Lit Vibes Only

Lit it or Quit it: None of This is True

• Lit Vibes Only • Episode 2

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Amanda and Kelsey dive into the wild, twisty world of Lisa Jewell's 'None of This is True.' Spoiler alert: Kelsey thinks the characters are dumber than a box of rocks, while Amanda tries to play devil's advocate! 

CW: There are mentions of pedophilia and domestic violence in this episode. Listener discretion advised.


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Ep. 2: Lit It or Quit It: None of This is True
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[00:00:00] A quick note before we begin. While Kelsey and Amanda enjoy debating for your entertainment, we want our listeners to know that Lit Vibes Only is an inclusive community that honors all tastes and respects all readers. Enjoy this episode! In order to make choices that are best for you, please note that this episode does contain mentions of pedophilia and domestic violence. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Lit Vibes Only. I'm Amanda. And I'm Kelsey. And we are so glad that you've tuned in for our second episode. , we are a brand new podcast. So if you want to learn a bit more about who we are, how this podcast is structured how all this came to be, make sure to pause, take a moment, go back and listen to our intro episode. So this is going to be our first, , lit it or quit it episode. Yes. But wait, before we do that, we want to, [00:01:00] we want to make sure that we tell people where to find us on socials because we are not good about remembering to say that. So do you want to list those operas? Yes. We have Instagram and we are lit vibes only underscore podcast. We are also on TikTok lit vibes only podcast and on YouTube as well. Same as TikTok lit vibes only podcast. Awesome. Yeah. So be sure to follow us on socials. And if you are someone who loves to watch podcasters podcasting, instead of just listening, feel free to check out, , the video recordings of these episodes on our YouTube channel.

[00:01:42] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: So yeah. We're going to do something that Kelsey introduced me to. Do you want to explain to our readers what AOB is? Yes. Oh, you say DAB of the day, Amanda. DAB of the day. Thank you for correcting me. I appreciate it. So we're going to begin every episode [00:02:00] with our top of the day.

[00:02:02] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: , so I'm going to start out with my drink. I also kind of on the side, make these mocktails that represent book characters or books. And this particular one represents a character from Powerless by Lauren Roberts. , her name is Adina and she is a very sweet, kind, gentle person. Brings a lot of light to everybody's lives and is very optimistic.

[00:02:32] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: She loves honey buns in the book and, , she actually, you know, some spo we're gonna be filled with spoilers on this, and so, we just want you to be aware of that and, spoiler, she doesn't have the best ending in that book. And I wanted to create a mocktail to honor her as a really a favorite book character.

[00:02:58] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And so it's a [00:03:00] sweet peach. , What else does it have in it? Honey mocktail. So it is really yummy. , so anyway, this is for Adina and my outfit of the day. I was at work today, so I have some, you know, professional clothing on. , It's just a black button down, , short sleeve shirt. And I wore some green jeans with it today with white sneakers.

[00:03:31] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And then finally, the dob, the ending of dob is what book are you reading today? And I'm currently reading It ends with us by Col Hoover. Oh. Because guess what? Oh my God. We're so controversial. Someone's going on with that book. Oh my God. not the book, right? Well, kind of the book. Well, the book and the movie.

[00:03:50] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I should, it's going on with the movie. But, , but we wanna do a podcast episode of the book and the movie. So of course I have to read it and I'm enjoying it so far. , but we'll get [00:04:00] to that more in a later episode. Yeah. That'll be one of our future Lit Scripts episodes. Yeah. So be sure to keep an eye out for that.

[00:04:06] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: , in the coming. Weeks and months. Alright, so I will, I will dob, I will dob your DOB of the day. I'm dm my DOB of the day. . So my drink, , I am not as fancy as Kelsey and I do not make mocktails or cocktails. So this is a, a premix to margarita, , that I try to a bit by putting in some, some cut strawberries, , to give it a little bit more kick and some summary sparkle.

[00:04:31] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Very nice. So nice. There's that. My outfit's super basic because I'm pretty basic when it comes to clothing. I've just got on a white tee. You should see my t shirt drawer, like half of it is just white t shirts. And then I was working out before this, so, , I just have a pair of like black Lululemon biker shorts, super comfy.

[00:04:49] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: That's how I roll. And then I am currently reading, , Chain Gang, All Stars. By Nana Kwame Ajebrenia. I think I said that [00:05:00] right. If not, I apologize. I literally like Googled an interview, like three seconds before we started this podcast to make sure I pronounced it right. And I probably still didn't. So apologies, Nana.

[00:05:11] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I hope I'm saying your first name correctly. , but thoroughly enjoying it. , definitely we'll have to maybe also do something with this book in the future. , just really great. So yeah, that is my My, my job, it's my job of the day, my job of the day. I'm dubbing. I feel like I need to like turn this into a verb before you, you know, while you're ahead.

[00:05:32] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: All right. All right. I'm just, I'm like, once again, showing how I'm cool. I am. All right. It's done. No, no, no, no, no. Wait, there's another, , trend on TikTok going around. We're doing our job of the day. It's very demure. It's very fancy. It's very cutesy. I just watched that. so yes, we're going to be very demure. Okay. , so yeah, well, let's just, let's do that thing. Let's jump right in. So, , I can't wait. We still haven't talked [00:06:00] about this book. And we were like, we were starting to discuss it before we hit record. And we were like, no, we've got to wait. We've got to like, keep it fresh for our audiences.

[00:06:08] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: But, , if you haven't, , listened to our intro podcast, this is a quick recap to explain to you what our lit it or quit it episodes look like. So essentially, on this particular episode, I forced Wonderful, Kelsey, to read a book that I enjoyed in a genre that I enjoy, which is thriller slash kind of mystery.

[00:06:31] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: It's a Lisa Jewell novel called None of This is True. And in just a moment, I'm going to ask Kelsey if she lit it. Did she like the book or did she quit it? Did she absolutely hate it? And then of course, we'll jump into a summary of the book and a discussion from there. , and so these are the episodes in which we are very much.

