. And I wouldn't necessarily recommend that for everyone. , I, it wasn't, it wasn't like a amazing book either. Like it was a, it was a solid book that, you know, had sounding so straight, I'm like clear plot lines.
[00:44:56] Kelsey: , it had a clear, like, Theme [00:45:00] and follow through right like and it's not like amazing writing or anything. It's just okay and the movie like I liked it, but I don't necessarily think I would like recommend it to people.
Mm hmm.
[00:45:12] Kelsey: I don't know I
[00:45:13] Amanda: I think I would recommend it with warnings, right?
[00:45:23] Amanda: Obviously with trigger content warning, because I do, I have not read a lot of books about domestic violence. I've heard some, and I've encountered it in books where there are moments of, right? Like the whole book's not about it, but there are moments of it. This is, I think the first book or one of the first books I read where , it is about DB.
[00:45:42] Amanda: Like that is the, the main book. Crux of the plot. And it's why this book exists. And because like I said, I think it handles the subject matter in a really thoughtful way. I would recommend it to people. I think, , again, this book is not like, I don't even know if I gave it five stars or anything [00:46:00] like that.
[00:46:00] Amanda: But, , I do think the portrayal of domestic violence is one that can be really helpful for folks. Who have never been in that situation to increase their awareness and empathy and help them recognize again the ways in which domestic violence can show up in a way that's not so like obvious and in your face because it can't show up that way.
[00:46:17] Amanda: But I think I would just as again as a way to raise awareness and educate people. , in terms of the movie, , I think I would recommend it to people who'd read the book. Because I feel like if you read the book and you'd quote unquote enjoyed, I feel like enjoyed it's the wrong word, but got something out of it, I think you would also get something out of the movie as well because they're very similar.
[00:46:37] Amanda: , I think the only caveat to both of those things is , do we want to support Colleen Hoover right now?
Yeah.
[00:46:44] Amanda: I don't know. Maybe just borrow it from Blake. Or Blake Lively. Or Blake Lively. So that's like a little bit of like my own like, I don't know if I feel comfortable right now. I mean, I already spent the money on, you know, we did episode.
[00:46:56] Amanda: Yeah. , but that would be, I think my one little like disclaimer. , yeah. And [00:47:00] I think it's one of those situations too. Like, do you like, do we separate the art from artists kind of situation? Right. Even though she's making kind of questionable choices right now, does that in any way discount this work that she's created that can actually, I think, be quite beneficial in a lot of ways.
[00:47:15] Amanda: So I'll leave it at that. Yeah.
[00:47:18] Kelsey: And folks, This may be one of the only times that Amanda and I will agree.
[00:47:25] Amanda: We have moments of agreement in the various Legend Recorded episodes, but you're right. Yes.
[00:47:31] Kelsey: This
[00:47:32] Amanda: is a rare moment, so enjoy it. All right. Awesome. Wow. Thanks for joining us, folks. Yeah. I've also realized that I always say that at the end, like, awesome.
[00:47:42] Amanda: And then I'm like, let's drop things off. Fantastic. , great. So yeah, comment, , on our episodes, leave us back on what you thought , this is a conversation that's still happening, especially on socials. So what did you think? And, , we can have a chat. We can interact. , all right.
[00:47:56] Amanda: Well, thanks guys. And, , we'll see on Mondays. Yeah. On [00:48:00] Mondays. Bye.