[00:06:49] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: On opposing sides and defending . Our, our, our feedback, our impressions of, of the book plot, characters, author, et cetera. [00:07:00] So Kelsey, none of this is true. Lit it or quit it. The people want to know . It is very much leaning, more towards quit it. But it just, it's a mid book. It's a mid, mid book. I, I can't, it's definitely not a litter.

[00:07:16] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I can't listen to this at any. Right. Like there's no way I would say lit it to this, but quit it. It is very strong. And I would say it's like. Mid to quit it. Mid to quit. Okay. I can. I like that. I like that. , well then why don't you, , tell, , our lovely listeners, , kind of a quick summary of the book for those who either haven't read it or it's been a while since they've read it.

[00:07:42] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: , or, you know, you just kind of need a quick refresher before we get into the nitty gritty. Yeah. Before I get started on that too, I just full. Just full transparency. , Obviously these episodes are going to be full of spoilers. So if you do not want to be spoiled with anything from none of this is [00:08:00] true, this is not your episode.

[00:08:01] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: If you are coming here and you've read none of this is true and you have a very strong feeling about the book or just want to hear other people's opinions about the book, this is a great place. If you have no interest in reading this book, also a great place to be. That's just going to be entertaining.

[00:08:16] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Regardless of spoilers. Okay. So. None of this is true by Lisa Jewel. It is about these two women, Alex and Josie, who meet each other, I think in the first chapter. Mm-Hmm. . And, , they happen to have the same birthday and were born the same year, and they find this out, , pretty quickly once they meet each other and Josie.

[00:08:43] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Kind of becomes a little stalker ish and seeks out Alex and her information. And it turns out that Alex is a podcaster just like us and she, yeah, and she [00:09:00] specializes in women's stories who have like reached success or their own definition of success. , and so. Josie ends up seeking Alex out because she has an idea about how to further her podcast and recommends to be on Alex's podcast because she's going to, she says she's about to change her life.

[00:09:23] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: So why don't you do a podcast about a woman who is going to get there? Rather than a woman who was already there. And Alex feels a bit bored with the podcast that she's currently doing. , the podcast format, I would say. And so Alex is intrigued by this, , stupidly, and then it kind of. Goes down from there.

[00:09:43] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Josie starts telling her story to Alex and, , it's a bit eye opening and shocking where she says that, , you know, she eventually gets to the fact that her husband is how much older than her? Like 30, 30 some [00:10:00] years, and they met when they, when she was 13, right. And then got together when they were, when she was 16.

[00:10:08] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And so she kind of tells that story, , of her husband being a pedophile. And then she had two children with him and still is with him to this day. So Alex is like, man, there's a story here. There's a story here. And they keep going down this rabbit hole. And eventually. Josie ends up, you don't find out all the details in the book, but what you do find out is that Josie has a fight with her husband, something went down, and she ends up at Alex's house and stays with Alex.

[00:10:41] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: At this point, Alex is still like confused about her relationship with Josie. Some weird things have been starting to happen and she just doesn't fully trust Josie, but still allows her in her house and to stay in her home, , with her [00:11:00] child and her, Oh, does she have a child? Oh my God. She does, but yes.

[00:11:04] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And she's also, I think one of the reasons I'll interject and Josie basically says that, you know, her husband has assaulted her. And so that's right. This issue of domestic violence, which I think also Causes Alex to be more inclined to let her into her home and stay. Sure. Sure. Why are you saying it like that Kelsey?

[00:11:26] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Eventually we find out that Josie was lying and, , I don't remember exactly what happens, , While she's in the house, but she basically ends up leaving evidence, making Alex believe that her husband is a bad guy and cheating on her. And eventually we find out that Josie kidnaps. , Alex's husband and also has killed her own husband.

[00:11:52] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: It wasn't, , a domestic violence dispute. Well, I suppose it is because she was the killer, but not the husband. , and her [00:12:00] daughter is in the hospital. , and then. I feel like I'm botching this, , summary. No, I think you're doing great. I would just interject quickly that Josie and her husband Walter have two daughters.

[00:12:13] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Yes. One of them is Erin, who, , is a bit of a recluse, still lives at home, and is some sort of gamer. , really leaves her bedroom, has weird eating habits, like will only eat baby food. , you know, Walter is seen going into her bedroom at night. And so Josie makes this whole thing out that Walter, you know, just as Walter abused her.

[00:12:33] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: He's now kind of violating his daughter as well, and she's really concerned about it. And then the other daughter, Roxy, has left. She's run away. She's like, she's not in the picture during the majority of the story. Yes. And so in the end, we find out that Josie has killed her husband, Walter, her daughter in the hospital.

[00:12:57] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And then eventually, Kidnaps and [00:13:00] kills Alex's husband, Nathan. And so in the end, we find out that Josie is. still want a wanted person, but out free has not been caught, even though the whole country knows who she is. And then eventually sends a letter to Alex telling her that it was an accident that her husband died and that it's not really what she thinks.

[00:13:25] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And while this is all, while Josie is on the run. New information from Roxy and Aaron and, , people in her life, like new information comes to light making Alex understand, like, Oh, not everything that Josie told me was true or potentially none of it is true. And so basically Alex is left with. As a widow in the end, Josie is on the run and, , has yet to be found what a year later because in the end [00:14:00] they Alex ends up helping make a Netflix special about the whole thing, right?

[00:14:06] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And that looks documentary. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say too, that there is one. One little, scene in the book at the very end, I think it's where Josie is listening to someone on the train or where she's, she's in a public space and they're talking about her in this incident, in this , case, and she said.

[00:14:29] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Something about Alex being suspicious to like, Oh, but like, it seems like Alex probably has something to do with this. Right. , and so leaving the readers with like, what the fuck happened at the end. Yeah. Yeah. Great job. I would say, , and again, I definitely don't want to make this a podcast where like, Oh, we're gonna like, , but everything on our, on our ADHD, but I know for me kind of following a, like a long linear line of thoughts can be really challenging because my brain automatically wants to go [00:15:00] off on tangents and other things pop up as I'm speaking.

[00:15:02] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: So I think you did an excellent job. I do think it's something that we're both going to get better at as we go through this podcast. And I will also say, just full disclosure for me, I can't speak for you, Kelsey. , because ADHD also, , can make it a bit difficult with, , memory and remembering things.

[00:15:18] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I know I struggle with names a lot in general. And so I think for me to, as we go through these podcasts, I'm going to do my best to like keep track of the character's names and use them appropriately, but be aware, be aware, , lovely listeners that, , we, we might get, I will, I will speak for myself. I might get a little confused at times with names, but I'll do my best.

[00:15:37] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: , okay. So before we kind of like. Dive into this conversation and kind of get more of your thoughts, Kelsey. I did want to say, , why I asked Kelsey to read this particular book. So my thinking behind it, one is that for those of you who do enjoy , mysteries and thrillers. Lisa Jewel is a pretty well known, well established name in that genre.

[00:15:58] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: So I did want her to [00:16:00] read, , an author that, , is pretty widely recognized and that a lot of our listeners might be familiar with. , I also chose this book because it's, I believe, still her most recent book. I don't think another one has come out yet since then. We can double check that. Such a failure.

[00:16:15] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Moving on. , and then I also really liked the fact that one of the main characters in this book is a podcaster. And here we are starting a podcast about books and like how cool and kind of meta meta that is. Is that like, do people still say that? Is that like. Totally. I mean, maybe it might be millennials.

[00:16:33] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: But okay. I still use it. I still hear that. Okay. So I thought it'd be kind of better to talk on a book podcast about a book about a podcaster. , so that was a little bit of my, of my reasoning behind, and I did enjoy the book. I've read a lot of thrillers and it, at this point, it takes a lot to kind of surprise me or shock me or, , Keep me guessing until the end.

[00:16:53] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And this one did a pretty decent job. Is it my favorite thriller? No, but I thought it was enjoyable. Why can't I read your [00:17:00] favorite thriller? Because I haven't even built up to that. Okay. Like you don't just get like, you don't get the good stuff straight out the gate. Like you've got to earn it.

[00:17:11] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Okay. So it sounds like. Just in general, which is unsurprising, you did not like this book, but I do want to know the people want to know, I want to know, was there anything that you did like? About this book, the plot, the characters were like, okay, I'll, I'll give it to a man. I'll give her a little something.

[00:17:34] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: , yes, so definitely. It's not like, it's not the worst book I've ever read. Right. , so, You know, it started off on like a creepy vibe already, like you already knew like something's unsettling.

[00:17:51] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And I would say like the, you know, as a mystery thriller, like you have to set that stage. Right. So [00:18:00] yeah, it did give this the feeling of that was creepy or this is creepy. And I don't know why yet, and also when I was reading it, it did, it did. I wanted to know like what was going on and like wanted to get to the end.

[00:18:14] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: So it kept me, it wasn't like a boring book. I wouldn't say, , it kept me wanting to know what was going on. , Because that's the, that's the whole point of mysteries, right? It's like it's trying to intrigue you to like read further. Right. So, , yeah, so I would say it did that.

[00:18:36] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And I was texting you being like, what the fuck you are. You were, I was this. Why did this happen? Josie's stupid, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Why is she letting, why is Alex, Alex is stupid. Yeah. I was getting lots of updates as she was reading. It was very entertaining. So, okay. So we, you liked the fact that there was kind of this ominous.

[00:18:54] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: tone right from the beginning, the sense of unease, which, , yeah, I think is, is key to a [00:19:00] lot of good thrillers. And you also kept reading, which is good. You kept reading and that is important, especially for a book that you ultimately didn't like. I think, , let's start with the plot, I guess, like you had, you told me earlier that you thought it was predictable.

[00:19:18] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: , and that you were like, you saw the ending coming like a mile away. So you, and what did you mean by that? Did you mean that you actually saw Josie going as far as killing Alex's husband and him like, you know, Yeah. Dead. Okay. You did. Oh yeah. Specifically for that, like Nathan, I was like, Oh, she's going to kill him.

[00:19:40] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: There was a lot of lead up to, there was a lot of like sprinkles in of killing Nathan and killing her husband even the part that I didn't know. Cause I, because there was a part in the book where she told Nathan. No, not Nathan. Walter, her husband. [00:20:00] I'm going to tell Alex exactly what happened with Brooke, right?

[00:20:05] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And so I was trying to think about that and like, Oh, like who, we still don't know exactly what happened or who killed Brooke, but no, we do. Like Aaron says that Roxy killed Brooke. Wait, is that right? So at the end of the book. Like, we, it's established that, well, okay, Josie says, Josie says, like, that Roxy is the one who killed Brooke, and she covered for her.

[00:20:36] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And so that is one reason why, in her mind. , she still feels like she's a good person, , in spite of everything she's done, like she's like, but here, here's a good thing that I did. Like my daughter killed her friend and I helped cover it up so that, you know, she could go live her life. And so in spite of everything, like I'm not a bad person.

[00:20:57] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Yeah. But then what did, didn't [00:21:00] Aaron say that her mom killed Roxy? Or God Brooke, that again, can't keep my, I think so. I have to like go back and like, cause again, you've read this much more recently than I did quite some time, but I do, I, the one thing that I do remember coming out at the end is that, , it wasn't, , , like Walter wasn't involved in the murder.

[00:21:24] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Aaron was involved in the murder. Like it was definitely, but they were right. But with the fact that, Josie told Walter, I'm going to tell her everything. He knew what happened to the whole family. Yeah, exactly. That's, so that's my point is like, it was a family cover up rather than just like, We know exactly who killed her because Josie, we don't know what is real with her and true with Aaron too.

[00:21:54] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: She's not a reliable narrator. Yeah. Well, that's something I liked [00:22:00] about this book is that. And I remember, I believe it was Gone Girl. It was my first experience reading a book with like an unreliable narrator. I don't know, have you read Gone Girl? No. Okay. And that was my first experience with it. And I really liked it because as a reader, right, we're kind of wired to inherently just believe whatever the protagonist is telling us.

[00:22:22] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Like we're immediately kind of situated to be on their side, whatever they're saying is true and valid. And We're, we're cheering for them. And so for an author to flip the script on you, it really does kind of mess, it messes with you a bit in a really, , intriguing, compelling way, in my opinion. And so I think the one thing I liked about this book is even if you did think the plot was predictable in certain ways, the thing that overall is unpredictable is at the end of it, you still honestly, truly don't know who to believe and who is telling the truth and who is still.

[00:22:56] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: You know, fabricating things. And so I think that [00:23:00] also gives it a little bit of a, an intriguing edge compared to perhaps other thrillers where it's a bit more cut and dry. Yeah. , Because still, yeah, I think the thing that I will give this book is just that I still like wonder about like, okay, what's real, but I guess I land on.

[00:23:22] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: In the end, like in my opinion, I think that Alex did have something to do with it and Joe, like partnered with Josie because there's no way to kill Nathan. Oh yeah. That's my takeaway because like how the F this, this is the other thing that bothered me about the. Lot. And is that it's not realistic.

[00:23:47] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Everybody knew Josie's face and she's still out there free. Also like in the middle of crowds, like listening to other people talk about her, that's not, that's very un, [00:24:00] that's not probable. Okay. And so my only, the only reason I think one is because, , Alex, You know, is, is, you know, well off. She could have aided Josie in this escape, but also like, I don't know.

[00:24:21] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: She, the characters were pretty flat to me. So you could not tell what Alex was feeling really. , in my opinion, or Josie, like it was just, okay. Like they felt a bit two dimensional and not fully flushed out. Yes. And you don't also get true insight into like exactly how they're feeling. Like Josie, you see like random things, but yeah, that's how I felt throughout.

[00:24:52] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And so I felt like Alex in this, like, if you just read it flat, like with the details you get, Alex is [00:25:00] making so many stupid fucking decisions like that. I, I don't know who would make, why would you, why would you let this woman that you already are suspicious of into your home, not call the police and not, , help her get into a shelter.

[00:25:16] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: If that's what really was going on a DV situation, you would not let this person into your house, knowing full well that she was like , like hiding around your house and stealing Garbage. That's fucking weird to have that person continue to be in her life. And she had to constantly convince Nathan that it was going to be fine.

[00:25:38] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Yeah. And he was suspicious. Right. And so I feel like there was some sort of motive for Alex to be continuing to continue down this path. So, like, okay. So besides the podcast, I, two things that I'll kind of push back on, I hear what you're saying, but one, okay. So I do agree that like the interiority of the characters.

[00:25:58] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: is lacking to a certain [00:26:00] degree. And I do think we do get to know a bit more about Josie than Alex, which makes a lot of sense. But if you're trying to craft a novel in which the reader is not supposed to know for sure with any sort of certainty who is saying what and why and when and what's true and what's not, you do have to kind of pull a little bit of a veil over their interiority and their internal thoughts and emotions.

[00:26:24] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: To, to make it work, to just, to simply like for the function of a plot, like if we knew everything, I think that would kind of you know, blow the cover, so to speak of the plot, , that she's trying, the story that she's trying to tell perhaps. So that's one thing. I think the other thing, and this is the reason why I love thrillers, right?

[00:26:43] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: So when I was in high school, I took, , , an intro to psych course. And as part of the course, we did a unit on abnormal psych. Yeah, I know. , so we did this unit on abnormal psych and it's just really kind of studying the ways in which the human mind [00:27:00] can kind of veer so far. Away from from the norm, right?

[00:27:05] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: From what is expected of us from kind of proper behavior as is deemed by society, etc. And that really fascinated me. And I think thrillers do a great job of diving into. The ways in which human beings go wrong, go a little sideways, and it's easy on the outside to be like, Oh my gosh, if I was in that situation, I would never do that.

[00:27:26] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: But in actuality, people do dumb stuff all the time, right? For a variety of reasons, right? Depending on like their background, their experiences, their proclivities, their preferences, whatever. And so I like that, you know, it does dive into situations where it's easy for us from our little armchairs to be like, Oh my gosh, like her decisions make, no sense at all.

[00:27:50] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And like, why would you ever choose that? But like in reflecting on our own lives, lives of people, we know, especially depending on what the situation is like. Humans do weird shit, like, [00:28:00] all the time that is not logical, that doesn't make sense, that is potentially harmful to themselves and others, , and I like that thrillers explore that.

[00:28:10] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I like that it explores, like, the weird, dark, twisty side of humans. Like, that's the point. Do you find yourself reading books? With characters like this. Yeah. I'm really attracted to the item. Maybe there's something weird and dark and twisty in me, but like, I just didn't think it was that well thought out in my opinion.

[00:28:35] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And just because of that, like it did lacked in my opinion for that reason, because I think there's like, , suspenseful and, , what like psychological thrillers that are done really well that don't have to. be done the way that this book was done. And so, and so I've seen that and, , I guess I prefer that over, you know, [00:29:00] the way the style that this was written in and the characters were written because the other thing too is like keep in mind I read you know a lot of romance and fantasy like you want to like the characters in order to continue reading I hated the characters I didn't I didn't root for any of them I was like you could kill any of them and I wouldn't fucking care harsh god harsh seriously but like they weren't likable yeah none of the characters were likable yeah and that's the that's my Point, right?

[00:29:30] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Is that the type of reader I am and the type of books that I'm drawn to? I don't want to be annoyed with the characters throughout a book. It's not enjoyable to me. Even if the plot was like, Ooh, what's happening? It's overall. I don't want that. But I personally think there's something to be said for a book that doesn't have a hero.

[00:29:51] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And like, I understand like a lot of people don't. Find that appealing because like they want the good guy and they want somebody like clearly our good girl or good person [00:30:00] to cheer for and like, and I think, you know, I, I love to read and I've been reading my whole life. And so I think at some point it's nice to get something that's like out of the ordinary that makes you stop and think in question.

[00:30:12] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And so I love books like this. I'm like, yeah, it's not just like a whole home. Okay. Yeah. There's , the great protagonist. Yeah. Good for you. You're such a goody two shoes. It's like. Yeah, you're all kind of villains. Like you're all kind of villains and weird and kind of unlikable in different ways and make choices that I don't understand and agree with.

[00:30:30] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And I like that. I okay. So I actually, I don't mind that the thing is. There's a lot of books that I read that are like morally gray characters. I mean, we just read the ferryman. There's everyone in there is like, what the fuck did you do? But you still are kind of rooting for them because they're not stupid.

[00:30:53] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: These characters are stupid. Okay. All right. I mean, I definitely think there's no, [00:31:00] there's not even like intelligence, like in my opinion from these characters. And then even like at the beginning, like. It was really cringy to just thinking about because we still don't know why Aaron eats baby food. Yeah, we don't actually.

[00:31:15] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And it's like, yeah, shouldn't the again. Yeah, there should have been some intervention there that she got to this point. But all it is is she's just throwing a tray at the door with baby food. And that's all her daughter will eat. Yeah. Like, what the fuck? Yeah. That's fair. It's weird. And it's not well explained.

[00:31:37] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I will, like, I will give you that. , I mean, obviously I think that speaks more to, like, , Josie's, like, narcissism and, like, need for control and just, like, lack of care of others. She's like, whatever. Like, this is what you want. This is what you want. I'm not going to investigate. I'm not going to interrogate it.

[00:31:53] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I'm not going to be concerned about why this is the only thing that you're going to eat. I mean, I feel like maybe she does make some feeble, very [00:32:00] feeble attempts at, you know, To like figure out what's going on in her mind, but I will, I will give you that I, when I read this book and again, this is not by any means like my favorite thriller, but I, for sure, especially with Alex's character, there were multiple points.

[00:32:20] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: within the story when I was just like, really dude? Like, really? Like, and I, I will say that some of her choices because they were so illogical and or unbelievable, it did kind of take me out of the story. So I, I will fully give you that like points to you. I also was just like, It was a little too much to ask of the reader.

[00:32:40] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I think to be, Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. I'll go with this. Like this makes sense. Like, okay. , I think Lisa Jewell kind of pushed it a bit too far in that particular way. , but then again, at the same time, if Alex, or sorry, no, yeah. Alex isn't being completely kind of transparent with who [00:33:00] she is, what her motives are.

[00:33:01] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: There could be other reasons why, right? That she's letting Josie into her home. That are not clear to ask, like maybe, maybe. Okay. For example, right. This is just a theory, but because so again, so for folks who haven't read the book or need a refresher, like Josie and I'm sorry, my apologies, Alex podcaster and her husband, Nathan.

[00:33:21] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Don't have the best relationship. So he has a huge drinking problem. He often goes out on like these all night benders and comes home late. And so she's not really sure their marriage has been on the rocks and we haven't really talked about that. So she's delusional in the fact that it is. Yes. And she's trying to maintain this illusion that her life is grand all as well.

[00:33:40] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And it's not that bad. Yeah. And so with that in mind, right. Potentially if Alex is not, , kind of, everything we think she is, which is kind of just like this, you know, woman who's trying to make the best of it. Yeah. Successful woman who's trying to make the best of the situation. If in fact she is harboring, which I think is [00:34:00] very valid resentment towards.

[00:34:03] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Nathan, then maybe introducing this wild card of Josie into the mix is somehow a way, I don't know, a really like, I don't even know what the word I'm looking for is, but a way to kind of get back at her husband. Like by like, you know, because Joseph takes over their lives, right? Totally. And it becomes like Alex's priority and fixation, like it goes both ways, right?

[00:34:30] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: They're both kind of fixated on each other. And her husband, as you said, is not okay with sharing his home with this, this woman. And so even wanting her in his house, yeah, and his life. And so maybe it's kind of. A little Alex sticking it to the man, and so, and we don't know that, right, that's not stated, but since we don't fully know what's going on with her, like, maybe that is the reason why, I don't know, just a theory, just a thought, , to explain some of her, kind of more bizarre thoughts.

[00:34:59] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: [00:35:00] Behavior in the book. Totally. Yeah. Yeah.. I don't know. Yeah. I think that's where we're at. Was there anything? Okay. So like, was there anything, I know you don't read thrillers often and this particular genre and you know, the way that things are structured, was there anything that surprised you about the book in terms of either its content?

[00:35:22] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Again, maybe the plot structure. So I'll say, okay, something that I found a lot in the one star reviews, an issue that people had with it, because I think also this was pushing it for readers. This plot line was, the fact that. Lisa Jewel creates this like, what is it called this, , recovery arc or, wow, God, a character arc for Walter.

[00:35:50] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: First he's seen as, , first he's seen as this pedophile, right? And then she gives him this like. [00:36:00] Redemption arc. That's what it is of like, no, actually Josie's the manipulator at 13 fucking years old. And at 16, she seduced him. Like that is really fucking weird to put in a book. Like that's a, it's a little too far fetched to, , and also, so.

[00:36:21] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: It's problematic. , I would say, and so I wouldn't even say that that was like my, my number one complaint. It wasn't, but some people felt like that was way too far. , that was their number one complaint about the book. , But yeah, that is, that is interesting. Like why did she choose to have a redemption arc for a pedophile?

[00:36:43] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Yeah. Like why? Yeah. Cause I feel like it takes away from the actual plot in my opinion. Yeah. , rather than add to it. Yeah. And also again, just to kind of clarify things for listeners, and you can correct me Kelsey if I'm wrong, because you've done it more [00:37:00] recently. , it, it, we find out later in the story that actually Walter was, , Josie's mother's boyfriend.

[00:37:09] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And so they were in a relationship and then essentially Josie conspired to kind of make him hers. Yeah. And, and that's how her mother describes it. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Mother's the one saying this about Josie. Yeah. Her daughter. So here's the other thing though, right? That, and I, this is a tricky, this is kind of a tricky situation, right?

[00:37:33] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: On the one hand, yeah, like we don't want the message of this story to be like, blame kind of the victim, blame the child in these situations when like the adult is the one who has the power, especially when it's kind of a male female dynamic on top of that. But at the same time, it does make me think of, , you know, different stories about children.

[00:37:57] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Right, who are [00:38:00] really manipulative or really narcissistic or have these kind of, and it could be abnormal psych, it could be just kind of behavioral things where they're acting in ways that are like really problematic. And because they're children, we, you know, , kind of excuse it away or ignore it. , Or, you know, try to make it into something else, but there's a lot of, of, and again, I'm gosh, I'm not a psych expert in any way, but there's, there's plenty of like case studies and situations in which children are capable, , depending on, , their, their mental state.

[00:38:34] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: , if there are mental health issues at play, , different things where kids connect to really problematic ways. , and. I think there are, there are, there are movies, there are books about, and I know Hollywood can sensationalize these things and potentially in books as well. And ways are also problematic, but it does make me, yeah, it makes me think about like how, yeah, how [00:39:00] much of Josie's behavior as a child.

[00:39:04] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: How much do we have to, , kind of subscribe responsibility to her if she is someone who has kind of these deep seated problematic behaviors based on her, her brain chemistry based on, does that make sense? Am I, yeah, it makes sense. I just don't think that it fit into. And if she wanted to take it that way, she could have made it a bit more, , obvious just because like when her mom was describing these things, she basically was just like, you just don't know, Josie, she's jealous.

[00:39:39] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: She's she, it was really like. Very surface level rather than giving like actual examples of things that happened, like the mom and also like when children have like deep seated issues, oftentimes it's from trauma, right? And, , whether in the womb or whether [00:40:00] from parenting and, , I fully am in a stance of like, that is a parent's responsibility.

[00:40:08] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: If you're seeing these things when they're an infant, a child, right? Then it is your responsibility to get therapy for them, for the family, for yourself, get specialists to help this child. All Josie's mom did was fucking blame her at 13 years old for stealing her boyfriend. That's disgusting and gross.

[00:40:29] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And I think it's, I, I think it just took away from the plot. Because if it, if she did have issues when she was a child, like that could have been part of the plot, but really it was just this weird sexualized thing about a 13 year old girl , and the mom being, what I got from the mom is like jealousy, obviously.

[00:40:53] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And then just maybe not an understanding of like how to take care of a child [00:41:00] or how to care for Josie specifically as her child, , it's like in , that ended up itself, I think is like a fair statement to make. It's not, I don't like it, it's uncomfortable, but there's a lot of parents of children who have.

[00:41:17] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Behavioral struggles and challenges, et cetera, who either don't have the means or the ability are the wherewithal or the knowledge to address them. And they do kind of slip through their cracks because As far as we know, right? , Josie's mom is a single mom, right? Raising this daughter in like a housing development and kind of doing the best she can.

[00:41:35] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: So again, not trying to like make this better necessarily, but in the larger conversation, like they're for a multitude of reasons, people might have not have access to those resources. They might not have the means like those things cost money. Oftentimes they require insurance. And so, yeah, in this book, I don't know, right?

[00:41:54] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: We don't know exactly, but I do think I do. Ultimately, I'm saying I do agree with you. I am also a little bit playing devil's [00:42:00] advocate because that's what we're here for. , but yeah, I do think I, I, it, it feels uncomfortable to lay the blame solely at the feet of this like 13 year old girl and be like, she's the one who seduced this, like, well, I don't even know how, was he in his late 30s or early 40s like in his 30s, I think.

[00:42:19] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Yeah, at least in his 30s. Yeah, it was like a big age range. Yeah, because he was with her Exactly. Her mom beforehand. But it also too, like, it makes me wonder about Walter's own mental state and maturity level because totally like what, 30 something year old one is that sway to manipulated by a child, essentially.

[00:42:41] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Yes. And then stays with them for decades, has two children with them. And, , and we find out, you know, ultimately that she's really abusive, ultimately kills him. Like, I feel like there's something amiss with him. Like there's something. Right. Missing. Yeah. , because I, again, [00:43:00] and again, leads back to that unbelievability factor.

[00:43:03] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Mm hmm. It's like what kind of person who already has so much power just due to their age and their gender is going to kind of sit around and take that for decades. Right. I think it might've made the story a bit better, stronger, more believable if they had spent some time explaining why Walter was the way he is.

[00:43:23] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: You know, like, was he really that afraid of? Josie. Yeah. And I think if those like plot details or those character details were added, it would have enhanced the book for me. Yeah. I think so too. Even if it's still like, Oh, ominous about like what actually happened, , and who Josie actually is. Like, I feel like it could have been better.

[00:43:47] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Like you saying, like under getting to understand the characters wise and why they're making certain decisions. , Yeah. would have furthered the book in my opinion. , yeah, it leaving [00:44:00] it so open ended and unbelievable. Yeah. Doesn't help a reader and yeah, for me. Yeah. I think, yeah, I, I, I can agree with that.

[00:44:10] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I think she did herself a disservice by like, I understand why she left a lot out. Cause I understand. Yeah. How it was lending itself to the plot she was trying to craft. But I think at the same time, she kind of shot herself in the foot too. , because those details would have made a stronger story ultimately.

[00:44:29] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: , if she had included them. So yeah, I would, I will, I will also give you that. I would, I would agree with you, , about that for sure. , yeah, yeah. Any other like, That's those are the major ones. I think I definitely wanted to make sure we touched on the strange plot line of pedophilia. And I'm glad you brought that up actually, because, , in just in terms of like content warnings and trigger warnings for folks who might want to read this book, pedophilias, definitely.

[00:44:56] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: a thing that happens. There's domestic violence. [00:45:00] There is murder. Yeah. , I don't think I'm missing any other key. I don't think so. Like, like they talk about sexual assault, but it's not actually happening in the book. So I guess specifically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True. , between, , Walter and Aaron, although we find out it's not the case, it's definitely into that.

[00:45:21] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Quite specifically by Judy, which again, so weird. Like, I don't know if that lens, again, not believable in the, in the whole like overall plot is just that like, Oh, actually Walter's a really great dad. And he just wants to be there for his daughter, Aaron only in this particular way and not help her like with anything else.

[00:45:41] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Like she can't leave her room. Right. Like that's how bad, I don't know her anxiety or just her life in general. We don't know. Cause we don't her mother, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like just like crippling fear of her mom. And so it's, yeah. Very interesting. [00:46:00] Yeah. I mean, I, for me, I think. Is this Lisa Jewel's best work?

[00:46:07] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: No, I would. Some people would disagree with you. I know. I know. It's a page turner for sure. , but it's definitely not something that's like top of the charts for me.

, I do like some of the things that she dives into. but yeah, I would agree in that it's not like the best thriller I've ever read. We'll get there. We're going to get to some better ones. I hope so. Just nothing like horror. I don't want horror. I don't read horror. Yeah, no, I don't read horror.

[00:46:33] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I will read things that can be creepy or unsettling. Yeah, , but I rarely read horror, so don't worry about that. We won't be diving into that. Thank goodness. On this, on this podcast. , I would say in terms of as we're like, wrapping up the discussion, in terms of final recommendations, since I'm the one who had you read the book, would I recommend this book to others?

[00:46:50] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: , I think if you are overall a huge thriller fan, as I am, I think , again, it's [00:47:00] something that I would recommend picking up in a pinch at the airport. You know, you're going for like a day at the beach and just need something to keep you occupied that you can zip through. , if you're looking for like quality thriller, this particular Lisa Jewell book is not for you, I would say.

[00:47:15] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: That would be like my recommendation. I don't know what your recommendation, Kelly, I'm sure your recommendation is just like avoid it like the plagues. If you have similar tastes to me, where you're reading fantasy, romance, , I even read like sci fi sometimes like and like dystopian type books. It is not a quality book.

[00:47:40] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: That is what I'm going to say. So no, I don't recommend it. Okay. Yeah. So that's fair. I expected that. So, , since this again, this is our first lit it or quit it episode. One of the things that we're going to be doing at the end of each of these episodes, just to like, Wrap [00:48:00] things up is to read to you, , some of the best and worst.

[00:48:07] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: , book critiques, specifically from Goodreads, because we both love Goodreads, we use it all the time. So, , I'm going to be reading, , yeah, critiques that are kind of praising the novel, obviously, because that's the side that I'm on more or less, and then Kelsey is going to be reading a couple of funny, , , critiques from folks who hated the book, some one star reviews.

[00:48:26] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Yes. And so this section of the episode is called literally the best or literally the worst. Again, we are just going to like, Go so hard on lit. Like we're anytime we can incorporate lit. Yeah. We're going to let the shit out of this podcast. So you will see a lot of references to that. So we're just, I think, go back and forth and read some of the, , funny, interesting, , curious, , feedback that we found and I'm, I'm going to do my best.

[00:48:55] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: To read these reviews as they were written [00:49:00] with like the capitalization punctuation. So I'm literally reading them as they're written. I'm not like adding weird emphasis. This is how the author of these I love that idea. Okay, you go first. Okay, I'll read my first one, then I'll send it over to you,. , Sharon.

[00:49:15] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: From good read. So this is literally the best, one of the good, one of the good. Feedbacks. Feedbacks. Do I don't think we plural that word. Reviews. Word reviews. Thank you, God. Okay, here we go. Sharon says, could not put it down. Very few books caused me to wake up at 2:00 AM to finish reading, so thank you Sharon.

[00:49:34] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Oh, very funny. Okay, so milani says. None of this is interesting. , I love damn lon love. I mean, I love how pointed and concise it is. So kudos. Kudos to that was, yes. Great, great. Well said. Well said. Okay, let me, , let me pull up my next one. Okay, here we go. , so I, I'm gonna butcher this person's. name. It looks like Nilofer, [00:50:00] Nilofer. That's the best I can do. And she, he, they said, , I'm speechless after reading this bone chilling, dark, twisty, mind bending thriller, which is one of the best works of Lisa Jewell.

[00:50:12] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: So if you needed an adjective riddled review, five star review, there you have it. Wow. Wow. , our next one from Mimi. It's kind of going to be loud. Okay. Oh God. Stop glorifying pedophiles. Okay. I mean, fair. That's, that is fair. Cause as you said, I think she'd be, yeah, because he does become like this sympathetic redeemed character.

[00:50:42] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And I don't think he deserved that really. No, absolutely not. No. I'll give it, I'll give it to that person. All right. Emily booked up says Lisa Jewel is back with a banger, baby. And this might just be my favorite of hers yet. I love Emily [00:51:00] Bookdup's enthusiasm and her use of capitalization. That's so sad for her.

[00:51:03] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: She needs to read better books. I, I kind of agree with you a little bit. I do not have this level of enthusiasm for the book, but I appreciate Emily Bookdup's enthusiasm. Okay. Our next one from Kiwi Shark. It's a little longer. So just FYI. All right. Kiwi shark says this book had several directions it could have taken. The author chose the one where she framed the 13 to 16 year old as the abusive aggressor and the 40 plus year old. groomer as the victim. It framed the child as the one who was abusive and neglected instead of the mother who clearly hated her and loudly resented her for even existing.

[00:51:45] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I don't even know what to say. There's so much wrong with this book that I don't even feel like getting into it. On top of all this, All of that, the book was boring. I will never read from this author again. I mean, [00:52:00] as we discussed, those are very valid points. I will, I will absolutely give that to her. So that's fair.

[00:52:06] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And I, but I'm also like sad that this is like, Well, I, I shouldn't assume that this is their first encounter with Lisa Jewel, but yeah, if that's like the one and only book of hers that they've read, I'm, it kind of sounds like it, but I mean, I would prefer not to read Lisa Jewel again. Well, I don't have a choice really, but we'll see.

[00:52:26] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I have one of her books on my shelf. , so we'll see, we'll see if I make you read it. There's, there's, there's better ones out there. If there's better ones, then I can't compare. All right. So my last one, so brace yourself. This has lots of capitalizations and plenty of exclamation marks. So here we go.

[00:52:44] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Dana says, OMG, dare I say this may just be Lisa Jewel's best book yet. I'm a huge fan and have read 11 of her books so far. This was just, wow, so twisty. , as a [00:53:00] very expressive person myself, I once again want to just like shout out Dana for all of those exclamation points. and capitalizations. , kudos.

[00:53:08] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I'm so sad that she thought it was so twisty. She has better books in her life. Yeah, I've definitely read twistier ones. And I don't think if you've read 11 of Lisa Jewel's books, , I don't actually think it's the best one, but, , in general, I do like Lisa Jewel. So I will, I will agree with her on that.

[00:53:24] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I read a YA that was twistier than this. I've also read YA's that are twistier than this actually. But, you know. , okay. So my last, , good. Reads review comes from an the author tried way too hard to fit her characters actions into the story Emotionless and flat characters and a massive trigger warning storyline that leads me to believe the author wanted an inflammatory storyline so people would talk about it.

[00:53:54] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I loathe stupid and weak female characters and Alex, who was [00:54:00] this successful woman, so we are told, made the stupidest decisions in order to advance the plotline. I think honestly, that is the heart of it. Really? That's just like a very concise cutting. Nice job, Ann. I agree with you. Oh my gosh. I don't want to agree because this is like supposed to be like my side versus your side.

[00:54:21] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And I don't want to like be like, yes, you're right. But, , yeah, I think you're kind of right. And honestly, I'm like a lot of fronts. Yeah, fair what you said, definitely fair. And I will say that this book, and this is honestly can be a problem with a lot of thrillers because of the nature of the genre, the author is, well, From my perspective, the authors are often focused so much on the plot that sometimes the characters really can be underdeveloped.

[00:54:51] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: It's like about that's fair. Yeah. That's probably really hard to write to be honest. Sure. Yeah. The characters can often suffer. And then because you do want [00:55:00] that shock value. Yeah. Right. You're like, okay, what can I possibly say or do that's going to get people want to keep reading and to, to talk about this book after and like, you know, keep reading my next book.

[00:55:09] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And they have, I think because of the nature of the genre, they have a bit more pressure than perhaps other, , authors to do that. And I think especially, I mean, this is like, yeah, what her 12th book, I don't know, like, damn, she's starting to feel that like, okay, like what's next, what else can I possibly do now?

[00:55:27] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: That's going to like shock readers after having done this. For a long time. So I, I will say I can't imagine what it's like to be an author in general, but like an author of thrillers and mysteries because you do have to keep it fresh. You've got to keep people guessing. You got to surprise the reader.

[00:55:40] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And for folks like me who read a ton of thrillers and we kind of seen it all quote unquote, like, what are you going to do to make me be like, Oh, Gosh, like gasp and surprise at the end. So there's a lot of pressure. Fair. Fair. Yeah. Awesome. Got to the end of our first episode. Our first lit it or quit it [00:56:00] episode.

[00:56:01] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Love it. Thank you for sticking it out if you made it to the end. We hope you enjoyed it. We know podcasting and learning how to podcast is a journey. And I have a feeling we're going to look back on these episodes, you know, And a couple of months and be like, Oh my gosh, do you remember when we were such baby podcasters, look how far we've grown, but we hope that like that journey of growth is still enjoyable and exciting and interesting for all of you.

[00:56:27] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: We hope so. , so again, as we wrap up, just a reminder, , about our socials, if you want to follow us on Instagram, it's lit vibes only underscore podcast, tick talk and YouTube are both lit vibes only podcast. So be sure to follow us there. And, , see what's, what's happening not only that, be sure, because we are a new podcast, be sure to review us and rate us on wherever you listen to your podcast, because that helps us be seen and known.

[00:56:57] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Unless you're going to give us a one star review, don't do [00:57:00] that. Pretend we don't exist. One of the things that just reminded me, made me think, one of the things we would love to do as we're building out this podcast, especially for our literature episodes, like we want to hear from you. Like, I want to know who's on my side.

[00:57:14] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: I want to know who agrees with me, who has similar tastes on the right side of history. And folks who are wrong and on Kelsey's side. So please be sure. It doesn't really sound like you're very strong in your opinion, though. I am strong in my opinion that I like, that I like thrillers. We'll, we'll, we'll stick with that.

[00:57:31] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: And, , Not this particular thriller. Not this particular thriller, perhaps. I feel like the more that I thought about, the more like I was, okay, fine. You're like, okay, Kelsey, you make some good points. Kelsey made some good points. Some of the people in your reviews made some good points. But for sure, we'd love to hear from you.

[00:57:46] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: Like we want this really to be a community venture and to, to hear from our listeners and what you're reading and what you love and what you don't love. So please be sure to also that in your, in your feedback, you can DM us, you can comment on our [00:58:00] videos, comment on social media, all of the things because we're new, we'll see it all.

[00:58:07] GMT20240816-002333_Recording_640x360: So we'll have like two comments probably at this point, we'll take it, we'll, we'll take it. Two's better than zero. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for tuning in and, , joining us for this Litter Quitted episode and we will see you on Mondays. Next Monday. Bye.